Consequences of year round blast and cruise

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  1. Interesting about the doses you're taking and the blood levels you're getting
    HRT dose is 250mg every 14 days in Australia and will get you blood levels in the upper normal range. My friend is transgender and this puts him at 900-1200 13 days post injection. Are you using UGL or pharmacy products?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Interesting about the doses you're taking and the blood levels you're getting
    HRT dose is 250mg every 14 days in Australia and will get you blood levels in the upper normal range. My friend is transgender and this puts him at 900-1200 13 days post injection. Are you using UGL or pharmacy products?
    A female will absorb much more test than a male, so drop-per-drop a woman will use more than a man. So it doesn't surprise me about your friend. When I help out female friends with hot flashes, wasting disease and menopause, I give them only .2cc every two weeks and their levels are barley elevated or within range.

    When are your friends getting their blood drawn? If it's on day 13 and they have levels between 900 and 1200 then something isn't right. Just knowing how esters work and cleave off, the maximum levels will be 5 days post injection. On day 7 (assuming cypionate) the levels will have dropped considerably. On day 14, there will be barely a trace of test in their system. Injecting 250 every two weeks will provide a very unstable serum testosterone level. And that's the problem with long esters, and I consider enanthate and cypionate to be long esters. The cleavage is way to precarious and unpredictable. Whereas a shorter ester, like prop or hex, will be much more stable and available. Injecting 75mgs of prop every other day is way more effective than 250mgs of cyp every two weeks.
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  3. I don't know why it would be any different there as opposed to here, but it's well known that if any doc tries to tell you to inject every 2 weeks, you run away. That is a protocol from another era and one you may find here with an inexperienced doctor. Let's just take your example at face value and assume that it is true heshe runs the top of the range 13 days out. That means they are running WAY above any normal limit for almost the entire time between injections. Stop for a minute and think about that and what TRT is supposed to do (hint: keep you within normal limits) and it is easy to see why that is wrong and bad. Not to mention what it must be doing for e2, BP, hematocrit levels along the way.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    A female will absorb much more test than a male, so drop-per-drop a woman will use more than a man. So it doesn't surprise me about your friend. When I help out female friends with hot flashes, wasting disease and menopause, I give them only .2cc every two weeks and their levels are barley elevated or within range.

    When are your friends getting their blood drawn? If it's on day 13 and they have levels between 900 and 1200 then something isn't right. Just knowing how esters work and cleave off, the maximum levels will be 5 days post injection. On day 7 (assuming cypionate) the levels will have dropped considerable. On day 14, there will be barely a trace of test in their system. Injecting 250 every two weeks will provide a very unstable serum testosterone level. And that's the problem with long esters, and I consider enanthate and cypionate to be long esters. The cleavage is way to precarious and unpredictable. Whereas a shorter ester, like prop or hex, will be much more stable and available. Injecting 75mgs of prop every other day is way more effective than 250mgs of cyp every two weeks.
    Well I can't really discuss this without casting assumptions. I'll be getting blood tests early Jan myself, I'll post up the blood levels here.
    Also kisaj, again that's a ****load of assumptions and the doctor is a close family member so I have the utmost faith in the doctors ability to keep my friend healthy and give an adequate HRT protocol

  5. I have assumed nothing and only posted what is fairly obvious. Rather than take it personal, just take a step back and try to understand what is being said. Unless you run lab ranges that are completely different and 900-1200 is near the bottom of the range for Australia, then there is no debate. They are running well above normal range almost all the time.

    Also, who cares who the doctor is? 2 weeks simply is a hormonal rollercoaster and not a good protocol. Look around here and see why so many people move to an e3.5d type schedule.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Well I can't really discuss this without casting assumptions. I'll be getting blood tests early Jan myself, I'll post up the blood levels here.
    Also kisaj, again that's a ****load of assumptions and the doctor is a close family member so I have the utmost faith in the doctors ability to keep my friend healthy and give an adequate HRT protocol
    When you get your blood drawn, make sure you note how long after your last injection, plus everything leading up to it... I understand you trusting a friend, but doctors are the worst source of reliable information when it comes to AAS. They are, as a lot, totally clueless. Some are less clueless than others, but finding a doctor who can readily discuss AAS and do so with clinical backing is nearly impossible. If we were to divide this board up into three tiers, tier one being the most knowledgeable and tier three the novice, most tier two members know more about AAS than their doctors. Not to disrespect your friend, but I would take advice with a grain of salt.

  7. The doctor is an endo, not just some family gp

  8. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    The doctor is an endo, not just some family gp
    Is he the one who prescribed 250mgs of test cyp every two weeks to your friends (not the transgender)?

  9. No idea what other friends you're talking about
    250mg a fortnight is a standard HRT protocol in Australia to get levels into the 700-900 range
    http://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/ this site is good, I don't like using them but it demonstrates it nicely
    Half life of enanthate is 10.5 days. So in 10.5 days no injections, you will have half the amount as you did day 1
    You'll be able to see that even in the worst case part, 13 days post injection you will have 12mg in the blood, this takes into account molecular weight of the ester too. This is 84mg a week going by worst case which is plenty for health, most guys will produce less than this and this is just the last day. It averages at 18mg a day or around 125mg a week.

    250mg a week will be even better, as long as you're getting good quality- I suspect most people are getting bunk which is why these myths come about but this is just conjecture.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    No idea what other friends you're talking about
    250mg a fortnight is a standard HRT protocol in Australia to get levels into the 700-900 range
    http://roidcalc.powerbody.ru/ this site is good, I don't like using them but it demonstrates it nicely
    Half life of enanthate is 10.5 days. So in 10.5 days no injections, you will have half the amount as you did day 1
    You'll be able to see that even in the worst case part, 13 days post injection you will have 12mg in the blood, this takes into account molecular weight of the ester too. This is 84mg a week going by worst case which is plenty for health, most guys will produce less than this and this is just the last day. It averages at 18mg a day or around 125mg a week.

    250mg a week will be even better, as long as you're getting good quality- I suspect most people are getting bunk which is why these myths come about but this is just conjecture.
    Maybe it's the confusion on how half lives work. This is from a post below. My friend, who is a professor in chemistry, provided the response.

    "The material you read on half lives were probably referring to exponential decay, such as is usual with radioactive materials and true, it follows that fixed rate pattern; however, in your case, you have a pharmaceutical non exponential decay and YES, it is dependent on the original quantity you began with as well as how much is left. It is very conceivable and probable that each phase of the substances' half- life shortens as it continues to be eliminated or lose effectiveness. Other factors such as accumulation in the body, metabolism etc., influences the rate, as well.To sum it up, you are correct..."

    At the half life, you have half (in vitro) the amount. Your next half life is 25% of the first. The next is 5% of the first. So after 10 days, you are pretty much at the end of your dose. If 10 days represents the half, then at maybe 13 days, it's over. If you inject 250mgs do you really believe that you will get an even distribution of molecules released into the blood stream over 14 days? Impossible. You will get the most within the first five days. After that the levels start falling off. After 10 days it's usually at the bottom of the chart, near zero.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Maybe it's the confusion on how half lives work. This is from a post below. My friend, who is a professor in chemistry, provided the response.

    "The material you read on half lives were probably referring to exponential decay, such as is usual with radioactive materials and true, it follows that fixed rate pattern; however, in your case, you have a pharmaceutical non exponential decay and YES, it is dependent on the original quantity you began with as well as how much is left. It is very conceivable and probable that each phase of the substances' half- life shortens as it continues to be eliminated or lose effectiveness. Other factors such as accumulation in the body, metabolism etc., influences the rate, as well.To sum it up, you are correct..."

    At the half life, you have half (in vitro) the amount. Your next half life is 25% of the first. The next is 5% of the first. So after 10 days, you are pretty much at the end of your dose. If 10 days represents the half, then at maybe 13 days, it's over. If you inject 250mgs do you really believe that you will get an even distribution of molecules released into the blood stream over 14 days? Impossible. You will get the most within the first five days. After that the levels start falling off. After 10 days it's usually at the bottom of the chart, near zero.
    Yeah I know that.... the calculator accurately depicts this. I didn't say that you'd get an even distribution of test released into the system. Again the calculator shows this. Not sure what you're trying to debate here but you seem to be agreeing with me

  12. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Yeah I know that.... the calculator accurately depicts this. I didn't say that you'd get an even distribution of test released into the system. Again the calculator shows this. Not sure what you're trying to debate here but you seem to be agreeing with me
    Probably... If you have a friend who is a doctor, an endo is the one to have. I would love to talk to him if I lived in Australia. My doctor prescribes 200mgs of test per week for me as TRT. Of course, that's not what I do, but it's his prescription. I would be interested why he prescribes 250 every two weeks. It may be the standard protocol in Australia as you said so he is just in line with the others. Over here there is no standard. It's every doctor doing something different. 100 a week seems to be the norm, although I know some who prescribe 100mgs ever 3-4 weeks. Pure insanity.

    But I better understand why you feel that 250mgs per week would be a good cruising dose. And as I said, I agree with that unless the man is in his 20s.

  13. 200 a week pharma test you're one lucky bastard

  14. Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    200 a week pharma test you're one lucky bastard
    Yeah, I know!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    I have assumed nothing and only posted what is fairly obvious. Rather than take it personal, just take a step back and try to understand what is being said. Unless you run lab ranges that are completely different and 900-1200 is near the bottom of the range for Australia, then there is no debate. They are running well above normal range almost all the time.

    Also, who cares who the doctor is? 2 weeks simply is a hormonal rollercoaster and not a good protocol. Look around here and see why so many people move to an e3.5d type schedule.
    I'm 120 divided Tuesday/Friday

  16. Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    It's good to see you are doing your own research. Keep in mind that at the end of PCT, your body may not be back to normal. PCT is not a science either. It's very possible that you would recover in the same amount of time once you stop with or without PCT, we don't know for sure. PCT is a rule of thumb that makes sense on paper and most guys swear by it, but we don't know really how effective it is or is it necessary. It sure doesn't hurt to follow a program that helps re-start your normal activities. I say this because if you wait 6 weeks while on PCT, then do nothing for two weeks, your body hasn't really re-calibrated. If it were me, I'd wait at least four weeks, get a blood panel to see if everything is back to normal, then decide whether to jump back on. You may be able to blast for 4 months, come off for 2, then back on for 4. That would give you 8 months out of the year that you are on. Just run blood work while you are on, off and see what's going on. Don't rely on how you feel. That way you're making informed decisions and not playing Russian Roulette.
    I've cycles on and off with pct a few years , but came off a tren cycle 10 months ago , done pct got tested n test was 1.4 .,, in uk. So low everything else fsh levels ok though . Then 3 months ago I tested again after yet another clomid nolva pct test was 5.3 so increased . Had blood test results yesterday so 3 months on and is 5.7

    So still low , but doctors want to perscribe gel only
    But I also would like to cycle again and I'm pretty sure my test levels are nearly at the max at only 5.7 10 months after the cycle
    Confusing and worrying at same time as I'm 28 . Either the gel or blast n cruise myself or lastly eurologist advice

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    Holy hell...I'm 38, youngest is 7 and I can't imagine having another baby at my age.

    Good luck to you, sir. You're more patient than I!
    Lol it was definitely more my wife's idea!!
    True story:

    I give a f**K!!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    How old are you? Almost all the salient points have been covered, so I'll just add a few of my own... When you say "blast and cruise" that's usually a phrase used to describe guys like me on lifetime TRT. We can't get off TRT because our natural test is so low, so we cruise to maintain normal levels. (On a side note, I consider my cycles to be blast and blast harder so I never really do true TRT.) So if you have the capability of coming off and producing normal levels of test, then you don't need a cruise phase because it'd be moot plus why compete with the same levels your body can produce naturally? If this is the case, then I'd just blast and come off during the time you propose TRT (cruise). If, however, you want to cruise at higher levels, like maybe 900ng/dl, then you take certain risks. The vast majority of guys can recover after years, even decades, of non-stop AAS. But, you have the very, very few who shut down after a short cycle of nandralone, or even Proscar. I would say that if you are in your 20's, come off and let your body normalize. If you're in your 30's, and you don't really care about kids (not saying that it's a high risk anyway) then go for it. My concern at your age would be the availability of AAS in years to come. It may not always be as easy as it is now. So your source of supply has to be solid. And, after competition, will you still want to do injections at least once a week? To me it's no problem, since I inject ED, 365 days a year. Look at Ronnie Coleman; he hasn't been off his blasting phase for what, 25 years?
    Ive been put on trt, I'm 28 and kid on the way ... However I was hoping to blast say tren 600 test 400 long esters for like 12-14 weeks then go back to trt dose for 12-14 wks then blast again.
    To keep me fertile for example if is like another kid in say 2 years time will I have to use hcg guys?? During blasts ... Confusing stuff really

  19. Listen to DH, the man knows his ****. I vary the lengths of my blast and I cruise at 250mg which is higher than I'm prescribed. Hcg is really only cosmetic, if u make te choice to be on trt or hrt u should be aware that u probably won't be able to have kids. It does happen but chances are severally reduced. If u end up wanting kids u can try a blast of hcg followed by clomid. I have seen studies where this works. But again it's not a guaranty. The longer u are on trt the more damage u do being **** down. I made the choice at about ur age and feel like it was the right choice. I wanted kids but have come to terms that I probably won't have my own.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751

  20. Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Listen to DH, the man knows his ****. I vary the lengths of my blast and I cruise at 250mg which is higher than I'm prescribed. Hcg is really only cosmetic, if u make te choice to be on trt or hrt u should be aware that u probably won't be able to have kids. It does happen but chances are severally reduced. If u end up wanting kids u can try a blast of hcg followed by clomid. I have seen studies where this works. But again it's not a guaranty. The longer u are on trt the more damage u do being **** down. I made the choice at about ur age and feel like it was the right choice. I wanted kids but have come to terms that I probably won't have my own.
    Really? You not even gunna try?
    Thing is the doctor didn't really say anything about no kids ? If like to have more kids one day tho !! Think I'll have to read up abit more mate

  21. Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Listen to DH, the man knows his ****. I vary the lengths of my blast and I cruise at 250mg which is higher than I'm prescribed. Hcg is really only cosmetic, if u make te choice to be on trt or hrt u should be aware that u probably won't be able to have kids. It does happen but chances are severally reduced. If u end up wanting kids u can try a blast of hcg followed by clomid. I have seen studies where this works. But again it's not a guaranty. The longer u are on trt the more damage u do being **** down. I made the choice at about ur age and feel like it was the right choice. I wanted kids but have come to terms that I probably won't have my own.
    It's not all doom and gloom Chris you know that. There's ways around everything these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post
    Really? You not even gunna try? Thing is the doctor didn't really say anything about no kids ? If like to have more kids one day tho !! Think I'll have to read up abit more mate
    There's always options is you want more kids. There's medications that mimic all three hormones required for spermatogenesis. It can get expensive however but it's becoming increasing more prevalent in today's society. I would stress bro that's what fertility doctors are paid for.

  22. Then the question is whether it is worth toying with hormones for a couple years to possibly struggle to have a child down the road. Knowing several people that face this, it is not something to take lightly and just assume that you'll be able to fix it, if it occurs.

  23. sperm bank

  24. yay, AlexPowell saves the day again.

  25. The hero that AnabolicMinds deserves

  26. wasnt trying to be depressing, there are ways around it. just have to know that chances are significantly decreased. they were already low thats why im on trt. but i have 2 friends that are on year round and both got there girls pregnant. all though ryan had a black child... and they are both white.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751

  27. There is alot of science not being mentioned here regarding shutdown and leydig cell damage.

    The damage comes through oxidation and shutdown. Science points to the fact that leydig cells do have the ability to stop production and later resume activity however this is highly variable from man to man on exactly what extent.
    My suggestion is to run a low dose of hcg EOD to mitigate leydig cell desensitization from said oxidative damage. For good measure, throw in NAC, Tocopherols & tocotrienols, and melatonin at night because all of these reduce leydig cell damage via different ways.

    When ready to try for pregnancy, jump on Clomid for 3-4 weeks @ a moderately low dose (<50mg/day). Should work fine. But as with anything, no guarantee.

  28. Hahaha! Nice

  29. I know several guys that have got their girl pregnant on 3-5g cycles. Single 5000ui shot of hCG did it. One of them needed another shot a week later

    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    There is alot of science not being mentioned here regarding shutdown and leydig cell damage.

    The damage comes through oxidation and shutdown. Science points to the fact that leydig cells do have the ability to stop production and later resume activity however this is highly variable from man to man on exactly what extent.
    My suggestion is to run a low dose of hcg EOD to mitigate leydig cell desensitization from said oxidative damage. For good measure, throw in NAC, Tocopherols & tocotrienols, and melatonin at night because all of these reduce leydig cell damage via different ways.

    When ready to try for pregnancy, jump on Clomid for 3-4 weeks @ a moderately low dose (<50mg/day). Should work fine. But as with anything, no guarantee.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    There is alot of science not being mentioned here regarding shutdown and leydig cell damage. The damage comes through oxidation and shutdown. Science points to the fact that leydig cells do have the ability to stop production and later resume activity however this is highly variable from man to man on exactly what extent. My suggestion is to run a low dose of hcg EOD to mitigate leydig cell desensitization from said oxidative damage. For good measure, throw in NAC, Tocopherols & tocotrienols, and melatonin at night because all of these reduce leydig cell damage via different ways. When ready to try for pregnancy, jump on Clomid for 3-4 weeks @ a moderately low dose (<50mg/day). Should work fine. But as with anything, no guarantee.
    Hcg could get expensive if not perscribed ... I'm on trt now .. But havnt asked about anything else I should take ..
    If I'm blasting with tren should I use low dose hgc until I go back to cruise on trt dose ?? Could this be a possibility to help ?
    NAC, Tocopherols & tocotrienols, and melatonin at night this I need to research
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