Tren, Ai, or no Ai?
- 10-09-2013, 06:11 PM
Tren, Ai, or no Ai?
As the title indicates I'm having second thoughts about running an AI while on Tren. At the moment I am running Arimidex and Proviron. Arimidex at 1mg every other day. Proviron 50mg ed. I also plan on running caber starting next week at 1mg a week.
The provi is to harness free test that my receptors might not be using as a result of saturated receptors because of the tren. Also to keep the lady friend happy.
The Arimidex is to prevent the aromatization of the test, that apparently happens with tren e and test e.
The Caber, is maybe a redundancy, but for estrogen side effects. Does this add up? I'm trying to stay as lean as possible. So preventing water weight and bitch tits is a big deal.
What ya'll think help a brotha out.
Oh and as far as injectables I'm running 150 mg test e a week. And 400 mg of tren e a week.
- 10-10-2013, 02:47 PM
That isn't a lot of test, so I would just keep an AI on hand just in case, but I wouldn't think it should be needed. You have prolactin covered with caber so you should be good!!
10-17-2013, 11:02 PM
10-21-2013, 12:37 PM
10-21-2013, 05:54 PM
10-24-2013, 06:17 PM
11-17-2013, 12:52 PM
I always run proviron at 25mgs ed with all my cycles. I love the results, increased libido, additional strength, and increased harness in my muscles. Also always run proviron at 75mgs ed for the first 7 days to reach a stable blood level.
I also always run armosin at 25mgs ED while on tren.
11-17-2013, 10:29 PM
11-21-2013, 04:22 PM
It still might convert. It did for me at that dose. 150 test and 300 Tren, so...
Almost none of that test is gonna bind to the receptor. I'm almost convinced at times that hcg + masteron would be better than running Test with Tren. I wonder if someone would try it lol.
If he runs Tren A, being a shorter half life, could be estrogen free. However, long ester Tren is different and I think should be ran completely different as the rules changes, imo.
11-21-2013, 04:57 PM
11-21-2013, 05:02 PM
Well I see that the OP said he is using Tren E so I can tell ya from experience that around week 5 u might start needing it.
11-21-2013, 05:10 PM
1mg of adex EOD for 150mg of test? That is overkill. Serious overkill. I believe I ran .5mg of Adex 2X a week for 500mg of test, and saw no E2 sides. Don't take AIs lightly, it's not as simple as "take copious amounts just in case." Just like steroids, they have a long list of side-effects that increase in likelihood with higher dosages. Probably the most serious one on my mind would be wrecking your lipid profile, and 1mg EOD could certainly cause such a thing. I would start with no AI, if you feel any estro-related sides, add it in at a very low dose...maybe .25mg 2X a week.
Also, the caber is a good idea, but it's not intended for estrogen sides...it's a dopamine agonist, meaning that it inhibits prolactin, which has had a history of rising with the use of 19-nor steroids.
11-21-2013, 05:53 PM
The overuse of an AI is going to ruin your lipids.
You don't need an AI for 150mg of testosterone nor do you use an AI for Trenbolone.
11-21-2013, 06:55 PM
In theory you shouldnt need it. In practice u might. There is a difference.
The absolute best option would be Masteron at a low dose to avoid the negative sides associated with an AI.
11-21-2013, 07:32 PM
First hand experience tells me that physical appearance of "bloat" and actual E2 don't always match. I have had high E2 and no bloat and <5 E2 and bloat. Both a result of my diet. Both scenarios with 150mg of TRT and TRT&T.
So in this scenario of have it just in case - in case of what? He bloats or holds water? Will he test his E2 to determine he is elevated or will he just take it anecdotally regardless when in actuality his E2 is fine and his diet (although he'll say "spot on") is the culprit.
I'm not saying don't use it but I don't believe it is necessary at all and IMHO the use of an AI is the over-prescribed antibiotic of the AAS world. Neither should be taken as a prophylactic nor without a truly elevated E2 or a bacterial culture.
Masteron is the solution to everything
11-21-2013, 08:55 PM
I didnt have bloat. I had gyno trying to form. Tren gives so much glycogen load and retention that bloat is irrelevant. I'm specifically referring to estrogen + prolactin causing gyno issues as it almost did for me. Had painful lumps startin up and took an AI. After about 7 days on Arimidex that issue went away. Prolactin wont caus3 gyno unless estro is high anyways. But prolactin can also kill sex drive though.
11-21-2013, 11:10 PM
Sometimes its almost as if people are using different testosterone and trenbolone than others as these issues are nonexistent for some.
Prolactin is inherent is trenbolone and will cause gyno to those sensitive to it and estrogen will exacerbate it. It starts with the prolactin and it needs to be manged with caber so there is no need for an AI IMHO.
Although arimidex may have alleviated the acute symptoms I still believe that it would have been better to simply run caber with trenbolone to prevent prolactin gyno from forming at all.
Again, anecdotal means nothing but speculation, which can or could only be conclusive with blood work demonstrating elevated levels of either prolactin or estrogen. IMO
11-21-2013, 11:58 PM
11-22-2013, 06:45 AM
Trenbolone doesn't aromatize. 150mg of test won't raise E2 levels enough to smash with an aromatase inhibitor. My trt is 120 and I usually up it to 150. Even 400mg of test for me and my E2 levels are in range without an AI. While erectile dysfunction may occur on tren+test, use of an AI will only exacerbate the ED. As far as gyno, I highly highly doubt yours was from aromatization. Without blood work, we will never know for sure. But that goes for prolactin also. Cabergoline or pramipexole is the answer for prolactin.
11-22-2013, 09:27 AM
Prolactin inhibitors didn't work as I tried Prami. All it managed to do was make me sick. I think it really depends on how much Tren he runs and for how long. This wasn't something I noticed at week 2, but rather somewhere around weeks 5-8 and by week 9 I had it completely under control again. Just making a point that regardless what the theoretical aspects are, steroids and other hormones can and do interact in ways that doesnt always make sense.
Now I have read in plenty of posts on here from much smarter individuals (old members that aren't active anymore) that showed plenty of evidence that prolactin cannot cause gyno without the presence of estrogen at the site. I will admit that I have followed that rule blindly but it has never let me down. Twice that theory has proven effectively correct for me. Once with a pro dienolone and the other with Tren-E. Kill the estrogen, kill the "prolactin-related gyno".
However, if caber could avoid all of this, and the guy isn't converting all that test over to estro, then I'd say forget the AI since it is bad for his lipid profile and sex drive.
11-22-2013, 11:35 AM
You want caber for your tren.
Now get a blood test and find your test/estro ratio, then decide on an AI.
BTW, B6 also helps sensitive nip issues on lower amounts of tren.
I give a f**K!!
11-23-2013, 06:53 PM
11-23-2013, 07:24 PM
11-23-2013, 09:29 PM
Simply because you do something doesn't mean its right or required. When one of you post up bloodwork that shows trenbolone has elevated your estrogen I'll believe it. Otherwise you are all have Phd's in Bro-science.
11-23-2013, 09:42 PM
I think what the question should have been was. If my estrogen is high will I experience more sides from tren? If so what ai should I use to lower my estrogen?
Or at least I hope that's what he meant.
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11-23-2013, 10:27 PM
If he were using a short ester Tren, this issue would almost be impossible unless he was pinning a bunch ED. Tren doesnt convert. But whatever Test he takes could, even at a lower dose.
I get gyno-related sides at 150mg Test-C by itself so I know it could happen with Tren in the mix as well.
11-23-2013, 10:35 PM
I apologize for the tone.
I'm an engineer by trade and am data analytical and anecdote critical.
It doesn't make you wrong.
11-23-2013, 11:11 PM
11-24-2013, 08:05 AM
11-24-2013, 03:59 PM
Thats exactly what Im trying to avoid. After my last cruise I noticed maybe some very slight gyno so I wanted to nip it in the butt.
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