Consequences of year round blast and cruise
- 12-15-2013, 06:22 PM
- 12-15-2013, 06:44 PM
When are your friends getting their blood drawn? If it's on day 13 and they have levels between 900 and 1200 then something isn't right. Just knowing how esters work and cleave off, the maximum levels will be 5 days post injection. On day 7 (assuming cypionate) the levels will have dropped considerably. On day 14, there will be barely a trace of test in their system. Injecting 250 every two weeks will provide a very unstable serum testosterone level. And that's the problem with long esters, and I consider enanthate and cypionate to be long esters. The cleavage is way to precarious and unpredictable. Whereas a shorter ester, like prop or hex, will be much more stable and available. Injecting 75mgs of prop every other day is way more effective than 250mgs of cyp every two weeks.
12-15-2013, 06:47 PM
I don't know why it would be any different there as opposed to here, but it's well known that if any doc tries to tell you to inject every 2 weeks, you run away. That is a protocol from another era and one you may find here with an inexperienced doctor. Let's just take your example at face value and assume that it is true heshe runs the top of the range 13 days out. That means they are running WAY above any normal limit for almost the entire time between injections. Stop for a minute and think about that and what TRT is supposed to do (hint: keep you within normal limits) and it is easy to see why that is wrong and bad. Not to mention what it must be doing for e2, BP, hematocrit levels along the way.
12-15-2013, 06:53 PM
Also kisaj, again that's a ****load of assumptions and the doctor is a close family member so I have the utmost faith in the doctors ability to keep my friend healthy and give an adequate HRT protocol
12-15-2013, 07:08 PM
I have assumed nothing and only posted what is fairly obvious. Rather than take it personal, just take a step back and try to understand what is being said. Unless you run lab ranges that are completely different and 900-1200 is near the bottom of the range for Australia, then there is no debate. They are running well above normal range almost all the time.
Also, who cares who the doctor is? 2 weeks simply is a hormonal rollercoaster and not a good protocol. Look around here and see why so many people move to an e3.5d type schedule.
12-15-2013, 07:16 PM
12-15-2013, 07:45 PM
12-15-2013, 07:48 PM
12-15-2013, 08:00 PM
No idea what other friends you're talking about
250mg a fortnight is a standard HRT protocol in Australia to get levels into the 700-900 range
http://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/ this site is good, I don't like using them but it demonstrates it nicely
Half life of enanthate is 10.5 days. So in 10.5 days no injections, you will have half the amount as you did day 1
You'll be able to see that even in the worst case part, 13 days post injection you will have 12mg in the blood, this takes into account molecular weight of the ester too. This is 84mg a week going by worst case which is plenty for health, most guys will produce less than this and this is just the last day. It averages at 18mg a day or around 125mg a week.
250mg a week will be even better, as long as you're getting good quality- I suspect most people are getting bunk which is why these myths come about but this is just conjecture.
12-15-2013, 08:11 PM
"The material you read on half lives were probably referring to exponential decay, such as is usual with radioactive materials and true, it follows that fixed rate pattern; however, in your case, you have a pharmaceutical non exponential decay and YES, it is dependent on the original quantity you began with as well as how much is left. It is very conceivable and probable that each phase of the substances' half- life shortens as it continues to be eliminated or lose effectiveness. Other factors such as accumulation in the body, metabolism etc., influences the rate, as well.To sum it up, you are correct..."
At the half life, you have half (in vitro) the amount. Your next half life is 25% of the first. The next is 5% of the first. So after 10 days, you are pretty much at the end of your dose. If 10 days represents the half, then at maybe 13 days, it's over. If you inject 250mgs do you really believe that you will get an even distribution of molecules released into the blood stream over 14 days? Impossible. You will get the most within the first five days. After that the levels start falling off. After 10 days it's usually at the bottom of the chart, near zero.
12-15-2013, 08:22 PM
12-15-2013, 08:29 PM
But I better understand why you feel that 250mgs per week would be a good cruising dose. And as I said, I agree with that unless the man is in his 20s.
12-15-2013, 08:33 PM
12-15-2013, 09:34 PM
12-16-2013, 05:53 AM
12-24-2013, 12:00 PM
So still low , but doctors want to perscribe gel only
But I also would like to cycle again and I'm pretty sure my test levels are nearly at the max at only 5.7 10 months after the cycle
Confusing and worrying at same time as I'm 28 . Either the gel or blast n cruise myself or lastly eurologist advice
12-27-2013, 11:18 PM
01-28-2014, 01:37 AM
To keep me fertile for example if is like another kid in say 2 years time will I have to use hcg guys?? During blasts ... Confusing stuff really
01-28-2014, 03:56 PM
Listen to DH, the man knows his ****. I vary the lengths of my blast and I cruise at 250mg which is higher than I'm prescribed. Hcg is really only cosmetic, if u make te choice to be on trt or hrt u should be aware that u probably won't be able to have kids. It does happen but chances are severally reduced. If u end up wanting kids u can try a blast of hcg followed by clomid. I have seen studies where this works. But again it's not a guaranty. The longer u are on trt the more damage u do being **** down. I made the choice at about ur age and feel like it was the right choice. I wanted kids but have come to terms that I probably won't have my own.
01-28-2014, 04:48 PM
01-28-2014, 05:25 PM
01-28-2014, 05:43 PM
Then the question is whether it is worth toying with hormones for a couple years to possibly struggle to have a child down the road. Knowing several people that face this, it is not something to take lightly and just assume that you'll be able to fix it, if it occurs.
01-28-2014, 05:45 PM
01-28-2014, 05:53 PM
01-28-2014, 05:55 PM
01-28-2014, 11:28 PM
wasnt trying to be depressing, there are ways around it. just have to know that chances are significantly decreased. they were already low thats why im on trt. but i have 2 friends that are on year round and both got there girls pregnant. all though ryan had a black child... and they are both white.
01-28-2014, 11:38 PM
There is alot of science not being mentioned here regarding shutdown and leydig cell damage.
The damage comes through oxidation and shutdown. Science points to the fact that leydig cells do have the ability to stop production and later resume activity however this is highly variable from man to man on exactly what extent.
My suggestion is to run a low dose of hcg EOD to mitigate leydig cell desensitization from said oxidative damage. For good measure, throw in NAC, Tocopherols & tocotrienols, and melatonin at night because all of these reduce leydig cell damage via different ways.
When ready to try for pregnancy, jump on Clomid for 3-4 weeks @ a moderately low dose (<50mg/day). Should work fine. But as with anything, no guarantee.
01-28-2014, 11:38 PM
01-29-2014, 01:11 AM
01-29-2014, 01:21 AM
If I'm blasting with tren should I use low dose hgc until I go back to cruise on trt dose ?? Could this be a possibility to help ?
NAC, Tocopherols & tocotrienols, and melatonin at night this I need to research
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