StanleyG
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This is just a thread to touch on the compounds I use (or at least have on hand) for all of my AAS cycles. I saw a similar post by someone on another forum that pretty much outlines almost the same compounds for the most part but I didn't see this info consolidated here in any one single thread here (although I am sure it is mentioned all over). I am far from the be all, end all for this information but I do have many years of experience using AAS. I have seen many changes for the better when it comes to managing and controlling side effects as well as maintaining better overall health and safety while using steroids.
First of all I will say this, I think testosterone should be incorporated into every cycle. Even if it just a base trt dose IMO this hormone serves many vital functions in males and not just any androgen is test and can replace it effectively. Therefore the substances I am referring too are based on cycles that are founded on the test included premise.
One of the biggest changes I have seen when it comes to cycling and side effects and eliminating/managing them has come in the area of controlling estrogen. Estrogen is a funny hormone in males. It is over vilified in many cases. The thing is this, it has good and bad effects. Estrogen levels that are too low is not healthy and can hinder your progress, estrogen too high can do the same. This is one of the biggest changes I have seen in AAS use. It used to be all we could do is negate as many of the negative effects of elevated estrogen as we could while on cycle. This was accomplished by using a serm such as nolvadex. The nolva would block e2 in receptor sites such as the receptor in breast tissue which would prevent gyno. Now we have the luxury of actually controlling or managing our estrogen levels. This can be accomplished by using an AI, or aromatase inhibitor. You can use Arimidex, Aromasin, or Femara to do this. Femara (letrozole) is very potent and too strong for many to use as it can lower your estrogen too much. I have used Aromasin (exemestane) or Arimidex (anastrozole) both very effectively to manage my estrogen levels on cycle. I like to keep my estrogen around the mid 20's personally. I feel this allows me to get the benefits of estrogen without the adverse side effects. The only way to truly dial in your ai dose id by getting blood work. The good thing is once you do this and establish some baselines it will allow you to know or approximate your starting ai dose much more accurately in future cycles. So I always use an AI to MANAGE my estrogen levels. This allows me to get the benefits of immune system function, IGF levels and so on without the costs such as bloat, prostate issues and cardiovascular dangers elevated estrogen causes in males.
Another thing I use every cycle is HCG. This prevent testicular atrophy and maintains leydig cell function in the testis. I really think this has improved my recovery of natural HPTA function more quickly post cycle. When we cycle we shut down HPTA function. LH is no longer produced in the pituitary and converted to testosterone in the testis via the leydig cells. HCG is a leutenizing hormone mimetic. It mimics LH and allows the leydig cells in the testis to remain functional. Some like to just use HCG post cycle and pre pct (some even say to use it in pct) to jump start leydig cell function. There are several reasons I do not like either method. First of all why try to shock the leydig cells into functioning when you could maintain their function the entire time? It makes no sense to me to allow them to cease function when you dont have too. Its like a car with a battery issue. You can keep it running while you run in the house and guarantee no issues or you could shut it off and HOPE the stored up burst of current will restart it when you come out. Why take the chance? Also as far as using HCG in pct, well that makes no sense as HCG itself is suppressive so it certainly has no place in PCT where we are tying to RESTORE HPTA function, not suppress it in any way. I take HCG at a low dose through my entire cycle. 250iu's-2x/week works great for me. You do not want to take high doses of hcg while on cycle as it can actually desensitize the leydig cells over time if taken at higher doses This means they will not respond properly to LH once its production in the anterior pituitary resumes. You should cease HCG use 3 days pre your PCT.
In cycle where I am running a 19nor such as tren, deca or NPP I always have a dopamine agonist on hand. It seems that 19 nors may have the ability to increase prolactin. By increasing dopamine you can lower prolacctin. Should prolactin become elevated on cycle adding in a dopamine agonist such as pramipexole can lower back to within range. Signs of increased prolactin are sexual dysfunction or lactation. It should be mentioned your first line of defense in managing PRL sides is managing e2. Estrrogen is at the crux of many of the "female hormone" related sides a male can incur while on cycle. Quite often by managing e2 properly use of a dopamine agonist can be avoided, but if some some reason it cannot I jump on prami. I dose prami at .5mg/day. I take it at night before I go to bed because it makes me very tired. I also take it at a dose of .25mgs/day for a week, then bump it up to .5mgs/day. If you dont do this you can incur sides such as nausea and vomiting from prami. Some dont take to prami well at all, for them an alternate dopamine agonist is cabergoline. Caber will work but I prefer prami. Prami activates D3 receptors more than Caber dose. D3 receptors play a vital role in male sexual function. Since a big part of increased prolactin in males is sexual side effects I feel prami is a better choice for our purposes. Also the serious side effect profile of prami is better than caber. Anyway I always have prami on hand when I run a cycle with a 19 nor and I take only if needed. You do not want to just take prami or any dopamine agonist unless you have too. Dopamine effects the neurological rewards system in the brain. You do not want to mess with this as doing so repeatedly and unnecessarily can lead to long term unpleasant sides such as depression and lack of fulfillment in what would normally be rewarding activities.
I also always have the serm raloxifene on hand for every cycle as well. You can substitute tamoxifen for this application as well. If for some reason I get gyno flare ups or gyno should start to form in spite of my ai use I will jump on raloxifene at 60mgs/day. Raloxifene blocks the estrogen receptors in breast tissue better than any other serm. IMO It is the go to for treating gyno. You can mange your estrogen with an ai such as stane or dex and treat the gyno with raloxifene. 60mg/day is a great dose for this. If you choose to use tamoxifen for this purpose that will work as well I would dose tamox at 40mg for 1 week then drop it to 20mg daily after week one. You can also run tamox alongside an ai. The AI managing e2, the tamox treating the gyno. On this note I have heard people say do not run tamoxifen with arimidex as tamox lowers plasma levels of dex. This is not a valid concern. You see while plasma levels of arimidex are lowered, this reduction has no impact on the effectiveness of arimidex when it comes to the lowering of e2 so it is in fact, of no clinical significance what so ever.
When I take orals on cycle I am concerned with protecting my liver. In choosing the compounds I use for this I rely on the medical community for my answers. I take NAC at 1200mgs/day while on cycle with orals ( I take it at 600mgs/day all the time anyway). This does an excellent job of maintaining liver function as well as protection. If for some reason I still see elevated out of range AST or ALT in spite of my NAC use I will turn to UDCA in addition to NAC. I take UDCA at 250mgs/day along with my NAC. This is a very potent liver stack and definitely does the trick for me. Many will say why not just take NAC and UDCA together from the start? Well Ill tell you why because 90% of the time the UDCA is unnecessary for me and I am not in the business of just taking compounds unnecessarily. I think that is the most prudent approach and should be used when it comes to all compounds and ancillaries. Thats why I am not big on these combo supps, or one stop shop solutions. I pinpoint what works and just take the minimum of what actually works based on the scenario.
Another thing I keep an eye on on cycle is my blood pressure. Blood pressure is arguably one of the, if not the most dangerous side of AAS use. For me using cialis daily at a dose of 5mg per day works great to keep my blood pressure under control even when I do a relatively heavy cycle. Also it has some nice added benefits as well as you can imagine!
For my PCT I do not rely on supplements, I rely on serms. They are tried and true and there is not one single supplement that will stimulate LH & FSH production like serms will. They do so safely and effectively based on the dosages and durations we use them for. The goal of PCT is to resume normal HPTA function as quickly as possible. This is for gains retention as well as overall health concerns. My personal PCT choice is Tamoxifen and Comiphene. I take 40mg of tamoxifen and 70mg of clomiphene per day for week one of my PCT. For the remaining weeks I take 20mg of tamoxifen and 35mg of clompihene per day. I usually run my PCT for 4 weeks. My pct dosages (especially the clomid) might look a bit odd but that is because I use RC clomid dosed at 35mg/ml. I have found that using at what might appear lower than normal doses has not reduced effectiveness at all but allows me to do easy dosing and use less than many normally use but get the same result. This may also work well for those that get sides from clomid Trying it at the slightly lower dose may reduce or eliminate the side but not impact the result. When I start it depends upon the esters of the compounds I am running. You pretty much want the levels of aas to have dropped to the point where serms can actually illicit a response and resume production of LH & FSH. Starting before this will do nothing for you and starting to late will delay your recovery and cost you in the form of gains retention and recovery of HPTA function. Some people do have side effect issues with tamoxifen or clomid. If that is the case I would replace the offending serm with the serm toremifene. I hear a lot of people say why take both clomid and nolva together blah blah blah. Well the why is the simple fact that is the most proven effective serm combination for the restoration of HPTA function. This comes from the likes of Dr Scally and others (ie: Dr Tan) with literally thousands of case studies. Also this combination gives you the estrogen agonist and antagoist activity that seems to be optimal for HPTA function restoration.
So to list things out on cycle I use or have on hand:
AI, Stane or Dex (some use letro) - To manage e2
HCG - To maintain leydig cell funstion and improve hpta recovery post cycle
Doapmine Agonist, Prami (some use caber) - In case of Prolactin Issues
Serm , Raloxifene (some use tamox)- Just in case gyno flares
NAC & UDCA - For liver protection when taking orals
SERM, Clomid & Nolva (some torem) - For PCT and restoration of HPTA function
These are compounds I use and/ or have on hand every cycle. I have them before i even start my cycle so I dont take any chances. I dont want to end up needing one of them and run into a scenario for whatever reason where availability becomes an issue. I dont consider any of these optional, I consider them mandatory. The AAS game has changed significantly over the years and some of the best changes has been the availability of all of these compounds and the incorporation of them into the cycle. It allows for the best gains in the safest and healthiest manner. Also I cant emphasize enough the importance of pre, mid and post cycle blood work. You should get pre cycle blood work to establish your baselines, Mid cycle to see where you are at and adjust compounds or dosages as needed. Always get mid cycle bloods when everything is stabilized in your system so you have accurate numbers to base any necessary changes off of. Post cycle blood work should be 6-8 weeks post PCT. Any earlier than that and the serms from PCT can give you inflated LH & FSH as well as Test #'s. You want to know where you will be without anything impacting those numbers.
So that about sums it up. I hope this is helpful/useful to someone out there. There are other things here and there that can come up but this is definitely the base or foundation of my ancillaries for my AAS cycles. Many that are newer to this dont not realize how far this has come ad how nice it is to be able to incorporate compounds like an AI and to manage hormones like estrogen instead of just blocking effects , doing the best you can to minimize them. Now you can actually harness the benefits of e2 without the costs etc. The game has come a long was and I am sure in another 10-20 years things will have advanced even further still. For right now this line up of ancillaries is serving me well and I hope it helps someone out there get the most out of their cycling experience as well.
First of all I will say this, I think testosterone should be incorporated into every cycle. Even if it just a base trt dose IMO this hormone serves many vital functions in males and not just any androgen is test and can replace it effectively. Therefore the substances I am referring too are based on cycles that are founded on the test included premise.
One of the biggest changes I have seen when it comes to cycling and side effects and eliminating/managing them has come in the area of controlling estrogen. Estrogen is a funny hormone in males. It is over vilified in many cases. The thing is this, it has good and bad effects. Estrogen levels that are too low is not healthy and can hinder your progress, estrogen too high can do the same. This is one of the biggest changes I have seen in AAS use. It used to be all we could do is negate as many of the negative effects of elevated estrogen as we could while on cycle. This was accomplished by using a serm such as nolvadex. The nolva would block e2 in receptor sites such as the receptor in breast tissue which would prevent gyno. Now we have the luxury of actually controlling or managing our estrogen levels. This can be accomplished by using an AI, or aromatase inhibitor. You can use Arimidex, Aromasin, or Femara to do this. Femara (letrozole) is very potent and too strong for many to use as it can lower your estrogen too much. I have used Aromasin (exemestane) or Arimidex (anastrozole) both very effectively to manage my estrogen levels on cycle. I like to keep my estrogen around the mid 20's personally. I feel this allows me to get the benefits of estrogen without the adverse side effects. The only way to truly dial in your ai dose id by getting blood work. The good thing is once you do this and establish some baselines it will allow you to know or approximate your starting ai dose much more accurately in future cycles. So I always use an AI to MANAGE my estrogen levels. This allows me to get the benefits of immune system function, IGF levels and so on without the costs such as bloat, prostate issues and cardiovascular dangers elevated estrogen causes in males.
Another thing I use every cycle is HCG. This prevent testicular atrophy and maintains leydig cell function in the testis. I really think this has improved my recovery of natural HPTA function more quickly post cycle. When we cycle we shut down HPTA function. LH is no longer produced in the pituitary and converted to testosterone in the testis via the leydig cells. HCG is a leutenizing hormone mimetic. It mimics LH and allows the leydig cells in the testis to remain functional. Some like to just use HCG post cycle and pre pct (some even say to use it in pct) to jump start leydig cell function. There are several reasons I do not like either method. First of all why try to shock the leydig cells into functioning when you could maintain their function the entire time? It makes no sense to me to allow them to cease function when you dont have too. Its like a car with a battery issue. You can keep it running while you run in the house and guarantee no issues or you could shut it off and HOPE the stored up burst of current will restart it when you come out. Why take the chance? Also as far as using HCG in pct, well that makes no sense as HCG itself is suppressive so it certainly has no place in PCT where we are tying to RESTORE HPTA function, not suppress it in any way. I take HCG at a low dose through my entire cycle. 250iu's-2x/week works great for me. You do not want to take high doses of hcg while on cycle as it can actually desensitize the leydig cells over time if taken at higher doses This means they will not respond properly to LH once its production in the anterior pituitary resumes. You should cease HCG use 3 days pre your PCT.
In cycle where I am running a 19nor such as tren, deca or NPP I always have a dopamine agonist on hand. It seems that 19 nors may have the ability to increase prolactin. By increasing dopamine you can lower prolacctin. Should prolactin become elevated on cycle adding in a dopamine agonist such as pramipexole can lower back to within range. Signs of increased prolactin are sexual dysfunction or lactation. It should be mentioned your first line of defense in managing PRL sides is managing e2. Estrrogen is at the crux of many of the "female hormone" related sides a male can incur while on cycle. Quite often by managing e2 properly use of a dopamine agonist can be avoided, but if some some reason it cannot I jump on prami. I dose prami at .5mg/day. I take it at night before I go to bed because it makes me very tired. I also take it at a dose of .25mgs/day for a week, then bump it up to .5mgs/day. If you dont do this you can incur sides such as nausea and vomiting from prami. Some dont take to prami well at all, for them an alternate dopamine agonist is cabergoline. Caber will work but I prefer prami. Prami activates D3 receptors more than Caber dose. D3 receptors play a vital role in male sexual function. Since a big part of increased prolactin in males is sexual side effects I feel prami is a better choice for our purposes. Also the serious side effect profile of prami is better than caber. Anyway I always have prami on hand when I run a cycle with a 19 nor and I take only if needed. You do not want to just take prami or any dopamine agonist unless you have too. Dopamine effects the neurological rewards system in the brain. You do not want to mess with this as doing so repeatedly and unnecessarily can lead to long term unpleasant sides such as depression and lack of fulfillment in what would normally be rewarding activities.
I also always have the serm raloxifene on hand for every cycle as well. You can substitute tamoxifen for this application as well. If for some reason I get gyno flare ups or gyno should start to form in spite of my ai use I will jump on raloxifene at 60mgs/day. Raloxifene blocks the estrogen receptors in breast tissue better than any other serm. IMO It is the go to for treating gyno. You can mange your estrogen with an ai such as stane or dex and treat the gyno with raloxifene. 60mg/day is a great dose for this. If you choose to use tamoxifen for this purpose that will work as well I would dose tamox at 40mg for 1 week then drop it to 20mg daily after week one. You can also run tamox alongside an ai. The AI managing e2, the tamox treating the gyno. On this note I have heard people say do not run tamoxifen with arimidex as tamox lowers plasma levels of dex. This is not a valid concern. You see while plasma levels of arimidex are lowered, this reduction has no impact on the effectiveness of arimidex when it comes to the lowering of e2 so it is in fact, of no clinical significance what so ever.
When I take orals on cycle I am concerned with protecting my liver. In choosing the compounds I use for this I rely on the medical community for my answers. I take NAC at 1200mgs/day while on cycle with orals ( I take it at 600mgs/day all the time anyway). This does an excellent job of maintaining liver function as well as protection. If for some reason I still see elevated out of range AST or ALT in spite of my NAC use I will turn to UDCA in addition to NAC. I take UDCA at 250mgs/day along with my NAC. This is a very potent liver stack and definitely does the trick for me. Many will say why not just take NAC and UDCA together from the start? Well Ill tell you why because 90% of the time the UDCA is unnecessary for me and I am not in the business of just taking compounds unnecessarily. I think that is the most prudent approach and should be used when it comes to all compounds and ancillaries. Thats why I am not big on these combo supps, or one stop shop solutions. I pinpoint what works and just take the minimum of what actually works based on the scenario.
Another thing I keep an eye on on cycle is my blood pressure. Blood pressure is arguably one of the, if not the most dangerous side of AAS use. For me using cialis daily at a dose of 5mg per day works great to keep my blood pressure under control even when I do a relatively heavy cycle. Also it has some nice added benefits as well as you can imagine!
For my PCT I do not rely on supplements, I rely on serms. They are tried and true and there is not one single supplement that will stimulate LH & FSH production like serms will. They do so safely and effectively based on the dosages and durations we use them for. The goal of PCT is to resume normal HPTA function as quickly as possible. This is for gains retention as well as overall health concerns. My personal PCT choice is Tamoxifen and Comiphene. I take 40mg of tamoxifen and 70mg of clomiphene per day for week one of my PCT. For the remaining weeks I take 20mg of tamoxifen and 35mg of clompihene per day. I usually run my PCT for 4 weeks. My pct dosages (especially the clomid) might look a bit odd but that is because I use RC clomid dosed at 35mg/ml. I have found that using at what might appear lower than normal doses has not reduced effectiveness at all but allows me to do easy dosing and use less than many normally use but get the same result. This may also work well for those that get sides from clomid Trying it at the slightly lower dose may reduce or eliminate the side but not impact the result. When I start it depends upon the esters of the compounds I am running. You pretty much want the levels of aas to have dropped to the point where serms can actually illicit a response and resume production of LH & FSH. Starting before this will do nothing for you and starting to late will delay your recovery and cost you in the form of gains retention and recovery of HPTA function. Some people do have side effect issues with tamoxifen or clomid. If that is the case I would replace the offending serm with the serm toremifene. I hear a lot of people say why take both clomid and nolva together blah blah blah. Well the why is the simple fact that is the most proven effective serm combination for the restoration of HPTA function. This comes from the likes of Dr Scally and others (ie: Dr Tan) with literally thousands of case studies. Also this combination gives you the estrogen agonist and antagoist activity that seems to be optimal for HPTA function restoration.
So to list things out on cycle I use or have on hand:
AI, Stane or Dex (some use letro) - To manage e2
HCG - To maintain leydig cell funstion and improve hpta recovery post cycle
Doapmine Agonist, Prami (some use caber) - In case of Prolactin Issues
Serm , Raloxifene (some use tamox)- Just in case gyno flares
NAC & UDCA - For liver protection when taking orals
SERM, Clomid & Nolva (some torem) - For PCT and restoration of HPTA function
These are compounds I use and/ or have on hand every cycle. I have them before i even start my cycle so I dont take any chances. I dont want to end up needing one of them and run into a scenario for whatever reason where availability becomes an issue. I dont consider any of these optional, I consider them mandatory. The AAS game has changed significantly over the years and some of the best changes has been the availability of all of these compounds and the incorporation of them into the cycle. It allows for the best gains in the safest and healthiest manner. Also I cant emphasize enough the importance of pre, mid and post cycle blood work. You should get pre cycle blood work to establish your baselines, Mid cycle to see where you are at and adjust compounds or dosages as needed. Always get mid cycle bloods when everything is stabilized in your system so you have accurate numbers to base any necessary changes off of. Post cycle blood work should be 6-8 weeks post PCT. Any earlier than that and the serms from PCT can give you inflated LH & FSH as well as Test #'s. You want to know where you will be without anything impacting those numbers.
So that about sums it up. I hope this is helpful/useful to someone out there. There are other things here and there that can come up but this is definitely the base or foundation of my ancillaries for my AAS cycles. Many that are newer to this dont not realize how far this has come ad how nice it is to be able to incorporate compounds like an AI and to manage hormones like estrogen instead of just blocking effects , doing the best you can to minimize them. Now you can actually harness the benefits of e2 without the costs etc. The game has come a long was and I am sure in another 10-20 years things will have advanced even further still. For right now this line up of ancillaries is serving me well and I hope it helps someone out there get the most out of their cycling experience as well.
