First PH (EP15) run

ecxtimmy

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Hey,

Running my first PH cycle, going with EP15STANE by Olympus Labs.
-Running 30/45/45/45/45/45

PCT
-Nolva 20/20/10/10


I know I need a SERM for a good 6 week EPI run, but do I NEED any on cycle support or addition PCT (Sup3r pct or Ar1macare).

I've seen DAA recommend as well as erase or reduce XT after 3rd week of PCT.

Any help or input would be great, thx.
 
rnoorani

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You will need liver support while on cycle and pct. You'll want a cortisol blocker 3rd week of pct. When running epi an ai isn't really needed for pct but good to have on hand - peronally I run aromasin and nolva on my pct (even on an epi pct), even though I know its overkill. Lastly, I don't believe arimistane would be an effective ai.
 

ecxtimmy

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is Liv.52(livercare) a sufficient Liver support for on / post cycle
 
g0hardorgohom

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is Liv.52(livercare) a sufficient Liver support for on / post cycle
Some people run Epi without any liver support but liver is not the only thing you should be worried about. AR1MACARE Pro is a great all-in-one cycle support product so I'd definitely go with it. No need to take it during PCT but I'd pick up a bottle of SUP3R PCT to be used with Nolva.
 
MrKleen73

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You will need liver support while on cycle and pct. You'll want a cortisol blocker 3rd week of pct. When running epi an ai isn't really needed for pct but good to have on hand - peronally I run aromasin and nolva on my pct (even on an epi pct), even though I know its overkill. Lastly, I don't believe arimistane would be an effective ai.
This is pretty close to right but not quite. You wont need an AI on cycle with EPI, but you definitely need an AI in PCT. EPI does not get rid of estro it blocks it from the receptors. So no estrogenic activity can really take place. However once off and your own test starts to produce you will have an abundance of aromatase enzyme in your system because your body has been trying to create estro to balance things out. What this does is convert most of the new test into estro and you end up with estrogen rebound. That is why you need and AI in the latter part of PCT even if the compound was not an aromatizable one.
 
rnoorani

rnoorani

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This is pretty close to right but not quite. You wont need an AI on cycle with EPI, but you definitely need an AI in PCT. EPI does not get rid of estro it blocks it from the receptors. So no estrogenic activity can really take place. However once off and your own test starts to produce you will have an abundance of aromatase enzyme in your system because your body has been trying to create estro to balance things out. What this does is convert most of the new test into estro and you end up with estrogen rebound. That is why you need and AI in the latter part of PCT even if the compound was not an aromatizable one.
Interesting wasnt aware it is needed, always was told I was crazy for running it. I run aromasin weeks 3 to 5 of PCT - week 3 @ 25mg ED; wk 4 @ 12.5 ED; wk 5 12.5 EOD.

Your thoughts/critique would be nice As you are one of the few on my side in this. Thanks.
 

ecxtimmy

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Interesting wasnt aware it is needed, always was told I was crazy for running it. I run aromasin weeks 3 to 5 of PCT - week 3 @ 25mg ED; wk 4 @ 12.5 ED; wk 5 12.5 EOD.

Your thoughts/critique would be nice As you are one of the few on my side in this. Thanks.

Very curious about this as well. I was going to post anyways.

I've been doing some more research and almost every post I can find about a solo 6 week EPI run says that an AI is not needed, true? Do I need to pick up some aromasin, I was going to pick some up with my Nolva just to have on hand.

I'm also curious about an OTC AI such as Formestane or Armistane. I know Olympus labs has TRANSform, BLR has Formeron, and then there's Armistane such as OG Erase.

Any input would be great. THX!!!!
 
Wolfy3d2000

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Very curious about this as well. I was going to post anyways. I've been doing some more research and almost every post I can find about a solo 6 week EPI run says that an AI is not needed, true? Do I need to pick up some aromasin, I was going to pick some up with my Nolva just to have on hand. I'm also curious about an OTC AI such as Formestane or Armistane. I know Olympus labs has TRANSform, BLR has Formeron, and then there's Armistane such as OG Erase. Any input would be great. THX!!!!
I'm actually interested in this myself. Bump for selfish reasons.
 
g0hardorgohom

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AI is not usually needed during the cycle but rebound gyno may happen post cycle. OTC AI like Arimistane may be enough (I'd run SUP3R PCT at 4/4/3/3/2/1 with your SERM of choice) but it's always a good idea to have more potent AI like TransFORM or even arimidex/letro on hand just in case.
 
rnoorani

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AI is not usually needed during the cycle but rebound gyno may happen post cycle. OTC AI like Arimistane may be enough (I'd run SUP3R PCT at 4/4/3/3/2/1 with your SERM of choice) but it's always a good idea to have more potent AI like TransFORM or even arimidex/letro on hand just in case.
I was under the impression that using a Type II AI (letro) while on SERM isnt all that effective. That's why I have been using Aromasin (Type I AI) during PCT. Here is a good article (w/ legit references) that summarize my thoughts behind this rationale:
http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/aromasin-nolvadex-pct.html

So GoHard, my questions to you are:
1. Am I mistaken (or have I misinterpretted) anout letro's usage during PCT (letro is so much more economical, so would love going that route)? (any articles would be nice)

2. Patrick Arnold has questioned the effectiveness of arimistane (but is intrigued by it), but has not totally dismissed it, as he has stated more research into the compound is needed. Further, I get skeptical of legal OTC non-steroidal AI - so, from your experience how effective is it? or do you use it as a preventative measure until somethin flares up during PCT?

Please do not view this as a criticism of your advise. I have much respect for the advise and assistance you have provided to others on this forum (I pretty much did what you said when I did my first cycle and it was wonderful) - I just want more of your insights on this AI (prescription or OTC steroidal) during PCT thing - you can find thousands of conflicting stuff on the whole aromasin usefullness.

Thanks!
 
g0hardorgohom

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I was under the impression that using a Type II AI (letro) while on SERM isnt all that effective. That's why I have been using Aromasin (Type I AI) during PCT. Here is a good article (w/ legit references) that summarize my thoughts behind this rationale: http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/aromasin-nolvadex-pct.htmlSo GoHard, my questions to you are:1. Am I mistaken (or have I misinterpretted) anout letro's usage during PCT (letro is so much more economical, so would love going that route)? (any articles would be nice)2. Patrick Arnold has questioned the effectiveness of arimistane (but is intrigued by it), but has not totally dismissed it, as he has stated more research into the compound is needed. Further, I get skeptical of legal OTC non-steroidal AI - so, from your experience how effective is it? or do you use it as a preventative measure until somethin flares up during PCT?Please do not view this as a criticism of your advise. I have much respect for the advise and assistance you have provided to others on this forum (I pretty much did what you said when I did my first cycle and it was wonderful) - I just want more of your insights on this AI (prescription or OTC steroidal) during PCT thing - you can find thousands of conflicting stuff on the whole aromasin usefullness. Thanks!
No! I too prefer Aromasin. Letro is like a last resort if gyno happens and anything else doesn't work. It's much more potent than Aromasin - letro is harsh stuff.
 
MrKleen73

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TYpically an effective OTC AI is enough to prevent estro rebound, my favorite OTC AI is Formestane found in TransForm among others. However you could definitely use a research or prescription based AI as well. An AI does not help increase Testosterone in the presence of a SERM, and really there is not a lot of reason to use one the first week or two during PCT. That being said when you are looking at an all in one PCT product there are more thing to take into consideration than just the AI in there. There are other natural ingredients to boost production and free test. Those are important in PCT for sure. Also in Sup3r PCT the AI is also very anti-catabolic by limiting cortisol which is the #1 reason for loss of muscle gains during PCT. So for the particular PCT product in question I would still recommend starting it no later than the 2nd week of PCT when the cortisol levels really begin to peak.
 
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