First injectable cycle - Moving on from PH's

[Sandy87]

Hi all,

So having dabbled with a few different PH's and been part of the "you are talking complete sense but I'll never inject" crowd, I've decided to go the sensible route and run a test/var cycle. Started Saturday just gone and have done a fair bit of reading over the last 6 months or so. Would appreciate some advice on some of the finer points, but pretty sure I've planned out a safe and effective first cycle.

Starting stats are:

27 Years old
84kg
BF around 12%

The cycle:

Week 1-12 - Test-E 500mg per week (1 shot of 2ml @ 250mg/ml)
Week 1-12 - 0.5mg Anastrazole EOD
Week 3-15 - HCG 250IU x3 per week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)
Week 6-12 - Anavar 50mg ED
Week 15-19 - Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20 and Clomid 50/50/50/50

Some reasoning:

Test - Some are in the split the dose camp for the benefit of stable blood plasma levels... But I don't want to have to pin more than I have to, and have read nothing that suggests it would make sure a huge difference.

Anastrazole - Don't want to use more than I need, however I am quite paranoid about gyno... Would I do well to up the dose to 1mg E3D from week 3 when I add the HCG?

Anavar - Have 200 10mg tabs so running this for 5 weeks and 5 days at 50mg per day. In regards to dosing, some split AM and PM doses. Is this worth doing? If there isn't a massive benefit of doing day 30mg morning and 20mg evening, I'll just do 50mg morning for the sake of convenience.

HCG - Originally I was going to run 250Iu twice per week, but I have 10,000IU. Some people recommend up to 1000IU per week. Figured since I have enough, 750mg per week would be a happy medium and the 3 shots would even out levels through the week? Advice welcome.

Clomid - Many run 150/100/50/50 or other variations... My concern is that I'm a angry/moody bugger generally and not liking the possibility of depression sides. Have read a fair bit that 50mg ED is more than enough anyway?

My goal overall is to reach around 95kg within 12 weeks and get my BF% down to below 8%. Advice or constructive criticism on the above very welcome, and please provide your reasoning if you would make a change. I am after all, looking to learn what I can. Thanks!

 

[Marsh1116]

Split the dose M TH 250mg each pin. When your hormones are up and down more sides present themselves . 2x a week nobody will tell you different

 

[laserbluess]

ditto for splitting up the dose. keeping your levels more stable will help you out big time. big peaks and valleys in between pins will create more side effects. honestly, pinning twice a week isnt bad at all. pinning tren every day for 9 weeks makes you thankful for only 2 pins a week lol.

your cycle looks very well planned out , but i would highly recommend two pins a week. plus, that keeps you from having to pump 2cc's into a single spot.

 

[DangerDave]

Looks solid bro. Split the dose of test but honestly after the first few weeks there will be enough in your system you won't feel dips I hormone levels. Only while it builds up. Test E has an active life of like 10-14 days depending on your metabolism. I don't split my doses unless I'm running high gear doses over long term. But when I cruise on 300mg I pin once.

For hcg. Just pin it every 5 days. That's the life of it so pinning 2 times a week WILL cause bumps and dips in mood and feeling. I always feel stable on 250iu every 5 days. Just my advice.

 

[DangerDave]

Looks solid bro. Split the dose of test but honestly after the first few weeks there will be enough in your system you won't feel dips I hormone levels. Only while it builds up. Test E has an active life of like 10-14 days depending on your metabolism. I don't split my doses unless I'm running high gear doses over long term. But when I cruise on 300mg I pin once.

For hcg. Just pin it every 5 days. That's the life of it so pinning 2 times a week WILL cause bumps and dips in mood and feeling. I always feel stable on 250iu every 5 days. Just my advice.

 

[plifter42]

Week 1-12 - Test-E 500mg per week (1 shot of 2ml @ 250mg/ml)
Week 1-12 - 0.5mg Anastrazole EOD
Week 3-15 - HCG 250IU x3 per week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)
Week 6-12 - Anavar 50mg ED
Week 15-19 - Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20 and Clomid 50/50/50/50

I would use the var as a kicker instead of a finisher, especially because you're using a long-estered test so the gains won't come in till week 3 or so but will be quicker if you kickstart it with the var. For PCT I would run the tamox @ 20/20/10/10 and the clomid at 50/50/25/25, you want to taper your PCT. Also I would rather save the HCG for PCT instead of using it on cycle..

 

[plifter42]

Var as a kicker? Lol wtf

"Lol wtf"? What are you, 15 years old?

Do you even know what you're talking about? Why would it be more beneficial for him to use var as a finisher instead of as a kickstarter? I would love to hear your argument.

 

[plifter42]

Do you know what a kicker is?
Var isn't a kicker...

If anything he should add a kicker upfront, but Var is fine where it is..

There's no argument to be made.. It is what it is..

Yes, I do. And var could be used as one. Your point is moot.

 

[Viking23]

I would use var as finisher because it is best suited for at the end , plus while your test is clearing there will be a point where you levels are to low to maintain your new muscle but to high for pct meds to be effective. You can run var while this is happening and maintain more muscle going into the start of pct . Some guys use test p instead but either way bridging like this is always going to make a smoother transition into pct.

If you use test e for 12 weeks and var for about 6 weeks than I would start the var at weeks 8-9 and continue to week 14-15 . some guys like to wait only two weeks for test to clear some do three I personally go right in the middle lol.

 

[DangerDave]

Viking makes a good point to use it while test levels clear. But lower test levels will not make you lose muscle, catabolism will. A few weeks of lower hormones will not make muscle disappear if you train and eat right.

Now var is neither a finisher or kicker. It's a low toxic oral steroid that does the same thing wether you run it at the start or finish. It will make you harder, more dense, stronger and vascular. Most guys use it at the end because they can't see the results because they were fat to start with. The chub they had hid the results under a layer of fat. I personally will take var as long as I can at the highest dose I can afford. Wether that's at the start or end determines when my next show is. So it needs to match your goals in other words. To argue it's a kicker or a finisher is childish and like arguing one race of people is better than another. It's ignorance.

 

[plifter42]

Viking makes a good point to use it while test levels clear. But lower test levels will not make you lose muscle, catabolism will. A few weeks of lower hormones will not make muscle disappear if you train and eat right.

Now var is neither a finisher or kicker. It's a low toxic oral steroid that does the same thing wether you run it at the start or finish. It will make you harder, more dense, stronger and vascular. Most guys use it at the end because they can't see the results because they were fat to start with. The chub they had hid the results under a layer of fat. I personally will take var as long as I can at the highest dose I can afford. Wether that's at the start or end determines when my next show is. So it needs to match your goals in other words. To argue it's a kicker or a finisher is childish and like arguing one race of people is better than another. It's ignorance.

This.

 

[Sandy87]

I would use var as finisher because it is best suited for at the end , plus while your test is clearing there will be a point where you levels are to low to maintain your new muscle but to high for pct meds to be effective. You can run var while this is happening and maintain more muscle going into the start of pct . Some guys use test p instead but either way bridging like this is always going to make a smoother transition into pct.

If you use test e for 12 weeks and var for about 6 weeks than I would start the var at weeks 8-9 and continue to week 14-15 . some guys like to wait only two weeks for test to clear some do three I personally go right in the middle lol.

Not a bad point in the running it up to PCT, but I go on holiday the day of my last test pin so not an option unfortunately.

I started pinning 500mg (2ml) once per week so will stick to that. Thanks for the comments though all. I've actually been logging this on another site so I shall copy over my weekly log posts shortly.

 

[Sandy87]

Week 1:

So I've decided to log this for a bit of fun, and to show progress. Should also give anyone interested a chance to give me some advice and feedback along the way.

First pin:

To be honest, I've not got much to say on this point. I've read a thousand posts on peoples experiences pinning, how to do it, how not to do it etc. I've also read a hell of a lot about PIP, and struggling to see what the big deal is. Not sure there's any need to go into any detail in regards to technique. I went for the glutes, upper outside quarter, aspirated, in it went (2ml). No pain at all. From the following day for two days, I felt like I had a bruise on my backside. To be expected, no big deal.

First week:

Not a great deal to say during the first week as obviously it takes a while to get into the system and kick in. Had a decent week training and was up 1kg to 85kg at the back end of the week. Not sure I can attribute this to the gear as I have just been on holiday and had a week of no training, probably just putting a bit back on from starting to train again fresh. I will say that during a midweek arms session, my pump was unreal. Came out of the gym at work and couldn't roll my short sleeve shirt sleeves past my biceps. Sat down and did an hour of paper work and then had about a finger's space between skin and sleeve. Not sure why I swelled up so much, again, probably nothing to do with the gear, but out of the ordinary none the less.

No issues to speak of, but again, early days. I do feel like my nipples are a little sensitive as I mentioned above, but I'm pretty sure that's just paranoia.

Will update again at the end of this week.

Week 2:

So the end of week two. Took my third jab last night. Weight on the scales after gym this morning was 86.4kg, so we're up 2.3kg in two weeks. On track for my goal but still keeping in mind that its probably a little optimistic. I could do with eating better, there have been quite a few days where I've not eaten as much as I should have, and a couple where I've been out for dinner etc and not had the most healthy choices. Definitely need to invest in some 1kg bags of nuts to snack on at work. Work snacks are consisting of tinned mackerel (which I am getting a bit fed up with) and protein shakes (which I am really starting to struggle with, real chore). Have just bought 10kg of fresh chicken breast (£20 for 5kg at Macro) and individually wrapped and frozen those. I always keep a big stock of this and will be conscious to try and eat more of it on a daily basis rather than just one breast.

Hit a new PB today, dead lift is up to 210kg where I was stuck at 200kg before. Chest session the other day was good, no new records but the strength I had on my last PH cycle (got up to 140kg for a few reps) is certainly starting to creep back. Looking forward to making some more progress over the next 10 weeks.

Starting my 3 HCG shots per week tomorrow, so need to get my first 5000iu mixed up and put in the fridge. Still welcoming any advice on my choice of dosage (250iu x 3 EW Mon/Wed/Fri). Still doing 0.5 Anastrazole EOD, no nipple issues. Need to monitor my joints though as skull crushers had to be stopped this week due to elbow pain. Low E contributes to this?

No sides to speak of at the moment. No issues pinning or with PIP (just the usual bruise feeling for two days), I really feel as though I'm missing something what with all the PIP talk that I read before starting.

I have a "before" picture on my phone from a few weeks before I started. I will upload when I can be bothered for comparisons sake later.

Var for the last 6 weeks is being ordered next weekend, I'm waiting to hear back as to what lab it is so would welcome opinions when I know.

Week 3:

End of week 3, fourth jab was yesterday. Weight on the scales today was 87kg, so slowed down a bit but still climbing. Back to just under the weight I was at the end of my last 4 week PH cycle. The comments started this week, that I look bigger etc. Arms definitely seem to be filling out my (short sleeve) work shirts more. Feeling stronger generally, 140kg bench, the 210kg DL PB, back on the skull crushers and 15kg each side is getting to be easy - may start working towards 20kg on those this week.

Still need to do better with getting food down my neck. Breakfast is about 150g of granola with half a tub of Skyr (about 35g protein). Evening meal is generally a good feed. Lunch is where I'm struggling with lack of access to more than chicken/tuna wraps/sarnies at work. Some days I am bringing a good lunch in, but I don't always have the time to pre prepare. Forcing a protein shake down every day mid morning (MP Hard gainer extreme - 35g protein, 400cals), really starting to struggle to enjoy them (used to) but getting them in anyway.

HCG started this week. Had three shots so far, nothing to report regarding that. It does sting though, and leaves quite the tender spot afterwards for a couple of days!

Var is here and starts in 3 weeks time. Its by EUL which is the same brand as my test, so looking forward to getting into that.

No issues to report with the test. No sides, skin maybe slightly greasier but no spots. No issues with pinning or PIP. Considering bumping up to 750mg for the last few weeks, but we'll see about that later on.

Week 4:

Fifth jab today, so a roundup of week 4 on cycle. Weight yesterday was 87.7kg.

Still feeling good! I did get a little paranoid about gyno yesterday. I have no sensitivity, puffiness or soreness... But having a rummage around in my boobs, if i feel along the bottom of my pecs, away from my nipples, I can feel a bit of uneven tissue. Almost like gristle. As such I've bumped up my anastrazole to 0.5mg ED. Should I also consider doing a low dose of tamoxifen, 10mg ED perhaps?

I went to the doctors this morning, as I had planned to do anyway, in order to get bloods taken so I can see how things are going. Should have the results back by mid week, Friday at the latest. I will post them up here for people to have a look at.

Really looking forward to starting the Anavar next Monday at the start of week 6.

No real strength gains to speak of this week, though in some respects I may not have been pushing as hard as I could due to a hectic week at work.

 

[laserbluess]

nice man! Yeah, with test i didnt really start to see great gains until week 4 / 5. Then it really ramped up and took off. Weeks 6 - 18 for me were golden.

Let me know how the var is. I just can't justify the price, but some people absolutely swear by it.

I had the same stinging with HCG. It never lessened either, just had to get used to that. Good luck man and stick with the diet!

 

[dustter]

sooo... how did this end...?

 

[brofessorx]

"Lol wtf"? What are you, 15 years old?

Do you even know what you're talking about? Why would it be more beneficial for him to use var as a finisher instead of as a kickstarter? I would love to hear your argument.

Simple, use var while test clears your system. Var has a much shorter half life that test e. Start pct after last dose of var.
clomid 50mgx4 weeks then ai starting week 4, an continue 4 weeks.
Add in cortisol blocker reduce xt, an natty test booster, super pct starting day one of pct, an continue 3-4 weeks after finish ai.

 

[brofessorx]

sooo... how did this end...?

Shiit, should of read the post dates. Too many margaritas

 

[CNPJamie]

Am I alone in thinking that the anti-e's are totally unnecessary at his dosing?