Confusion over AI vs SERM

  1. Registered User
    1976pianoman's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    200
    Answers
    0

    Question Confusion over AI vs SERM


    I am planning a test cycle with an oral SD kickstart. Because I have MPB I will be taking finasteride on cycle to minimize hair loss. I read the following at another site in regard to test and finasteride (proscar):

    All of these are different testosterone preparations, they all have the same properties as far as hairloss is concerned: they convert to DHT via 5-alpha-reductase enzyme. That's the main reason why testosterone is so androgenic. However, if one takes testosterone along with a 5AR blocker such as Proscar it's not nearly that harmful for your hair. So, if you are concerned about hairloss and are taking testosterone, always use it along with Proscar. Take into account that DHT is an anti-estrogen and blocking it while your body has supraphysiological levels of testosterone might lead to gynecomastia, so it's advisable to combine Proscar with Arimidex (an aromatase inhibitor).

    I wasn't planning on getting an AI. I thought Nolvadex for PCT and possibly on-cycle would be sufficient. Do I need an AI as well? I understand there are two different types of gyno if my memory serves me correctly, and maybe there might be cause to need an AI over a SERM in this regard? Also, do I take either Nolva or the AI right off the bat on cycle, or do I wait to see if I develop gyno and then take it? I was planning on a standard Nolva + Clomid PCT. If indeed I need an AI on cycle do I also need one for PCT? Thank you.


  2. Registered User
    DetroitHammer's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,198
    Answers
    0


    That's about it. If you want to control DHT, you need to watch the E2. I would take Aromasin during cycle to combat the E2. Start right away. You may have ED problems when you block the DHT. Otherwise, you pretty much nailed it.
  3. Registered User
    1976pianoman's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    200
    Answers
    0


    So for PCT should I continue the Aromasin and ditch the Nolva or should I run all three - clomid, nolva and aromasin? Also do I need to run Nolva while on-cycle in addition to the Aromasin? I used to think "no" but I just saw a beginners bulk stack on a source site showing nolva on cycle. So I'm confused. Thanks.
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    DetroitHammer's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,198
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by 1976pianoman View Post
    So for PCT should I continue the Aromasin and ditch the Nolva or should I run all three - clomid, nolva and aromasin. Also do I need to run Nolva while on-cycle in addition to the Aromasin? I used to think "no" but I just saw a beginners bulk stack on a source site showing nolva on cycle. So I'm confused. Thanks.
    I never PCT, but I'll give you my advice. Use Aromasin on cycle. Once you start PCT, you can switch over to Comid and Nolva if you want. I'd stick with Clomid/Aromasin, but like I said, I never PCT. Do not use Nolva on cycle. Use a good AI like Aromasin.
  5. Registered User
    1976pianoman's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    200
    Answers
    0


    Thank you very much. Big help.
  6. Registered User
    Stoni9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    59
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by 1976pianoman View Post
    I am planning a test cycle with an oral SD kickstart. Because I have MPB I will be taking finasteride on cycle to minimize hair loss. I read the following at another site in regard to test and finasteride (proscar):
    From what I've read, finasteride works only if you keep taking it. Say you stop taking it after 2 years, your body basically catches up for those 2 years of you not losing hair.

    Only use it if you plan on using it for a long time.
  7. Registered User
    DetroitHammer's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  250 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,198
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by Stoni9 View Post
    From what I've read, finasteride works only if you keep taking it. Say you stop taking it after 2 years, your body basically catches up for those 2 years of you not losing hair.

    Only use it if you plan on using it for a long time.
    Where did you read that? I find that absurd, but I'd like to see the reference.
  8. Registered User
    1976pianoman's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    200
    Answers
    0


    Actually, as strange as it sounds, I think it's true. A doctor told me this as well. The same applies to topical foam, and the manufacturers of the foam are very clear about this: Once you start you cannot ever stop. This does not apply to AAS related hair-loss though. Only MPB. Minox and fina will slow (and occasionally stop) the progression of MPB related shedding. If you stop, what happens is that your scalp will return to the state it would have been in if you had never used the treatments. You cannot keep your gains (ha, gains!) in the way of your hair if they are MPB related gains made via minox and/or fina without the continued used of minox and/or fina. I've heard it's a terrible thing to experience. If you have been on these products for years and you stop you basically go bald in a very short period of time.

    If you are just using these products during isolated phases during AAS cycles to prevent shedding and you don't have substantial MPB, you have nothing to worry about.

    While I'm new to the AAS realm, I'm pretty well educated in the way of MPB. I've been taking fina and using foam for many years now.
  9. Registered User
    classic27's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    238
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by 1976pianoman View Post
    I am planning a test cycle with an oral SD kickstart. Because I have MPB I will be taking finasteride on cycle to minimize hair loss. I read the following at another site in regard to test and finasteride (proscar):

    All of these are different testosterone preparations, they all have the same properties as far as hairloss is concerned: they convert to DHT via 5-alpha-reductase enzyme. That's the main reason why testosterone is so androgenic. However, if one takes testosterone along with a 5AR blocker such as Proscar it's not nearly that harmful for your hair. So, if you are concerned about hairloss and are taking testosterone, always use it along with Proscar. Take into account that DHT is an anti-estrogen and blocking it while your body has supraphysiological levels of testosterone might lead to gynecomastia, so it's advisable to combine Proscar with Arimidex (an aromatase inhibitor).

    I wasn't planning on getting an AI. I thought Nolvadex for PCT and possibly on-cycle would be sufficient. Do I need an AI as well? I understand there are two different types of gyno if my memory serves me correctly, and maybe there might be cause to need an AI over a SERM in this regard? Also, do I take either Nolva or the AI right off the bat on cycle, or do I wait to see if I develop gyno and then take it? I was planning on a standard Nolva + Clomid PCT. If indeed I need an AI on cycle do I also need one for PCT? Thank you.

    I have done many test cycles and found that its best to always start with a low dose ai like Adex. It's better to be safe than sorry. I start with .5 mg adex eod. This prevents sides, gives me a nice hard look, doesn't hinder gains, and gives me a little less worry. Pct I go with a serm, usually nolva, and run it for about a month
  10. Registered User
    1976pianoman's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    200
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by classic27 View Post
    I have done many test cycles and found that its best to always start with a low dose ai like Adex. It's better to be safe than sorry. I start with .5 mg adex eod. This prevents sides, gives me a nice hard look, doesn't hinder gains, and gives me a little less worry. Pct I go with a serm, usually nolva, and run it for about a month
    You find that Nolva alone is sufficient? I've had shutdown issues remain after a Nolva PCT. So I was thinking of including Clomid.
  11. Registered User
    classic27's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    238
    Answers
    0


    Quote Originally Posted by 1976pianoman View Post
    You find that Nolva alone is sufficient? I've had shutdown issues remain after a Nolva PCT. So I was thinking of including Clomid.
    The combination of nolvadex and time has always been sufficient for me, but everyone is a little different. Try a clomid and nolva combo or try clomid only and have some nolva on hand just in case you need it. A lot of my knowledge has come from trial and error. I try to stay away from error, but you do have your own learning experiences when playing with this stuff. I have also tried tore and it worked great so you might want to try it. Personally I had a bad experience with clomid not working, so I won't be using it again, but I know it works for others.
  12. Registered User
    1976pianoman's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    200
    Answers
    0


    It's funny you mention "time". Cause I think that's possibly what actually fixed me. When my Nolva PCT kinda failed (30 days and still shutdown) I ordered clomid, but never received it, so instead I ended up taking PES Erase, which seemed to fix me practically overnight. But taking into consideration all the facts, it may not have been the Erase that actually did it, rather just the fact that I was 2 months post cycle by the time I starting taking the Erase. Enough time had passed that I was bound to bounce back at that point anyway.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. AI vs SERM while "ON" for gyno treatment
    By Max32 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-15-2008, 03:33 PM
  2. AI and SERM On cycle?
    By pistonpump in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-06-2006, 01:21 AM
  3. Burma's confusion over capital
    By yeahright in forum Politics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-20-2006, 09:36 PM
  4. Synovex Prop/Tren- AI or SERM on cycle?
    By Irish Cannon in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-12-2006, 02:49 PM
  5. Best On Cycle AI or SERM
    By CNorris in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-30-2006, 07:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in