Cycle Critique

Mr_Irrelevant

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Hey guys, just putting together my cycle and figured you guys would be a great bunch to ask. This will be my first pinning cycle.

Test E: 1-14/15 600mgs/week (Pinning Sunday and Thursday)
Dbol: 30mg 1-4
Aromasin: 12.5mg eod (Will adjust if needed)

PCT: Starts 2 weeks after last pin
Nolva: 20/20/10/10/10
Clomid: 40/40/20/20/10
Aromasin: 12.5mg eod??????
DAA: 3/3/3/3/3/3


What do you all think?

What's recommended with Aromasin through PCT?
Also, what do you guys do for cycle assist during your cycle and PCT?
I mean do I really need to look at buying CEL cycle assist for the whole cycle and PCT? At full dosages?

Thanks everyone!
 
bad rad

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IMO it's too long, too high dosed for a first cycle and you don't need Dbol for a first. I'd cut it back to 10 weeks and 400mg Test weekly. Single chem cycles allow you to learn exactly how you respond to that compound. I'd save the remaining Test and Dbol for the next cycle. The longer your testes are without stimulus the harder it is to recover post cycle. This is why low dosed (250-500iu x2 weekly) hCG is ran along side cycle these days. I had a hard time recovering without hCG.

AI doses require blood test to dial in correctly but your proposed dosing is a great place to start. I would cut the AI to E4D during PCT, you want to control it not crush it.
 
Lukef2000

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Hey guys, just putting together my cycle and figured you guys would be a great bunch to ask. This will be my first pinning cycle. Test E: 1-14/15 600mgs/week (Pinning Sunday and Thursday) Dbol: 30mg 1-4 Aromasin: 12.5mg eod (Will adjust if needed) PCT: Starts 2 weeks after last pin Nolva: 20/20/10/10/10 Clomid: 40/40/20/20/10 Aromasin: 12.5mg eod?????? DAA: 3/3/3/3/3/3 What do you all think? What's recommended with Aromasin through PCT? Also, what do you guys do for cycle assist during your cycle and PCT? I mean do I really need to look at buying CEL cycle assist for the whole cycle and PCT? At full dosages? Thanks everyone!
Cycle looks good to me. I honestly wouldn't change much. If you feel the need you could throw hcg but IMO it's a waste on a test only cycle. I'd still use aromasin during pct but you'd have to adjust the dosages and feel it out.
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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IMO it's too long, too high dosed for a first cycle and you don't need Dbol for a first. I'd cut it back to 10 weeks and 400mg Test weekly. Single chem cycles allow you to learn exactly how you respond to that compound. I'd save the remaining Test and Dbol for the next cycle. The longer your testes are without stimulus the harder it is to recover post cycle. This is why low dosed (250-500iu x2 weekly) hCG is ran along side cycle these days. I had a hard time recovering without hCG.

AI doses require blood test to dial in correctly but your proposed dosing is a great place to start. I would cut the AI to E4D during PCT, you want to control it not crush it.
Well my source has test 300 so I just think it would be easier to just do 600mgs a week. And I know people recommend a test only cycle first, however I believe a kickstart with dbol for the first 4 weeks will still allow me to determine which drug is causing the side effects since the test takes 4-5 weeks to really kick in. Also, thanks for the recommendation for the AI dosage during PCT.

Cycle looks good to me. I honestly wouldn't change much. If you feel the need you could throw hcg but IMO it's a waste on a test only cycle. I'd still use aromasin during pct but you'd have to adjust the dosages and feel it out.
Well it's not a test only cycle. I'm hoping to kickstart with the dbol for 4 weeks.

Looks like a great cycle to me.
Thank you, I think so too.
 
hiprsha666

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I did a dbol kicker with my first cycle too. And it was pretty clear what was the dbol and what was the test. I vote go ahead as planned.
 

Quest

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I vote go ahead with the dbol also...

I used sd to kick my last test cycle and also could tell when the test kicked in. Ran 400 for 12 weeks with a six week sd at 10 kicker.
Just started another, sd at 10 for 6 weeks and I'll start test e at 500 p/wk for 18 weeks = king mofo kong :) Use tamax, exemestine(12.5 eod with the tamax for 4 wks) ana beta elite (4 caps a day).
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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I vote go ahead with the dbol also...

I used sd to kick my last test cycle and also could tell when the test kicked in. Ran 400 for 12 weeks with a six week sd at 10 kicker.
Just started another, sd at 10 for 6 weeks and I'll start test e at 500 p/wk for 18 weeks = king mofo kong :) Use tamax, exemestine(12.5 eod with the tamax for 4 wks) ana beta elite (4 caps a day).
Great, thank you!
 
Lukef2000

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Well it's not a test only cycle. I'm hoping to kickstart with the dbol for 4 weeks.
well it is still a test only cycle as it's the only injectable your running for the duration. The dbol will be clear of your system pretty quick once it's been discontinued.
 
StanleyG

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I would drop the daa from pct - all it will accomplish is to increase PRL and thus e2. Also no ai during pct. Serms will far outdo anything daa brings to the table test production wise as well - its a waste and counter productive based on my first statement re its effects.
Stane is better dosed daily IMO & expereince but that will vary and should be adjusted based on individual blood work. Its a pretty basic cycle.
I always like to see hcg at 250iu's-2x/week. Not sure where the test only its not needed comes from, Sure we did cycles for years without it but it undoubtedly improves the ease of hpta recovery and shut down is shut down so why your shut down with test or say test and mast for example - whats the difference? The only time compounds seem to come into play with recovery is when your cycles include 19 nors like deca or tren - they seem to make recovery more difficult for some. Id run hcg through cycle and stop it 3 days pre pct.
Run the stane up to pct - then ditch it. Serms estrogen antagonist as well as agonist effects are what make them effective (especially combining nolva and clomid) dont f with this throwing an unnecessary ai in the mix.
Blood work pre cycle, mid cycle and 6-8 weeks post pct to assess recovery (comparable to pre cycle bloods of course).
Fairly solid Id just make a few tweaks.
 

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I agree with tossing the daa until after the cycle and pct. Also agree about dosing aromasin every day as it has a shorter half life. Now with hcg I would only use it towards end of cycle as a blast so to speak. Use it for like 4 weeks and you should be good to go
 
Goliath1

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Stanley G squared you up, and I didn't even read it.. Always good advice from him..
 
Jiigzz

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I would drop the daa from pct - all it will accomplish is to increase PRL and thus e2. Also no ai during pct. Serms will far outdo anything daa brings to the table test production wise as well - its a waste and counter productive based on my first statement re its effects.
Stane is better dosed daily IMO & expereince but that will vary and should be adjusted based on individual blood work. Its a pretty basic cycle.
I always like to see hcg at 250iu's-2x/week. Not sure where the test only its not needed comes from, Sure we did cycles for years without it but it undoubtedly improves the ease of hpta recovery and shut down is shut down so why your shut down with test or say test and mast for example - whats the difference? The only time compounds seem to come into play with recovery is when your cycles include 19 nors like deca or tren - they seem to make recovery more difficult for some. Id run hcg through cycle and stop it 3 days pre pct.
Run the stane up to pct - then ditch it. Serms estrogen antagonist as well as agonist effects are what make them effective (especially combining nolva and clomid) dont f with this throwing an unnecessary ai in the mix.
Blood work pre cycle, mid cycle and 6-8 weeks post pct to assess recovery (comparable to pre cycle bloods of course).
Fairly solid Id just make a few tweaks.
Agreed with all except dropping adex in PCT. Had a huge blow up from nolva estro rebound once PCT was over.

OP get hcg and run it low dosed throughout. Might as well ease the transition
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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Hey guys, so I'm starting to get all of this together but have just been reading up on dbol and bloat attached to it. What are your guys experiences with it? I know a strict diet will help the bloat but do you guys think the aroma will keep that away too? Otherwise, do you guys have any other suggestions for a kickstart?
 

Viking23

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As long as you have a quality ai and you have enough bloat should never be a problem on cycle
 
smshannon001

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Hey guys, so I'm starting to get all of this together but have just been reading up on dbol and bloat attached to it. What are your guys experiences with it? I know a strict diet will help the bloat but do you guys think the aroma will keep that away too? Otherwise, do you guys have any other suggestions for a kickstart?
During the dbol dose your aromasin at 12.5 ED.
You may decide after you drop the dbol to go to 6.25 ED, you may need to stay at 12.5mg.
Getting bloods done at week 6 will give you a good idea of how to alter your aromasin based on estradiol readings.

IMO have enough aromasin to run 12.5 ED for the entire cycle. Even better to have extra on hand if you need to bump up to 25mg.

Id use low dose (6.25ED) aromasin into the first week or 2 of pct for its igf increasing properties.
 
StanleyG

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Diet and estrogen management are the key to bloat with any steroid. Dbol is no exception.
As far as AI the good thing about stane is that it is hard to crash e2 levels with it. The primary study done on males with exemestane administered both 25mg/day and then 50mg/day to healthy , young adult males. While e2 dropped significantly in both groups it was still within clinical range. Think about that for a minute. Not on test at all, taking 50mg stane per day, and still within clinical range for e2. Albeit on the very low end of clinical range- still in range. Its a great ai for many reasons and that is one. Id take it at 12.5mg/day and dont be afraid to up it to 25mg/day if mid cycle bloods indicate high e2 .
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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Thanks guys. I'll go ahead with enough aroma to dose higher if needed.
 
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Thanks guys. I'll go ahead with enough aroma to dose higher if needed.
I'd advise have another just incase. On cycle I had a flare while doing 25/day and even 50/day didn't do much and switched to letro and it was taken care of promptly.

Now, if you don't have much estro sides than arooma is a great on cycle AI. I know I'm an exception and not a rule but just sharing my experience.
 

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Adex is probably the best ai. It lowers estrogen slightly more than aroma. Its cheaper and it has a longer half life so less frequent dosing.
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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Adex is probably the best ai. It lowers estrogen slightly more than aroma. Its cheaper and it has a longer half life so less frequent dosing.
You know, I've was going back and forth on this so much and finally came to the (personal) conclusion to go with aroma so that's already ordered...
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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Also, I know you guys have probably responded to this plenty of times but since you've guys helped me so much already, I figured I'll try to milk more out of ya ;)

So I swear my body is just falling apart, shoulder pain, both knees, elbows, wrists... all of thee above haha

When I ran my last cycle of epi/trest, I had great gains on working each body part twice a week but noticed this took a toll on my body

What do you guys think about a program like Jim Stoppani's 12 week shortcut to size while I'm on cycle. I know bb.com "programs" are frowned upon here but the program is actually a pretty traditional bb split. What do you all think?

Thanks!
 
Jiigzz

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IMO it's too long, too high dosed for a first cycle and you don't need Dbol for a first. I'd cut it back to 10 weeks and 400mg Test weekly. Single chem cycles allow you to learn exactly how you respond to that compound. I'd save the remaining Test and Dbol for the next cycle. The longer your testes are without stimulus the harder it is to recover post cycle. This is why low dosed (250-500iu x2 weekly) hCG is ran along side cycle these days. I had a hard time recovering without hCG.

AI doses require blood test to dial in correctly but your proposed dosing is a great place to start. I would cut the AI to E4D during PCT, you want to control it not crush it.
12-14 weeks is fine for a first cycle, especially for longer esters. And you'll know the difference between dbol and test as the dbol kick in will be instant vs. weeks for the test E to kick in.

Agree on the rest
 
smshannon001

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The extra water weight from dbol can help ur joints.

If it's from injuries look into some peptides for healing
I like ipamorelin w/ mod grf 1-29
Or ghrp-2 w/ mod grf 1-29

Listen to your body. If a joint hurts or is still pretty sore than killing that body part is probably counter productive.

I like Jim stoppani but haven't personally tried his programs except I added tabata intervals mid workouts between body parts

For example
Chest work
Tabata 4min
Tri work
Tabata 4min
Abs
Tabata 4min

I liked how I got the cardio done in small bursts cause I'm probe to saying ill do 15min on the stair kill and then leaving halfway through haha
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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Hey guys,

So I posted here a while back about a Test E/Dbol cycle. Well I'm about 7 weeks in now, all finished up with the dbol and really starting to feel the Test E. However, I got a problem that I know most of you are sick of hearing but I just need some advice. I was taking 12.5mg/day of Aromasin during the 28 days of Dbol and got really sensitive nipples. The sensitivity has gone down since I finished the dbol however they're still a little tender to the touch and I can feel bumps underneath. I've been rotating my dosages of aromasin at 12.5mg one day and 6.25mg the next and then back to 12.5mg but I haven't seen an improvement. I'm starting to worry that I make have gotten some bunk aromasin and maybe need to look else where for more aromasin or maybe some letro? I know I can't post the source but I've seen mixed reviews about the source and it was my own dumb fault to even try them out. What do you guys suggest? I have Nolva and Clomid on hand for PCT of course but could use some help.

Thanks!
 
StanleyG

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I suggest you up your stane. Stane is underdosed by many. IMO 6.25mg of stane will not do anything at all. Id do 12.5ed and would not be afraid to up it to 25mg/day split into to 12.5mg doses. Take your Stane with dietary fats, it increases absorption. Stane is a very forgiving ai and much weaker in males than people think. It is also hard to crush your e2 taking stane. In a group of young resistance trained males taking 25 and 50mg of stane per day, while both showed significant drops in e2, it was still in clinical range. Think about that. Thats no exogenous test, 50mgs of stane per day, and e2 still in clinical range.
Up your dose.
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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I suggest you up your stane. Stane is underdosed by many. IMO 6.25mg of stane will not do anything at all. Id do 12.5ed and would not be afraid to up it to 25mg/day split into to 12.5mg doses. Take your Stane with dietary fats, it increases absorption. Stane is a very forgiving ai and much weaker in males than people think. It is also hard to crush your e2 taking stane. In a group of young resistance trained males taking 25 and 50mg of stane per day, while both showed significant drops in e2, it was still in clinical range. Think about that. Thats no exogenous test, 50mgs of stane per day, and e2 still in clinical range.
Up your dose.
Will do, I'll up it to 25mg/day split into 2 doses.

Thanks for the advice
 
StanleyG

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Will do, I'll up it to 25mg/day split into 2 doses.

Thanks for the advice
No prob. If your issues persist after 10-14 days at that dosage- you know you have a quality issue that needs addressing. Keep us updated please.
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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No prob. If your issues persist after 10-14 days at that dosage- you know you have a quality issue that needs addressing. Keep us updated please.
I'll update in 10 days or so. Again, thanks for the help. Hopefully I can get this figured out.
 

Mr_Irrelevant

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I'll update in 10 days or so. Again, thanks for the help. Hopefully I can get this figured out.
Well I know you said 10-14 days at 25mgs but I've also heard that all I need to notice a difference that dosage is about 3-4 days. Anyways its been 6 days now and still no change. I think it's safe to assume its bunk Aromasin which now makes me wonder how my nolva and clomid are. I've been recommended letro from Extreme Peptides. What do you think?
 

KingCrane

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Lots of great advice on this thread! Cycle looks good, i personally never used dbol. Alot of great experienced bros on this thread with some solid advice.
 
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