Test Prop and Tren Ace cycle - diving in!

ZackD89

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I know it is a bit unconvential, but for my first pinning cycle I have decided to run Test Prop and Tren Ace. Prior to this, I ran a cycle of Epistane and Stano (last fall) and more recently, a cycle of Osta/Dermacrine bridged into LGD, DermaTr3st, and 1- and 4- DHEA. I have built enough mass for my taste and want to cut down and show my definition. I believe that Tren will be best for this goal, and is doable for a first cycle given enough research and planning. I've been researching actual injectables for years and feel ready--but I still acknowledge that I'm a newbie and would love vet input.

Body stats: 5'11", 190 lbs, ~13% BF.

Here is my cycle plan:

Weeks 1-8
Test Prop: 25 mg ED
Tren Ace: 50 mg ED
HCG: 250 IU E3D
Caber: 0.5 mg E3D
Adex on hand

Weeks 9-10
Test Prop: 25 mg ED
HCG: 500 IU E3D
Caber: taper down (maybe 0.5 mg week 9, 0.25 week 10)

Weeks 11-15
*wait 3 days, then begin PCT*
Clomid: 100/50/25/25/0
Toremifene: 120/90/60/30/30

I know ED pinning is a lot for a first injectable cycle, but it truly seems to be the best way to keep levels stable, esp. of the Tren. I never have minded needles and think I have a good understanding of safe technique. I'm sure there will still be a learning curve though, but practice makes perfect, right?!

Thanks for any help guys. Happy New Year.
 
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Mkgain1

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Yeaaah running tren for your first cycle probably isn't the best idea.... You're gonna get quite an earful from some other members on this. Tren is an experienced aas users drug. Your first cycle you only need just a dab of gear to get awesome results, overdoing it just because of the things you hear about tren is just going to leave you in a bad spot. As your become more advanced your cycles should gradually increase to stronger compounds, stacking, and higher doses. Not go gung ho right from the start because you hear great things about the drug. I would personally just do 100mg test prop eod and granted your gear isn't bunk you should see exponential results just from that
 
ZackD89

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Yeaaah running tren for your first cycle probably isn't the best idea.... You're gonna get quite an earful from some other members on this. Tren is an experienced aas users drug. Your first cycle you only need just a dab of gear to get awesome results, overdoing it just because of the things you hear about tren is just going to leave you in a bad spot. As your become more advanced your cycles should gradually increase to stronger compounds, stacking, and higher doses. Not go gung ho right from the start because you hear great things about the drug. I would personally just do 100mg test prop eod and granted your gear isn't bunk you should see exponential results just from that
Thanks for the feedback. I'm open to input and hope that this can be an informative thread.

I will consider just sticking to the Test Prop, but I think the Tren would really help with the results I want, and since it's Ace I can drop it if I experience bad sides. Maybe I will start with just Test for a few weeks and only do Tren for 6 weeks (weeks 3-8). That way, I have time to test out Test Prop on its own.

I really enjoyed Trest (another 19-nor) but want the dryness of Tren.
 
Mkgain1

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I mean ultimately it's your call you're an adult you make your own decisions I'm not gonna say "no don't do this" but I definitely would advise a test only cycle for your first one bro, just in the sense of longevity of cycling in the future and knowing how certain compounds react with your body, have your test as your control cycle and in the future add other compounds on top. You can achieve great results with test prop alone believe me on that. But hey I'm sure whatever you decide to do you'll be happy with so just be smart and train hard
 
BamBam0319

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In for info since this is exactly what I'm doing for the second half of my next cycle
 
bad rad

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Not a bad design overall but I'd replace the Tren with NPP. I couldn't hang with 300 Tren weekly, stuff killed me. Keep your Estro under control and it will help the Tren sides.
 
ZackD89

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Not a bad design overall but I'd replace the Tren with NPP. I couldn't hang with 300 Tren weekly, stuff killed me. Keep your Estro under control and it will help the Tren sides.
Interesting. I'd like to try Tren and see if the sides are bad. The 2:1 tren:test ratio seems good for minimizing sides, but if they are bad I can reduce the dose or drop it. What sides did you have? Insomnia? Sweats? Rage?

What adex and prami dosage would you suggest as a starting point? I'm thinking adex at 0.25 mg EOD and prami at 0.25 mg ED, but this is the part I'm the least sure about.

Edit: I'm also considering Caber instead of Prami. Seems to be less prone to bad side effects.
 
bad rad

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I haven't used Caber or Prami as I never needed them. With that low dose of Test you may not need an AI but .25mg EOD is where I would start.

Side effects were severe insomnia, feeling strung out and some anxiety.
 
ZackD89

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I haven't used Caber or Prami as I never needed them. With that low dose of Test you may not need an AI but .25mg EOD is where I would start.

Side effects were severe insomnia, feeling strung out and some anxiety.
Interesting. BTW I thought Prami was supposed to help with the insomnia, if dosed at night.
 
ZackD89

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Decided to go with Caber instead of Prami. Edited first post accordingly.
 
Dma378

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I like it man. Although yeah, it's Tren for a first cycle, and ED pins for a first cycle, drop it if it's not working out. So you'll need to be rotating sites, hit me up if you need any pointers on specific spot injections. I have a few key techniques for each that help out.
 
datsthat

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you don't need to wait 3 weeks for PCT since prop has a short half life. give or take 10 days is good for prop. Make sure you don't accidently pin subq with prop otherwise you will have golf ball size bump and no fun PIP... speaking of PIP, prop only for 1st cycle is brave due to PIP.

good luck
 
highlander31

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Im not super experienced with AAS but ill put my 2 cents in.

I would start with just Test Prop, at least for like 4-6 weeks to see how you respond to it. Sust effected me different than any other PH i've used as I thought within the first day after injection that I was already getting gyno. Turns out my nips just get puffy at night from some extra water and I was freaking out. The more Sust I used, the less Adex I used and the better my nips got. But if I had more than just the Sust, I would have had no idea what was going on, especially with Tren impacting Prolactin so that throws a whole different variable in there.

Just something to think about. Also, think about the long term goals and education/safety, not just short term goals.

I mean I would love to see you run what you have set up haha, but with this I always stay on the side of caution.
 
BamBam0319

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you don't need to wait 3 weeks for PCT since prop has a short half life. give or take 10 days is good for prop. Make sure you don't accidently pin subq with prop otherwise you will have golf ball size bump and no fun PIP... speaking of PIP, prop only for 1st cycle is brave due to PIP.

good luck
I believe he said 3 days not weeks
 
ZackD89

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I like it man. Although yeah, it's Tren for a first cycle, and ED pins for a first cycle, drop it if it's not working out. So you'll need to be rotating sites, hit me up if you need any pointers on specific spot injections. I have a few key techniques for each that help out.
Thanks DMA. Nice to have some approval from a vet. I'm thinking I'll rotate between glutes, quads, and delts. I appreciate you offering your advice and will definitely PM you when my cycle is closer (I plan on starting in March--gathering supplies now).

you don't need to wait 3 weeks for PCT since prop has a short half life. give or take 10 days is good for prop. Make sure you don't accidently pin subq with prop otherwise you will have golf ball size bump and no fun PIP... speaking of PIP, prop only for 1st cycle is brave due to PIP.

good luck
I believe he said 3 days not weeks
Yeah, I said 3 days. Since it's a short ester, that seemed to be the right amount of time. I'm hoping my PIP won't be too bad due to getting my stuff from a well-reviewed source and taking care with my technique/massaging after, but no pain no gain, eh?

Im not super experienced with AAS but ill put my 2 cents in.

I would start with just Test Prop, at least for like 4-6 weeks to see how you respond to it. Sust effected me different than any other PH i've used as I thought within the first day after injection that I was already getting gyno. Turns out my nips just get puffy at night from some extra water and I was freaking out. The more Sust I used, the less Adex I used and the better my nips got. But if I had more than just the Sust, I would have had no idea what was going on, especially with Tren impacting Prolactin so that throws a whole different variable in there.

Just something to think about. Also, think about the long term goals and education/safety, not just short term goals.

I mean I would love to see you run what you have set up haha, but with this I always stay on the side of caution.
Lucky for me, my nipples are naturally puffy haha. But seriously, I appreciate the caution and understand that I might have some uncertainty. However, the cycle seems way more likely to need Prolactin control than Estrogen control. I think the Caber will be good for the Prolactin, so if I get any other sides, I will bring in the Adex. And of course, if I get rage or bad insomnia I can drop the Tren altogether.
 

criticalbench

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Your doses are actually pretty good. My personal opinions,

Drop Torem, not needed at all. Swap caber for prami. The effects on cardiac leaflet valves is pretty solid.
 
BamBam0319

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Your doses are actually pretty good. My personal opinions,

Drop Torem, not needed at all. Swap caber for prami. The effects on cardiac leaflet valves is pretty solid.
Say what now? Can you elaborate on that?
 
ZackD89

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Yeah, can you elaborate? I keep going back and forth between Caber and Prami, and it seems like the recommendations are 50/50, but Caber had less sides.
 

criticalbench

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Say what now? Can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, can you elaborate? I keep going back and forth between Caber and Prami, and it seems like the recommendations are 50/50, but Caber had less sides.
This is new information here? I figured it was well known. I have not been on this board for ages but since I am a rep for hi-tech/iforce nutrition.. it is part of my job. Typically im from bb.com for supplements and two other rather large, 1 being a private underground AAS forum.. and Caber cardiac effects are pretty widely known about in regards to valve damage. There is some conflicting evidence, but enough for me to steer clear in regards to tricuspid regurg.. potential thickening, and if memory serves me correct.. it might cause tenting of the mitral valve, but i could be wrong. It has been away.

I personally find prami far more effective, especially in liquid form as I can taper the dose extremely slow to avoid sides. I water my prami down with glycerin.. and use a 1ml oral syringe and can dose it exactly how I want since prami is very effective at low doses. Most people just use to much and feel like crap.. Pharma grade is harder for me to use as the lowest dose I can get is 0.25mg and they are not scored and hard to cut evenly.. especially when I want to start at a 1/4 of that dose.
 
B5150

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This is new information here? I figured it was well known. I have not been on this board for ages but since I am a rep for hi-tech/iforce nutrition.. it is part of my job. Typically im from bb.com for supplements and two other rather large, 1 being a private underground AAS forum.. and Caber cardiac effects are pretty widely known about in regards to valve damage. There is some conflicting evidence, but enough for me to steer clear in regards to tricuspid regurg.. potential thickening, and if memory serves me correct.. it might cause tenting of the mitral valve, but i could be wrong. It has been away.

I personally find prami far more effective, especially in liquid form as I can taper the dose extremely slow to avoid sides. I water my prami down with glycerin.. and use a 1ml oral syringe and can dose it exactly how I want since prami is very effective at low doses. Most people just use to much and feel like crap.. Pharma grade is harder for me to use as the lowest dose I can get is 0.25mg and they are not scored and hard to cut evenly.. especially when I want to start at a 1/4 of that dose.
Interesting. In my research, I came across studies negating Caber's effect on heart valves of otherwise healthy people (links below), but I see where you are coming from.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23824978
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18594989
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19128367

I will pick up some Prami and start with a very low dose. I already grabbed some Caber, but I don't think it will hurt to have both on hand.
Its certainly no secret and not new news that it can produced valve problems when used at clinical doses for the treatment of Parkinson's.

Certainly not from the .5mg - 1.0mg/w dosing used in this application.
 

criticalbench

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Interesting. In my research, I came across studies negating Caber's effect on heart valves of otherwise healthy people (links below), but I see where you are coming from.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23824978
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18594989
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19128367

I will pick up some Prami and start with a very low dose. I already grabbed some Caber, but I don't think it will hurt to have both on hand.
I choose to avoid caber as anything with even possible cardiac effects.. I choose to avoid in addition I can control the dose of prami much easier titrating daily.
 
heckler7

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I know it is a bit unconvential, but for my first pinning cycle I have decided to run Test Prop and Tren Ace. Prior to this, I ran a cycle of Epistane and Stano (last fall) and more recently, a cycle of Osta/Dermacrine bridged into LGD, DermaTr3st, and 1- and 4- DHEA. I have built enough mass for my taste and want to cut down and show my definition. I believe that Tren will be best for this goal, and is doable for a first cycle given enough research and planning. I've been researching actual injectables for years and feel ready--but I still acknowledge that I'm a newbie and would love vet input.

Body stats: 5'11", 190 lbs, ~13% BF.

Here is my cycle plan:

Weeks 1-8
Test Prop: 25 mg ED
Tren Ace: 50 mg ED Iwould save the tren for another cycle and run dbol 6 weeks
HCG: 250 IU E3D you can start HCG 3-4 weeks before you start your cycle
Caber: 0.5 mg E3D
Adex on hand You should run aromisin

Weeks 9-10
Test Prop: 25 mg ED If it was me Id run 500mg a week
HCG: 500 IU E3D
Caber: taper down (maybe 0.5 mg week 9, 0.25 week 10)

Weeks 11-15
*wait 3 days, then begin PCT*
Clomid: 100/50/25/25/0
Toremifene: 120/90/60/30/30

I know ED pinning is a lot for a first injectable cycle, but it truly seems to be the best way to keep levels stable, esp. of the Tren. I never have minded needles and think I have a good understanding of safe technique. I'm sure there will still be a learning curve though, but practice makes perfect, right?!

Thanks for any help guys. Happy New Year.
thats what I would do
 
ZackD89

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Thanks for the feedback. I don't plan on switching to Test E and Dbol though--my goal is to get shredded, not bigger. Also, I think Adex on cycle is better and Asin is better to use in PCT. Differing opinions aside. I really do appreciate the input.
 
ZackD89

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When you start this bro? Exciting times.
I'm waiting until March 1 because I'll be taking a vacation at the end of February. Almost all the "supplies" have arrived though--just waiting for one more shipment. It's already getting hard to wait!

Right now, I'm leaning out "naturally" with the help of Alphamine and Exotherm.
 
AustBenny

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Awesome dude. Yep, rest up, deload and chill during your holiday then get into it. Gonna be a sweet run man, if you run into any probs let us know.

Cheers
 
ZackD89

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Thanks man! I'm enjoying this natty time, but am getting hype for Tren too. I just came across this picture of Arnold and felt motivated by it, so I thought I'd share it here.

W27kjqz.jpg
 
ZackD89

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Wow. Big difference from the usual Deca Arnie look.
Definitely. I like the drier Tren look seen here.

IDK how legit the caption on the picture is (I don't think Arnold has ever actually come out and discussed Tren, has he?), but it seems like it's accurate. The pic is circa the 1980 Mr. O, when he was cutting down for a movie and then decided last minute to compete.
 
Dma378

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Definitely. I like the drier Tren look seen here.

IDK how legit the caption on the picture is (I don't think Arnold has ever actually come out and discussed Tren, has he?), but it seems like it's accurate. The pic is circa the 1980 Mr. O, when he was cutting down for a movie and then decided last minute to compete.
I have never heard the connection of Arnold and Tren either, nor seen this look on him!! So makes sense.

My opinion, I like his traditional look better. He did it well.
 
AustBenny

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Yeah, wow.

I think the traditional Arnie look is what we're used to and went with the times a little more but by today's current standards that physique is amazing....grainy as well.

I think in this photo his size is underwhelming, that full Deca look always made him look huge but the aesthetics of his physique are not lost...
 
Dma378

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Yeah, wow.

I think the traditional Arnie look is what we're used to and went with the times a little more but by today's current standards that physique is amazing....grainy as well.

I think in this photo his size is underwhelming, that full Deca look always made him look huge but the aesthetics of his physique are not lost...
Definitely not lost. He does this look very well too.
 
ZackD89

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Yeah, wow.

I think the traditional Arnie look is what we're used to and went with the times a little more but by today's current standards that physique is amazing....grainy as well.

I think in this photo his size is underwhelming, that full Deca look always made him look huge but the aesthetics of his physique are not lost...
Yeah. It's not just the Tren, of course. I remember watching an interview with him about the 1980 Olympia, where he explains that he had been trying to get smaller for a role. So if he had been eating like he was in like 1976 and taking Tren, I wonder how it would've looked. Probably like this mixed with his traditional size--utterly beastly.

I'm a big fan of Arnie -- he's my favorite bodybuilder and a generally inspirational guy. Anyone who hasn't should read his book "The Education of a Bodybuilder."
 
ZackD89

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Got my bloods back from one month after my DermaTrest and LGD cycle's PCT. Everything was in normal range (and total test was 692--higher than I've ever tested at before).

Getting nice and lean on my cut. This cycle will be perfect to finish that up! Getting a little nervous about ED pinning, but I think once I take the plunge I'll be fine.
 
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criticalbench

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Got my bloods back from one month after my DermaTrest and LGD cycle's PCT. Everything was in normal range (and total test was 697--higher than I've ever tested at before).

Getting nice and lean on my cut. This cycle will be perfect to finish that up! Getting a little nervous about ED pinning, but I think once I take the plunge I'll be fine.
awesome news bro!
 
AustBenny

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Got my bloods back from one month after my DermaTrest and LGD cycle's PCT. Everything was in normal range (and total test was 697--higher than I've ever tested at before).

Getting nice and lean on my cut. This cycle will be perfect to finish that up! Getting a little nervous about ED pinning, but I think once I take the plunge I'll be fine.
Yep, you'll be fine man.

Left glute
Right glute
Left quad
Right quad
Left delt
Right delt

Done :)
 
ZackD89

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For anyone wondering, I started this cycle on the 23rd. Feeling great so far, and I don't mind the daily pinning at all. Big thanks to Dma378 for helping me with injection techniques and general guidance.

I will update more as the cycle gets into full swing, and am happy to answer any questions.

By the way, I am not running any Prolactin control, but am running Adex at 0.25 EOD. Based on further research into Tren, I found that Prolactin shouldn't actually be an issue, as long as estrogen from the testosterone is kept at bay. But I still have Caber on hand in case that research is flawed.
 
BamBam0319

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Do you feel like the tren has kicked in yet? And what dosing are you doing to start off?
I felt the tren kicking in within a few days for sure. Then again I was also taking sdrol haha
 
Dma378

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For anyone wondering, I started this cycle on the 23rd. Feeling great so far, and I don't mind the daily pinning at all. Big thanks to Dma378 for helping me with injection techniques and general guidance.

I will update more as the cycle gets into full swing, and am happy to answer any questions.

By the way, I am not running any Prolactin control, but am running Adex at 0.25 EOD. Based on further research into Tren, I found that Prolactin shouldn't actually be an issue, as long as estrogen from the testosterone is kept at bay. But I still have Caber on hand in case that research is flawed.
My pleasure bro. Happy to help
 
ZackD89

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Do you feel like the tren has kicked in yet? And what dosing are you doing to start off?
I felt the tren kicking in within a few days for sure. Then again I was also taking sdrol haha
I think it has started to do its thing, but isn't fully in effect yet. I have felt generally more "alpha" than usual, but also calmer/happier because I consciously am focusing on not getting "tren rage" and being a good person. (Also I am happy to finally be running the cycle I've been dreaming of!) Not much change in strength yet, though.

I plan on running Test P at 25 mg ED and Tren Ace at 50 mg ED throughout.
 
ZackD89

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Start of week 2. Things are going smoothly so far. Strength is starting to increase, and looking a little leaner. I decided to add in Caber last night, probably more for the peace of mind/placebo effect than any actual need. No sides to speak of though--feeling calm, sleeping well, etc.
 
ZackD89

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Felt great today! I think the Caber was a good addition. In addition to the peace of mind about prolactin, the fact that it is a dopamine agonist is great for me--it seemed to negate my slight natural moodiness and difficulty focusing.

Down to 11.5% body fat. Hoping to hit single digits soon! Starting to see some veins I haven't seen before too.
 
ZackD89

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I'm still really enjoying this cycle. I decided to bump the dosages up to:
Test P - 35 mg ED
Tren A - 70 mg ED

Still no tren sides or anything negative really. I have to say, to the people who said Tren is too much for a first injectable cycle especially, that its sides pale in comparison to Epistane (anger/depression) and LGD (tendon pain). At least for me.

I have some pics from just before the cycle. I might post one and compare it to how I look now. I'm not great at taking body selfies, but it will provide some value hopefully.
 
highlander31

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Post up the noodz!!!
 
ZackD89

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Haha, sorry for the delay guys! Here are the pics. Of course, taking them made me feel pretty self-conscious, but I do see improvements over my pre-cycle self so I can't complain.

RIght Before my cycle, at the end of my cut. Around 180 lbs. GF commented that my butt was looking small at this stage btw haha
IMG_3487.JPG

IMG_3488.JPG



Pics taken today, about 3.5 weeks into the cycle. Back up to 190 lbs, but leaner. GF is happy that my butt is looking plump again haha, and has been complimenting me on my body in general. She said I looked too skinny at 180 lbs, and likes my "new look."
IMG_3492.JPG

IMG_3531.JPG

IMG_3532.JPG

IMG_3533.JPG
 

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