First Big Boy Cycle

[saywutrly]

After a couple of months using peptides, I've gotten over my aversion to needles and can move to larger ones. I've planned my first injectable cycle with my brother who just had his first win in a mid-heavy class at a local show. I would also like to get the appointment of the esteemed gentlemen here. I have done one 4andro/epiandro cycle and one cycle of epistane/Max-LMG with no issues and have finished my PCT and a nice break since my last cycle.

Week 1-7 250mg test blend twice weekly (sustanon 250 clone)
Week 8-15 375mg sustanon twice weekly
Week 3-15 250iu HCG twice weekly
Week 1-15 exemestane 12.5mg EoD (increase if necessary)
PCT week 1-4 toremifene 60mg ed
PCT week 4 GNRH 100mcg once
PCT week 5-8 toremifene 30mg ed

I will have standard support supps, liver, prostate, blood pressure, multivitamins, and my extensive list of preventative stuff I use on-cycle.

One last question. Would it be useless to kick-start with 4-6 weeks of epistane? I have some leftover. Cheers, brothers!!

 

[saywutrly]

BamBam0319 I know you know your IM stuff. How does this look?

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

That pct is too much, you don't need triptorelin if you run standard pct

 

[saywutrly]

I've read of it being an adjunct to PCT. Do you mean that just one magic shot of the GNRH and I don't need any SERM?

 

[rascal14]

I don't know anything about Triptorelin, but everything looks good. Look into Aromasin for PCT.

Typically a kickstart is to get things going before the test is fully kicked in. Sust should get you going pretty quickly, and epistane doesn't really shine for a couple of weeks itself. But, you can still run the Epistane if you want because why not? It's really up to you. It will add to the cycle but l don't think it will do the job as a true kickstart for your purposes.

 

[jakz]

I would inject sust 3 x a week. Love sust.

 

[saywutrly]

rascal14 I'm planning exem/aromasin for my on cycle AI. Should I carry it into PCT? And sounds good on the epi. I just can't think of anything else to do with it. All my buddies who aren't scared of gear are all way past me, and I wouldn't feel right selling them to someone I didn't know because the seals are split, had one at work and one at home.
jakz the way I understood the shortest ester shouldn't clear for three days. Is there a benefit to going 3x a week?

As always, thanks to everyone for your help. Love the camaraderie on this forum!

 

[jakz]

It just feels better for me somehow. You don't have to pin it 3x a week, but it will keep levels stable.

 

[rascal14]

rascal14 I'm planning exem/aromasin for my on cycle AI. Should I carry it into PCT? And sounds good on the epi. I just can't think of anything else to do with it. All my buddies who aren't scared of gear are all way past me, and I wouldn't feel right selling them to someone I didn't know because the seals are split, had one at work and one at home.
jakz the way I understood the shortest ester shouldn't clear for three days. Is there a benefit to going 3x a week?

As always, thanks to everyone for your help. Love the camaraderie on this forum!

My most previous PCT was the best I have had and the only real difference was the addition of Aromasin, and it was also my longest and hardest cycle that included Tren Ace. I ran Clomid, Nolva, Aromasin, and OTC test boosters. Aromasin helps raise free test by lowering SHBG and also increase IGF-1 which is reduced by Nolva.

If I were you, I'd save the Epistane and use it as a finisher. This way you can use the first 10 weeks or so to get a feel for test by itself and see how you react to it. Also, remember to wait 2 weeks after your last pin to start PCT. You could run Epistane weeks 12-17 and start PCT the day after your last Epistane dose.

Great job on doing research and setting up a correct cycle, you're gonna love it.

 

[Dma378]

I would inject sust 3 x a week. Love sust.

This. You don't want the ester to completely clear before you pin again. For Sust an easy protocol is Mon-Wed-Fri. Adjust your total per pin to account for your desired weekly total.

Also don't start pct for 3 weeks after last injection of Sust. That Undec ester is very long compared to Cyp and E

I like the idea of the Epistane kicker. Like Rascal said, you'll likely feel the Sust first, but Epistane is a mild "silent" gainer and in my opinion...why not??!!

 

[rascal14]

This. You don't want the ester to completely clear before you pin again. For Sust an easy protocol is Mon-Wed-Fri. Adjust your total per pin to account for your desired weekly total.

Also don't start pct for 3 weeks after last injection of Sust. That Undec ester is very long compared to Cyp and E

I like the idea of the Epistane kicker. Like Rascal said, you'll likely feel the Sust first, but Epistane is a mild "silent" gainer and in my opinion...why not??!!

I completely forgot about Undec in Sust.

I'd actually probably still go almost three weeks even with cyp next time.. I felt like two weeks was a little too soon, but that could just be me.

 

[saywutrly]

Right on!! Thanks everyone for helping polish this cycle. I'll use the epi as a finisher and I'll continue the aromasin all through PCT. I have some natty test boosters for PCT as well.

Would it be too much to just go right for 750mg a week the whole time to avoid having to split 500 into three doses? In the past, I've tolerated AAS quite well and always wished I'd started higher.

 

[Dma378]

Right on!! Thanks everyone for helping polish this cycle. I'll use the epi as a finisher and I'll continue the aromasin all through PCT. I have some natty test boosters for PCT as well.

Would it be too much to just go right for 750mg a week the whole time to avoid having to split 500 into three doses? In the past, I've tolerated AAS quite well and always wished I'd started higher.

Relatively simple to split. I would go .8 - .8 - .8 = 600mg

For a few weeks anyways.

 

[saywutrly]

Relatively simple to split. I would go .8 - .8 - .8 = 600mg

For a few weeks anyways.

Duh I'm sorry. It didn't cross my mind to just go over a little that way. Good thing I demonstrated intelligence elsewhere in this process lol. Thanks again, brother! I'll get started on this tonight. I'm definitely excited for it after seeing what just the peptides could do.

 

[Dma378]

Duh I'm sorry. It didn't cross my mind to just go over a little that way. Good thing I demonstrated intelligence elsewhere in this process lol. Thanks again, brother! I'll get started on this tonight. I'm definitely excited for it after seeing what just the peptides could do.

Right on man. Thinking of updating in here?

 

[saywutrly]

For sure. I actually have to update a previous thread as well to let someone know that the LMG didn't kill my motivation. I just ended up having to move so I've been put of the loop on here for awhile.

 

[criticalbench]

1. You need to keep a steady dose of test throughout or you are asking for trouble. Don't increase your dose midway, test has a long half life that you are using.

2. Dose your test 3x weekly.

3. Dose aromasin daily, 6.25mg. Daily doses are always far superior, aromasin does not have a long half life.

4. Hcg is fine

5. Your pct is not designed for trip to be included and it's obvious you do not understand its use which I understand because it is quite tricky.

6. I'd replace Torem with clomid.

 

[saywutrly]

criticalbench thanks for the reply, man! Responses are inline since I'm used to doing this at work.

1. You need to keep a steady dose of test throughout or you are asking for trouble. Don't increase your dose midway, test has a long half life that you are using.

I was not aware this was an issue. A midway increase has been part of my cycles. Should I carry the ~600mg throughout or start a little higher?

2. Dose your test 3x weekly.

Definitely will do this.

3. Dose aromasin daily, 6.25mg. Daily doses are always far superior, aromasin does not have a long half life.

I didn't find this info the last time I used aromasin either, so thank you. I just carried over my methodology from adex.

4. Hcg is fine

Yay, research.

5. Your pct is not designed for trip to be included and it's obvious you do not understand its use which I understand because it is quite tricky.

The trip inclusion was based upon research and asking locals. I was to understand that it was just something to kick-start your balls at the start of PCT after the esters had all cleared. I read multiple places that just a single 100mcg dose was acceptable no more than three times a year. What did I miss?

6. I'd replace Torem with clomid.

I've used a clomid/nolva combo in the past and then used torem for my last cycle and had less sides and a better-feeling PCT. I've also read that it has less chance of causing cancer and so forth down the road. Is this personal preference or supported by data? I will always listen when I've missed something in my prep research. I just like to know why I'm listening.

 

[saywutrly]

Okay so I'm underway and everything is good so far, save for one thing. The gear seems dosed well, it has been starting at me with the libido, endurance slightly increased, slightly better pump, dash of confidence.

My one issue - are these injections supposed to hurt a few days after the fact? I used my two delts for the first two and try are still quite sore. It doesn't happen upon injection. I can almost not feel that at all. Neither hurt till the following morning. It's kind of like a hard leg day, it gets worse for a few days. The first one is starting to subside now. It is a dull pain, definitely in the muscle. Hurts like hell when you contract the muscle. Does anyone know what is up with that?

 

[Dma378]

Slight soreness is normal. Especially first couple pins in virgin muscles. They'll grow accustomed to it and you're technique will likely improve also.

More than soreness, swelling and redness past 2 days can be signs of either a bad injection, infection, etc.

But sounds like you have normal soreness.

Steady hands win. Straight in, push easy, straight out.

 

[clk]

If you pin your leg, try to not pin the rectus femorus. I found that muscle gets much more sore than the lateralis.

 

[jakz]

Okay so I'm underway and everything is good so far, save for one thing. The gear seems dosed well, it has been starting at me with the libido, endurance slightly increased, slightly better pump, dash of confidence.

My one issue - are these injections supposed to hurt a few days after the fact? I used my two delts for the first two and try are still quite sore. It doesn't happen upon injection. I can almost not feel that at all. Neither hurt till the following morning. It's kind of like a hard leg day, it gets worse for a few days. The first one is starting to subside now. It is a dull pain, definitely in the muscle. Hurts like hell when you contract the muscle. Does anyone know what is up with that?

It's just some PIP, like everyone said. Sust tends to hurt a bit yeah. I had some serious glute pain the other day from injecting too fast. Hot shower and massage will clear that right up man.

 

[saywutrly]

Thank you to everyone for your help for my newbie self. Rep points for everyone!! = D

The two delts are fine but I didn't read this until after I had pinned my leg the first time and I think I hit the rectus femoris. clk That's the one right down the front of the quad correct?

When I went to pin my left delt again (one I did first before) I couldn't get the needle to go in as far as before. I had almost the full inch in before but this time I made it about halfway before having a good deal of pain. It felt like I was in the delt, but I didn't want to be too shallow and have it go subq instead. Was this probably far enough, and do you think I might have been going too deep? I was told to go the whole needle but that dude also has way way bigger delts than me lmao.

 

[saywutrly]

jakz thanks for the hot shower idea. Very helpful. That plus some stretching in said shower helped it feel better for like an entire day before it got all knotted up again.

 

[jakz]

jakz thanks for the hot shower idea. Very helpful. That plus some stretching in said shower helped it feel better for like an entire day before it got all knotted up again.

I always heat up my test, pin and then get in the shower, massage for 5 mins then do some squats etc, then massage again. I have never worried about injection speed when doing this, but sust is different, still need to inject pretty slow.

 

[JuiceBoxJack]

It's sound alike you did your research and you've got a lot of great advice so far. But man I love to keep it stupid simple when it comes to giving advice for first cycles. So here's my input.

Weeks 1-12 Test Cyp/Enth @ 500mg
Weeks 1-4 D Bol @ 30mg

Arimidex on hand incase you're gyno prone. In which case .25/.5 EOD. I've never had any sides off either 30mg of dbol or the 500 of test but that's just me. I wouldn't exceed 500mg of test a week I think your receptors would still be fresh and you would yield great results ( close to 20 pounds )

Of course a proper PCT.

Plus this is very affordable. The more advanced cycles you plan on running, plan on working overtime if you have a family lol. Just my two cents, good luck American.

 

[saywutrly]

Just an update for anyone following, I'm doing fine with pinning every other day. I've added 20-30lbs to my major lifts and am up 5lbs with better body composition. Aggression, appetite, and "on" feeling isn't what I expected compared to the PH/DS with which I had experience, but libido is definitely jacked up, along with endurance and recovery.

I was cleaning out/reorganizing all my supplies and found some Trest capsules I forgot about. I'm not sure if that would function better than epistane in the end of this cycle as a finisher. I know Trest can be useful as a test base, but I also know that it is anabolic in its own right. Anyone have any input on that? Thanks, brothers!

 

[Dma378]

A little oral Trest PWO would be a sweet addition if your bases are covered.

 

[saywutrly]

A little oral Trest PWO would be a sweet addition if your bases are covered.

Right on, brother. So I will run the PWO Trest when I start running the epistane for the finisher, unless you think I would be safe doing it longer since its solely PWO.

I believe all my bases are covered. I'm one of those ounce of prevention guys. I have plenty of Inhibit-P that I can start and I'm running ancillaries exemestane, Liver Assist XT, saw palmetto, hawthorn berry, ON OptiMen multivitamin, Ashwagandha, extra C away from my workouts and glucose disposal agents.

 

[Dma378]

Right on, brother. So I will run the PWO Trest when I start running the epistane for the finisher, unless you think I would be safe doing it longer since its solely PWO.

I believe all my bases are covered. I'm one of those ounce of prevention guys. I have plenty of Inhibit-P that I can start and I'm running ancillaries exemestane, Liver Assist XT, saw palmetto, hawthorn berry, ON OptiMen multivitamin, Ashwagandha, extra C away from my workouts and glucose disposal agents.

Hell yeah!!

I say dabble when ready!! It's methylated, but not very toxic (17-a methylated)

 

[saywutrly]

Hell yeah!!

I say dabble when ready!! It's methylated, but not very toxic (17-a methylated)

I was hoping I wasn't wrong for thinking so. I believe 7-aa instead of 17-aa. That's why chemistry is so interesting to me. Make this little change here on the molecule and you've got PWO fun for the rest of the cycle! It looks like these are 25mg caps. By the looks of my research, folks are doing 25-50 PWO. I'll play around with that dosage and report back, even though it looks like this PWO Trest is a very known thing haha.