Is tren as good as it gets?
- 08-12-2014, 07:19 AM
- 08-12-2014, 09:25 AM
- 08-12-2014, 09:39 AM
08-12-2014, 09:41 AM
08-12-2014, 09:43 AM
08-12-2014, 10:04 AM
08-12-2014, 10:37 AM
09-05-2014, 10:35 AM
09-05-2014, 01:04 PM
09-05-2014, 01:16 PM
^^^Right. You arent running it alone, There should be a test base. All sides management starts with proper estrogen management so using an ai to keep e2 in clinical range even when on cycle is one of the most prudent things you can do man.
09-06-2014, 10:48 AM
For me, running tren with higher than TRT dosages of test just increases the side effects without much benefit. TRT dosages don't need an ai. That's all I was getting at
09-06-2014, 11:53 AM
btw- I agree lower test reduces sides when running tren. There is a reduction and easier sides management primarily due to the easier management of e2.
09-08-2014, 05:31 PM
09-08-2014, 08:18 PM
I agree... My TRT dose is 200mgs per week, per my doctor's prescription (but as stated, very few stick to that). At 200 per week I do not need and AI, confirmed by blood panels. I'm at roughly 400 per week now, which is where I always stay at, and I am not using an AI. When I get a moment to get blood work done I'll post my E2 levels at 400mgs per week. Typically my E2 is around 25. Running ridiculously high levels of tren in the past I only used T3 with a base of test at 100mgs.
09-09-2014, 09:06 AM
Hey wheres that blood work showing test levels of 1100 on 500mgs/week?
You know at some point people on here will figure out you are full of crap and dont do of take or do half the **** you say you do and give advice on. Stop making **** up and give solid, experience based, honest advice. Its getting so you cant keep the lies straight.
09-09-2014, 09:14 AM
I will say that 500mg of pure Test Cyp will easily put me in the 2500's on a test.
I cruised at 650-850 on 140mg/wk. Dosed once weekly.
09-09-2014, 09:34 PM
09-09-2014, 09:46 PM
09-09-2014, 09:58 PM
09-09-2014, 10:08 PM
09-09-2014, 10:17 PM
Test Enanthate at 400mgs per week is my base. I usually inject test prop or suspension every other day. The suspension is out of the system so quickly I don't usually count it, but if you want to add it to the average, then it's 400mgs of a long estered test along with short estered test a few times per week. Anyone who has ever used AAS knows that the difference between 400 and 500 mgs of a long estered test per week is negligible... If all you injected was 50mgs of test suspension per day it's not the same as injecting 350mgs of test enanthate per week. Even a moron like Stan should know that. But if he wants to pick my posts apart as if he's some expert on AAS and wants to battle each post I make, perhaps he should take it off line and I'd be glad to let him vent and get it out of his system. We don't even know if he has ever used AAS. He's so full of himself he has no idea what he's saying half the time.
09-09-2014, 10:18 PM
09-09-2014, 10:21 PM
09-09-2014, 10:29 PM
You know, when I read your statement and his asinine comments, it's no wonder guys are all confused as to what to use and how to use it. You can't understand basic math or ester cleavage, and Stan just spouts off stuff off "clinical" studies without knowing first hand how anything actually works. Is there any evidence that Stan has actually ever used AAS?
09-09-2014, 10:38 PM
09-09-2014, 10:51 PM
09-09-2014, 10:53 PM
Easy guys. Let's simmer this down a notch or two.
I'd be more interested in why ur T levels are only 1100 on a 400-500mg/wk dosing.
I easily get an 1100 AVERAGE with only 200mg/wk!
09-09-2014, 10:58 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
09-09-2014, 11:09 PM
My guess is that at my age I'm not responding to AAS as I did a decade or two ago. That's why I pepper my TRT does with suspension or Prop, to give me more available test when I hit the weights. If you're still on AAS when you hit 60+, you'll notice a change in your body's response. I can't quite place my finger on it, but it's noticeable. If I stay at 400mgs of Test E per week, I feel "average." But if I add suspension on 2-3 of the days, I feel a surge that I don't get otherwise. But, the real concern is not your test levels but your RBC, Hemotacrit and for some, E2/DHT. I make note of my test levels, but other values are more of a factor to me. My E2, believe it or not, remains on the low side with no AI/SERM. That's a function of test, so the levels I'm at (400 Test E plus 150 +/- Suspension) seems to have me dialed in. Like I said, my age is going to be a factor and I'm sure that's why my values are different from you younger guys.
09-09-2014, 11:12 PM
How can you not understand what I said? It'd freakin' amazing. But let me ask you this, just to illustrate a point. Do you really think there is any noticeable difference between 400 and 500mgs of test E per week? Do you really think that that difference is going to make a difference?
09-09-2014, 11:24 PM
09-11-2014, 02:39 PM
Well, there is a notable difference switching from test e that's 250mg/ml and test e that's 200mg/ml
And then going to 100mg/ml of prop e/o/d you notice how low it was even more.
So yea, 100mg more per week of test e makes a notable difference for me.
09-11-2014, 02:45 PM
1) androgen receptor downregulation from above average test levels. Might need some LCLT or l-car shots to upregulate the AR in this case. This is what could happen to people over time when on TRT.
BUT this does not sound like what's happening with you. It is possible you are metabolizing test much quicker than normal. I have seen this before in the Male Anti-Aging section of the board. There are some people on TRT who MUST use higher levels of test on TRT (in order to get normal levels) because their bodies are metabolizing test far too quickly. I am not certain of the cause though but it's definitely possible. 400mg a week should have you much higher than 1100, should be around 2000 I'm guessing. How often do you shoot, and how long after injection was the test that showed your levels at 1100?
09-11-2014, 02:48 PM
09-11-2014, 02:49 PM
09-11-2014, 02:55 PM
I don't have proof atm but I do know that Datbtrue claims that steroids can UPREGULATE the receptors, some more than others of course. DTA seems to do this from my experience. Usually if Dat says something definitive, there is some sort of medical literature that supports his claim. Just a thought.
The receptors do get used to the dosing though I do not think it's due to downregulation. U just have to keep upping the dose. Personally, if that's the case, then TRT is impossible to be a lifelong success because you'll always start "feeling like crap" again after a while. Then u need to add more . Then more. And so on.
I'd rather just do long bulking/cutting cycles at productive doses and cycle off with Clomid, L-Carn, Formestane etc for months at a time. I'm debating 6 months on, 6-8 months off.
09-11-2014, 02:59 PM
I've been on TRT around 5 yrs, so far I've felt much better after lowering my dose over time from a starting dose of 200-250mg to about 125mg a week. I know it's not that long though so I'll have to get back to you about this in 10 years hehe
09-11-2014, 03:14 PM
If it's true that it's impossible for the androgen receptor to become down-regulated, it is very easy for the dopamine receptors to down-regulate. Hormones are closely tied in with neurotransmitters. Estrogen has a very close affiliation with serotonin, and DHT/Test is linked in tightly with dopamine. When dopamine receptors are over-used or highly stimulated for a very long time, they will quickly and easily become down-regulated causing all sorts of issues like fatigue, loss of motivation, loss of sex drive, etc.
09-11-2014, 03:20 PM
09-11-2014, 03:27 PM
The androgen receptor however is only responsible for muscle growth and the like. The 'feeling good' sensation whilst on TRT is directly associated to neurotransmitters and their function, so 'not feeling test and needing more over time' while on TRT is not a function of the androgen receptor, it's more a function of the dopamine receptor and the balance of serotonin/dopamine.
Not getting the same gains is another story altogether though.
Anyhow, taking 400mg of test per week and getting levels of 1100 is a sign of an ultra fast test-metabolization issue, not any sort of down-regulation or the like.
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