HCG on cycle..

[tinytony]

Who all runs HCG on cycle and why? What's your science behind it? Proof of why you should versus in PCT? etc. I just notice that loads of people on here do it and it's not recommended by some scientists and previous users. I'm curious why the stress to crosswire the body by using it on cycle? Talk people. Only facts in here. No surmisings or assumptions.

 

[DetroitHammer]

Present some facts that support what you're saying. "Who" is saying that it's not a good idea and why? I'd especially like to see the clinical studies by scientists that say it's a bad idea. I'd love to jam it down their throats.

 

[tinytony]

Present some facts that support what you're saying. "Who" is saying that it's not a good idea and why? I'd especially like to see the clinical studies by scientists that say it's a bad idea. I'd love to jam it down their throats.

This is what I'm asking for from you guys who do it.. Give me evidence that it's a good thing to do. Nobody on here so far has had one reason why other than "it's a good thing to do and a must".

 

[GLHF]

The logic behind taking hcg from let's say second week or start of cycle is that u will have hcg in ur system entire time while on juice and ur balls will b working to an extent at least so when pct comes they were never fully shut down. I get this but I think it's flawed logic.

If u gonna do 6-8 week cycle fine take it from week 3 but if u do a 20-25wrrk cycle an u start taking hcg from start u gonna burn out the Gonads receptors worse than the cycle itself. Remember when u take testosterone let's say, u have so much exogenous test coming in that ur body stops producing it. Well apply that logic to hcg. Also test is kind of a "rough" hormone, compared to fsh and LH they are much more "delicate".

From my knowledge about hormones and collecting experience from sites and real life I think hcg should be used at end of a cycle. Example: test e week 1-10, I'd start hcg week 11 and do 1000iu e3d or so for 4-5 shots leading right into pct and than stop it. That's when u want ur balls to start producing test again.

Now people on HRT, it's a different story. They stay on it I believe while doing trt dose.

I do not have facts and studies but look at any A&P textbook and u will see that fsh and LH are hormones that are very delicate.

This is my opinion.

 

[tinytony]

For starters, in PCT it's not recommended for over 2-3 weeks and at 2000-3000iu. It can desensitize testes to LH. The longterm side effects of this are obvious. And I guess you can run it on cycle too but at like 250-500 only every 2-3 days and you still run risks of desensitizing testes. People on here run it was a higher r than that in cycle. Personally I never plan on running it on cycle. Neither do I plan on running long enough cycles that I can recover with PCT protocol. HCG doesn't stimulate the body to produce much. It replaces and if you don't continue with something else Pronto your test and LH will be sh**. Why guys run it at 2000-3000iu on cycle blows my mind. Unless you're ready for TRT that is scary. It's no wonder people can't occasionally recover froma12 week cycle because they burned their system out. Read William Llewellyn on this.

 

[tinytony]

The logic behind taking hcg from let's say second week or start of cycle is that u will have hcg in ur system entire time while on juice and ur balls will b working to an extent at least so when pct comes they were never fully shut down. I get this but I think it's flawed logic.

If u gonna do 6-8 week cycle fine take it from week 3 but if u do a 20-25wrrk cycle an u start taking hcg from start u gonna burn out the Gonads receptors worse than the cycle itself. Remember when u take testosterone let's say, u have so much exogenous test coming in that ur body stops producing it. Well apply that logic to hcg. Also test is kind of a "rough" hormone, compared to fsh and LH they are much more "delicate".

From my knowledge about hormones and collecting experience from sites and real life I think hcg should be used at end of a cycle. Example: test e week 1-10, I'd start hcg week 11 and do 1000iu e3d or so for 4-5 shots leading right into pct and than stop it. That's when u want ur balls to start producing test again.

Now people on HRT, it's a different story. They stay on it I believe while doing trt dose.

I do not have facts and studies but look at any A&P textbook and u will see that fsh and LH are hormones that are very delicate.

This is my opinion.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It's logical and common sense. I think people don't understand that shutting down test is one thing but killing LH sensitivity is much harder to overcome. Clomid makes my nuts swell big time so at this point for me I'm staying away from HCG until I actually need it according to a cycle I have planned.

 

[DetroitHammer]

Ok, this is my take on PCT in general, and I can back it up. No matter what you do, before, after or during PCT, you will recover. You can stop cold turkey after a hard cycle of Tren, Adrol and test, and you will recover. That's why everyone thinks their protocol is the best, because they ultimately recover. You can take Milk Duds and attribute the recovery to them. The reason you want to use HCG during cycle is to keep the LH/Leydig cells working and not totally shutting down. Dr Crisler, a leading TRT doctor recommends that. But, if you don't, you'll recover. Using clomid, Nolva, and all the other PCT coc ktails are designed to help recovery, but no one knows how well they work, or if they work any better than no PCT. There is no evidence, no empirical evidence, to prove what you want proven. The assumption that everyone is just acting like a bunch of lemmings is inaccurate. I can tell you the pros and cons of your proposed cycle and PCT, but no matter what you do or don't do, you'll recover.

 

[tinytony]

Not saying everyone is acting like lemmings but a lot of people definitely are. Just trying to separate that out. No need to take it personally if you aren't a dude just playing follow the leader.

 

[DetroitHammer]

Not saying everyone is acting like lemmings but a lot of people definitely are. Just trying to separate that out. No need to take it personally if you aren't a dude just playing follow the leader.

Not taking this personally but you are the one who said he had proof that scientists recommended not using HCG on cycle, then failed to provide any citation. So who are the scientists who advise against it? I want to read their clinical studies. Previous users are just previous users, some are educated, some are not, so unless you have some way to qualify their comments, we can dismiss their views when compared to the scientists you elude to.

About 90% of the guys on AAS have no idea why they use Nandrolone Deconate; they repeat what some gym rat told them. Same thing with front loading, esters and so on. The doctors I know and those who's opinions I respect support using 250-500iu of HCG while on cycle. But if you don't use it, you will still recover and I think that is your ultimate question.

 

[tinytony]

Not taking this personally but you are the one who said he had proof that scientists recommended not using HCG on cycle, then failed to provide any citation. So who are the scientists who advise against it? I want to read their clinical studies. Previous users are just previous users, some are educated, some are not, so unless you have some way to qualify their comments, we can dismiss their views when compared to the scientists you elude to.

About 90% of the guys on AAS have no idea why they use Nandrolone Deconate; they repeat what some gym rat told them. Same thing with front loading, esters and so on. The doctors I know and those who's opinions I respect support using 250-500iu of HCG while on cycle. But if you don't use it, you will still recover and I think that is your ultimate question.

Yeah I'll admit right here and now that I missed a valuable short piece of the article I read. It sounds I've it's largely used on cycle to just keep balls plump and keep them from atrophying. But I guess that side effect doesn't worry me as long as I get good test levels within a few days of my cycle. HCG is too touchy for me when it comes to possibly ruining the production/reception of some hormones. But this is all good for me to read and learn. I also read about this Dr. you were talking about and I'd follow his advice. Seems very trustworthy. I still probably would rather do HCG either post or the very last portion of my cycle. The input in this thread is good. Give me some trustworthy insight on this subject. I got some of my info from Anabolics book. By William Llewellyn. He's also a guy I trust.

 

[tinytony]

Sometimes I wish we had more threads like this to get people going and to dredge up good research and so I along with everyone else can actually learn more. And fill in the gaps between what we already know.

 

[DetroitHammer]

The one thing about those of us on AAS, is that we have to do the research, we have to educate ourselves because we are literally taking our lives in our hands. We have to depend on each other. Researchers can't study our life style because no one would fund them to conduct a study since it's largely an underground, "illegal" activity. So we piece together studies that are relevant, ask questions like you are and do what makes the most sense. A lot of what we know is based on trial and error. I have made many errors... I would say that if HCG gives you reason to pause, then don't use it. I honestly don't think it will make that much of a difference either way. I personally recommend it, but question how much difference it truly makes for a guy on a cycle. Plus you're at an age where recovery is all but certain.

 

[tinytony]

The one thing about those of us on AAS, is that we have to do the research, we have to educate ourselves because we are literally taking our lives in our hands. We have to depend on each other. Researchers can't study our life style because no one would fund them to conduct a study since it's largely an underground, "illegal" activity. So we piece together studies that are relevant, ask questions like you are and do what makes the most sense. A lot of what we know is based on trial and error. I have made many errors... I would say that if HCG gives you reason to pause, then don't use it. I honestly don't think it will make that much of a difference either way. I personally recommend it, but question how much difference it truly makes for a guy on a cycle. Plus you're at an age where recovery is all but certain.

Yeah i agree. Experience is the best teacher, providing a guy doesn't do something drastically wrong and makes permanent damage. Therefore use caution.

 

[El Hefe]

The only pro to to running HCG is to keep the nuts plump and semi-functional and then the transition into PCT and full recovery is that much easier and smother. Rather than trying to resurrect from the grave.

 

[Lukef2000]

On my computer I've got a shítload of studies regarding hcg usage. I'm on vacation at the moment but when I get back to Australia ill post them up for you. A few key pieces. Running high dosages of hcg can desensitize leydig cells so to me I would never "blast" high dosages. HCG is suppressive to LH so should not be used in pct when your trying to get your natural LH back into normal ranges. From the studies I have they show there is no additional benefit from using anything more than 250iu in each shot.
I will link up these studies when I get home on Saturday or Sunday.