Look over my first cycle

[Martinezalvin]

test e 500 mg a week for 12 weeks
kick start dbol 40 mg everyday for six weeks
Arimidex .5 eod the whole cycle
hcg 500 ius twice a week whole cycle

pct

Day 1-16 : 1000iu HCG every other day.

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg arimidex (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily

[Killler]

I wouldn`t use HCG in PCT,only on cycle.

[Martinezalvin]

ok, as for the top for the ai do you think the dosage is to high for the pct?
i dont want my libido to go down

[Gerbil]

ok, as for the top for the ai do you think the dosage is to high for the pct?
i dont want my libido to go down

For me with my exemestane that would tank my estro in a heartbeat. Try 12.5mg ed first then adjust accordingly.

[Lukef2000]

test e 500 mg a week for 12 weeks
kick start dbol 40 mg everyday for six weeks
Arimidex .5 eod the whole cycle
hcg 500 ius twice a week whole cycle

pct

Day 1-16 : 1000iu HCG every other day.

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg arimidex (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily

Cycle looks good. Nice and simple for a first cycle, you should yield some nice gains if your training etc is in check. Couples things 1. Hcg is suppressive to natural LH production so stop
It 5-7 days before pct. 2. Damn that's a lot of clomid! 100/50/50/25 is plenty. You won't yield recover any quicker with higher dosages. Your just opening yourself up for more sides.

[02sixxer]

Cycle looks good. Nice and simple for a first cycle, you should yield some nice gains if your training etc is in check. Couples things 1. Hcg is suppressive to natural LH production so stop
It 5-7 days before pct. 2. Damn that's a lot of clomid! 100/50/50/25 is plenty. You won't yield recover any quicker with higher dosages. Your just opening yourself up for more sides.

seconded!

[GreenEarth]

Adex @ .25 EOD unless you see signs of gyno, no need to tank estro and limit gains/create achy joints
HCG @ 250ius 2X per week, no need for 500ius, just want to mildly stimulate that LH
Start HCG a week or two into your cycle, with your moderate dosages testicular atrophy will not be instantaneous
No HCG in PCT
I would run clomid at 100mg for 3 days, switch to 50mg for 4 days, keep running 50 for 2 weeks, then drop to 25 for the last week. It's still a pharmaceutical drug with its own list of side effects, piling it on "just to be safe" could be counter-productive.
I don't understand the adex in PCT...are you actually trying to run 20mg of adex daily? Maybe you meant aromasin...20mg of adex is not a good idea

Don't forget that HCG is associated with aromatization and estro-rebound...keep the dosage where you need it to achieve the results you want, don't super-dose to be safe. Once again...support supps which are still drugs have side effects too, running them higher than necessary may just hurt you more than it helps.

[Underdeal]

Maybe I'm way off but I have read multiple times that running a SERM and an AI in PCT is counter productive. From my understanding the SERM is used to allow your E to stay high but selectively bind to receptors to avoid things like Gyno etc from surfacing. This higher E in your body is an indicator for your body to compensate by kick starting your Test production to counter the high E and achieve its natural "equalibrium".

If you run an AI to crush your E levels then your SERM is near useless and your body is slower to kick start T production in response to higher E levels becuase your E levels are bottomed out.

This is a very lamens way of writing the actual process, but I hope it makes sense.

If I have been mis informed I am happy to be corrected

[DetroitHammer]

This higher E in your body is an indicator for your body to compensate by kick starting your Test production to counter the high E and achieve its natural "equalibrium".

This is way off.... Not even close. Think about it, it doesn't even make sense. It's debatable whether you need both an AI and SERM or only one or the other. A SERM does lower your E2, just not the same way an AI does and not as completely. Someone will jump in here and explain how some SERMs will help kick start your natural test (just not the way you described). I don't have the energy right now to go into a credible explanation.

[Underdeal]

This is way off.... Not even close. Think about it, it doesn't even make sense. It's debatable whether you need both an AI and SERM or only one or the other. A SERM does lower your E2, just not the same way an AI does and not as completely. Someone will jump in here and explain how some SERMs will help kick start your natural test (just not the way you described). I don't have the energy right now to go into a credible explanation.

Ok cool! I was just parroting what i have seen written by people elsewhere on forums. Thanks for pointing out that it is wrong.

I look forward to finding out what is right. Cheers!

[02sixxer]

Maybe I'm way off but I have read multiple times that running a SERM and an AI in PCT is counter productive. From my understanding the SERM is used to allow your E to stay high but selectively bind to receptors to avoid things like Gyno etc from surfacing. This higher E in your body is an indicator for your body to compensate by kick starting your Test production to counter the high E and achieve its natural "equalibrium".

If you run an AI to crush your E levels then your SERM is near useless and your body is slower to kick start T production in response to higher E levels becuase your E levels are bottomed out.

This is a very lamens way of writing the actual process, but I hope it makes sense.

If I have been mis informed I am happy to be corrected

Not accurate. To each their own, however, I am a believer that both a SERM and AI should be used for PCT.

As your un-natural test drops, and you start making nati test again, you still have a high level of estro from the higher level of test you had in your system. To keep that estro lower you run a low dose AI and to keep the nipples safe and to kickstart you nati test production you run your SERM. you taper both your AI and SERM so the body can start to reach homeostasis on it's own.

If you argue why run a SERM if your running an AI or vice versa. It's really simple, if you are running an AI you are doing it to help control estrogen not crush it. So you still have estrogen. Depending on the AI you may not be running a suicide inhibitor and it still allows for the conversoin to estro. When you are in PCT, unless you have a estrogen side, such as gyno, you should not crush your estro to nothing. You should run a LOW DOSE AI, which allows for estrogen to be present in the body. The SERM ran with the AI will keep the Estro from causing gyno and kickstart the testosterone production.

If you only run a SERM, and no AI you can have other estro sides if the test in your body is high, and if you are coming off an aromatising compound it can aromatise. If that compound can aromatise and you have way to much estro. Or if you ar not running a aromatising comound the test that your body is producing from the SERM and Test boosters can be higher then nati test and aromatise.

Here is an example: My nati Test 343
My test when on Nolva and DAA 783


That is my .02. Take it how you want it, I could care less how anny one does their PCT, because it does not affect me in any way. There is more science I tried to make sure it was understanable to any reader.

[Underdeal]

02sixxer. Thanks heaps for that. Makes very good sense to me.

I read so many different things I think I get confused between it all but what you wrote helped me alot! Thanks!