First Dbol and Test E cycle

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    Smile First Dbol and Test E cycle


    Hi all, im 25 and from the u.k
    I am planning on doing my first d-bol and test E cycle.

    my stats are
    Male
    25
    5' 8.4"
    11.1 stone (71kg)
    bmi 23.4
    Body fat 12.3
    consuming 4000+ calories a day

    Have been training for many years on and off, and now feel i want to step up a gear so i want too try a dbol and test e cycle.

    my intended plan is:

    week 1-10: dbol (40 per day)
    week 1-12: test e (500 per week. two 250 injections mon and thursday)
    week 12-14; nothing.
    week 14 pct course

    I was just wondering wether it is possible to bulk up and keep your body fat down?
    im eating 5 meals per day plus two protien shakes (at 1000 calories and 50g protein each, fulll fat milk)
    will cardio do this?
    exuse my slight ignorance.

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    i will upload photos and lifting atats when i reach 50 posts which will be soon hopefully!
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    Dbol is rough on the liver. You shouldn't run it for ten weeks, 4-6 weeks would be plenty for s kickstart.
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    Name:  why.jpg
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    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    hi druller. I just want to run it early to kick start as the test wont kick in hard until 5 weeks onwards, so maybe 1-4 on dbol, instead on 4-6?
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    gerbil, any advice please? iv done all my research on this site and have been reading through the forum for about a month, and have saw your posts before and know you have good knowledge, so advice please
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    Run Dbol at 50mg for no more than 6 weeks
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Run Dbol at 50mg for no more than 6 weeks
    This
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenm View Post
    hi druller. I just want to run it early to kick start as the test wont kick in hard until 5 weeks onwards, so maybe 1-4 on dbol, instead on 4-6?
    He meant run the dbol for 4-6 weeks max not for weeks 4-6 of cycle.

    So run the dbol from week 1 to week 6 then stop.
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    i would cut it to an 8-10 wk cycle and run dbol (30-40mg day) for wks 1-4 and get some winny (40-50mg day) for wks 5-8 .. run the test (500mg) and get some deca or eq (400mg) to go with it for wks 1-8.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abs322 View Post
    i would cut it to an 8-10 wk cycle and run dbol (30-40mg day) for wks 1-4 and get some winny (40-50mg day) for wks 5-8 .. run the test (500mg) and get some deca or eq (400mg) to go with it for wks 1-8.
    No, no, no. Deca and eq are very long esters 8 weeks would be silly and just postpone pct. Then saying oh less harmful then d-bol for 8 weeks is less hepatoxic d-bol then more hepatoxic winny added in there.

    Do you have any idea what you are talking about or parroting not very bright people.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    i said 8 or 10 wks.. nothing wrong with either. i would personally do 10 wks and take a 2 wk break on the orals in the middle, either way 4 weeks of winny and 4 wks of dbol stacked with test and eq or deca has been done many times by many people with great results.. i would start pct 2 wks after last shot. run some milk thistle if liver issues are a concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abs322 View Post
    i said 8 or 10 wks.. nothing wrong with either. i would personally do 10 wks and take a 2 wk break on the orals in the middle, either way 4 weeks of winny and 4 wks of dbol stacked with test and eq or deca has been done many times by many people with great results.. i would start pct 2 wks after last shot. run some milk thistle if liver issues are a concern.
    I see what your say. My opinion with orals especially with very hepatoxic oral is this.. you shouldn't stack them, you can run multiple ones during a cycle BUT you need to let the first clear your system before the next one is started. This allows your liver to take a break and heal/recover before you wage chemical warfare on it again.

    Like I said that's my OPINION. No science to back up the theory other than my blood work on cycles. I love running orals for kickers and finishers and I do it at very high doses so that's why I give my liver a couple weeks between.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Dbol for the first 4 weeks is sound. Stanzabol for 4wks after a 2 week pause is ok, especially if you inject it because there is more nitrogen retention when you inject it and it's easier on your liver. Running Test e for all or most of the cycle is also good. But the last phase I would run either mast or tren with the Stanzabol/test. Equip is just glue in your veins waiting to harden and I've already said enough about deca; it's never a good idea to take Deca.

    Quote Originally Posted by abs322 View Post
    i said 8 or 10 wks.. nothing wrong with either. i would personally do 10 wks and take a 2 wk break on the orals in the middle, either way 4 weeks of winny and 4 wks of dbol stacked with test and eq or deca has been done many times by many people with great results.. i would start pct 2 wks after last shot. run some milk thistle if liver issues are a concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Dbol for the first 4 weeks is sound. Stanzabol for 4wks after a 2 week pause is ok, especially if you inject it because there is more nitrogen retention when you inject it and it's easier on your liver. Running Test e for all or most of the cycle is also good. But the last phase I would run either mast or tren with the Stanzabol/test. Equip is just glue in your veins waiting to harden and I've already said enough about deca; it's never a good idea to take Deca.
    Why never a good idea to take deca?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeybhoy7 View Post
    Why never a good idea to take deca?
    It's weak and super suppressive and that suppression cannot be controlled by AI/SERMs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post

    It's weak and super suppressive and that suppression cannot be controlled by AI/SERMs.
    I've always been led to believe deca gives slow but stead and lean gains? So what would you recommend as a bulking cycle? I'm currently running test deca and dbol. Only one week into cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeybhoy7 View Post
    I've always been led to believe deca gives slow but stead and lean gains? So what would you recommend as a bulking cycle? I'm currently running test deca and dbol. Only one week into cycle.
    start ur own thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Dbol for the first 4 weeks is sound. Stanzabol for 4wks after a 2 week pause is ok, especially if you inject it because there is more nitrogen retention when you inject it and it's easier on your liver. Running Test e for all or most of the cycle is also good. But the last phase I would run either mast or tren with the Stanzabol/test. Equip is just glue in your veins waiting to harden and I've already said enough about deca; it's never a good idea to take Deca.

    He said it's his 1st cycle so im trying to keep it simple & not make him a pin cushion yet.. test & deca or eq is fairly mild and only reqs two shots a week. i personally like tren & mast but depending on the ester i would normally run that with prop on a eod or e2d inject sched, not really a program for beginners. same deal if he had inj winny, i would tell him to drink it instead of daily injects to start out.
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    some like deca some dont, its more of a personal preference type gear and availability is always a deciding factor..personally i prefer eq, problem is finding a quality vet source for your horse.. QV isnt around anymore at least wityh deca you can stil get the organon made stuff, just watch for fakes. the problems with deca is the hpta suppression, deca dick and progesterone gyno along with lingering metabolites which could show up on a lab test if thats a concern. its believed winny will counter the progesterone or some take proviron or caber.. its "weak' in the sense its a safe choice like ananvar, primo, maxibolan, etc, more anabolic than androgenic..however if your stacking 400mg wk with 500mg test cyp/en the gains should be solid. i would frontload the 1st wk. tren is also found to have progesterone sides ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by abs322 View Post

    He said it's his 1st cycle so im trying to keep it simple & not make him a pin cushion yet.. test & deca or eq is fairly mild and only reqs two shots a week. i personally like tren & mast but depending on the ester i would normally run that with prop on a eod or e2d inject sched, not really a program for beginners. same deal if he had inj winny, i would tell him to drink it instead of daily injects to start out.
    I see why you recommended the long esters but I agree with Detroit and am not a DECA fan. I don't like eq because it makes your blood thicker but plenty of people use it and love the results. I would run eq over deca if I had to pick between the 2. Just me tho. To each their own.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Yes, it's a personal choice, just like someone saying they like crack cocaine and some don't. Like it or not, it's not good. You can't control the sides you get with Deca. The one reference I provided helps explain why. Anyone who says they've used it with great gains, are usually on test/tren/etc. So of course you're going to see gains, but you can't attribute them to deca with all the other gear in you. Someone would have to run a straight cycle on only nandrolone, which is not good, to see how much the gains are compared to test.

    Quote Originally Posted by abs322 View Post
    some like deca some dont, its more of a personal preference type gear and availability is always a deciding factor..personally i prefer eq, problem is finding a quality vet source for your horse.. ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Yes, it's a personal choice, just like someone saying they like crack cocaine and some don't. Like it or not, it's not good. You can't control the sides you get with Deca. The one reference I provided helps explain why. Anyone who says they've used it with great gains, are usually on test/tren/etc. So of course you're going to see gains, but you can't attribute them to deca with all the other gear in you. Someone would have to run a straight cycle on only nandrolone, which is not good, to see how much the gains are compared to test.
    fair enough, ive only run deca with test and an oral, so technically i cant say the deca did great for producing anything but then again i cant say it didnt either, ive used EQ more than deca and always had great overall gains with the stack. i never ran less than a 500/400 combo of test/deca or eq though and have always used 2 orals with it. I would just have to fall back on the scientific literature of deca being a protein sparing anabolic useful in maintaining a positive nitrogen balance especially in low calorie restricted diets like when cutting up with anavar, primo etc..

    article in Muscular Devlpmnt:

    .musculardevelopment.com/articles/chemical-enhancement/532-in-praise-of-nandrolone.html (add http & www)


    some med journal studies of deca alone:

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15076791 (add http & www)

    jasn.asnjournals.org/content/17/8/2307.abstract (add http)

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15767536 add http & www

    jcem.endojournals.org/content/84/4/1268.long (add http)
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephenm View Post
    gerbil, any advice please? iv done all my research on this site and have been reading through the forum for about a month, and have saw your posts before and know you have good knowledge, so advice please
    Best advice you can get - do your research in multiple places not just this site and especially not this thread - here are a few ridiculous comments from this thread:

    1) Deca is weak - Deca has been a cornerstone of bodybuilding for 50 years, and it still works - plus it has been scientifically proven to be more anabolic than testosterone - stronger per mg
    2) Most of the gains people see on deca is while they are on test/tren - deca is rarely stacked with tren
    3 Deca sides can't be controlled- keep the test dose at trt level and deca will have very little/zero sides at 600mg per week in most people - it aromatizes at about 1/4 the rate of testosterone and when testosterone is kept in normal trt ranges prolactin is typically not an issue.
    4) Don't do Deca because it is highly suppressive - every AAS cycle of 8+ weeks is going to put your natural production to ZERO and deca doesn't give you negative levels so a 12 week test cycle is the same thing. (deca ester is longer though)
    5) Do and 8 week deca or EQ cycle - right when it kicks in you will be coming off the cycle - it's dumb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupes View Post
    Best advice you can get - do your research in multiple places not just this site and especially not this thread - here are a few ridiculous comments from this thread:

    1) Deca is weak - Deca has been a cornerstone of bodybuilding for 50 years, and it still works - plus it has been scientifically proven to be more anabolic than testosterone - stronger per mg
    2) Most of the gains people see on deca is while they are on test/tren - deca is rarely stacked with tren
    3 Deca sides can't be controlled- keep the test dose at trt level and deca will have very little/zero sides at 600mg per week in most people - it aromatizes at about 1/4 the rate of testosterone and when testosterone is kept in normal trt ranges prolactin is typically not an issue.
    4) Don't do Deca because it is highly suppressive - every AAS cycle of 8+ weeks is going to put your natural production to ZERO and deca doesn't give you negative levels so a 12 week test cycle is the same thing. (deca ester is longer though)
    5) Do and 8 week deca or EQ cycle - right when it kicks in you will be coming off the cycle - it's dumb
    My friend, I like that u draw on personal experience (best kind of data imo), but you are one case. The truth is detroit hammer is right in what hes saying. Remember he is speaking in terms of relativity to other drugs. U got over 10 years on me and i can tell u that most of the successful up and coming athletes are skipping deca entirely for the reasons DH mentioned. Decas true medical benefit is mostly attributed joint healing. And not to be a dick, but tren/deca stacks ive seen become more common than just test and deca. But once again, I TOO am a single case. Decca should be run no less than 14 weeks to really make its effects worth the suppression.
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    Oh and btw, being that we are referring to long ester nandrolone....the sides are very difficult to control as itll take a few weeks to clear if bailing becomes necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by figdaddy View Post
    My friend, I like that u draw on personal experience (best kind of data imo), but you are one case. The truth is detroit hammer is right in what hes saying. Remember he is speaking in terms of relativity to other drugs.
    Relative to Tren/Orals, yes it's weak. Relative to Testosterone/EQ - it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by figdaddy View Post
    U got over 10 years on me and i can tell u that most of the successful up and coming athletes are skipping deca entirely for the reasons DH mentioned.
    Nandrolone had a bad rep for many many years but is gaining in popularity as of late - NPP in particular. Why? Because low test/high anabolic cycles are gaining in popularity and nandrolone is perfect in that environment. You can run it at 600-800mg per week and get the growth and joint benefits of SOME estrogen but it doesn't create the out of control estrogen atmosphere that Test does at higher doses. Running high test and high deca is problematic due to crazy estrogen/prolactin.

    Quote Originally Posted by figdaddy View Post
    Decas true medical benefit is mostly attributed joint healing.
    I have looked for controlled, scientific studies on nandrolone's collagen synthesis abilities and have not been able to find good ones - please show me where to find these if they exist - I'm interested. My understanding is that nandrolone's medical use is to fight muscle wasting and osteoporosis - so building muscle and increasing bone density.....
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    A friend of mine whose parents have been docs for 20 years have prescribed it to patients for that reason. Ill try to draw on the studies but i have not flipped through them in quite some time. The majority of my research on deca was done a year or two back now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by figdaddy View Post
    A friend of mine whose parents have been docs for 20 years have prescribed it to patients for that reason. Ill try to draw on the studies but i have not flipped through them in quite some time. The majority of my research on deca was done a year or two back now.
    Thanks - yes, please let me know if you find any.

    Regardless - nandrolone is FDA approved for treating osteoporosis and anemia. It is rarely used anymore for either - it is occasionally used to treat muscle wasting and red blood cell count in AIDS patients however. HRT clinics will prescribe it to treat joint pain but that is "off label" usage.

    Schering brought the drug through FDA approval and the healing of joints were not part of the process, nor their research.
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    sorry about not replying to anyones comments, been hectic at work and training hard when i can. well on my 3rd pin today, so 7 days into my course, had amazingly good results. i have put on 7 lbs, so now weight 11' 8' and have noticed a good increase in strength and feel really pumped. so really happy so far with the results so far. as this is my first course i would like to keep it a fairly simple course. will taking test e on its own (after the dbol finishes at week six) still yield an increase in size and strength?
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    500mg/wk is just a really high trt dose.. u may get some size and strength but at 25 yo u should already have decent test levels , albeit not as high as 500mg wk will give you but if you're gonna shut down your hpta i wouldnt do it for less than a gram a week of gear.. ie.. 500/400 test /deca or whatever else + an oral (dbol & anavar/winny or whatever else u can acquire)
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    Quote Originally Posted by abs322 View Post
    500mg/wk is just a really high trt dose.. u may get some size and strength but at 25 yo u should already have decent test levels , albeit not as high as 500mg wk will give you but if you're gonna shut down your hpta i wouldnt do it for less than a gram a week of gear.. ie.. 500/400 test /deca or whatever else + an oral (dbol & anavar/winny or whatever else u can acquire)
    You need to stop giving advice! Holy sh*t - 500 is not anything close to a TRT dose. Ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupes View Post
    Best advice you can get - do your research in multiple places not just this site and especially not this thread - here are a few ridiculous comments from this thread:

    1) Deca is weak - Deca has been a cornerstone of bodybuilding for 50 years, and it still works - plus it has been scientifically proven to be more anabolic than testosterone - stronger per mg
    2) Most of the gains people see on deca is while they are on test/tren - deca is rarely stacked with tren
    3 Deca sides can't be controlled- keep the test dose at trt level and deca will have very little/zero sides at 600mg per week in most people - it aromatizes at about 1/4 the rate of testosterone and when testosterone is kept in normal trt ranges prolactin is typically not an issue.
    4) Don't do Deca because it is highly suppressive - every AAS cycle of 8+ weeks is going to put your natural production to ZERO and deca doesn't give you negative levels so a 12 week test cycle is the same thing. (deca ester is longer though)
    5) Do and 8 week deca or EQ cycle - right when it kicks in you will be coming off the cycle - it's dumb
    I'm on the road and it's hard to respond but you've got to be kidding with these ridiculous claims?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post

    I'm on the road and it's hard to respond but you've got to be kidding with these ridiculous claims?
    Nope.
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    I feel as though this is warranted.

    Also Deca is more suppressive than test, end of conversation this is not even debatable. Being butt hurt about that fact is no reason to say anything else.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupes View Post
    Nope.
    Man, you've got to do your homework. Some things you said are reaosnable, but others are way off. When I get back and get on a computer I'll address this better.
  37. Stupes
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post

    Man, you've got to do your homework. Some things you said are reaosnable, but others are way off. When I get back and get on a computer I'll address this better.
    We disagree about nandrlone, no doubt. I think it is garbage when used with high dose test, and hence has received a bad reputation. But remove supra levels of test and its great.

    BTW - you seem like a really good guy so I apologize if I attacked you a bit with my post. Looking forward to your thoughts when you get off the road....
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    On the subject of suppression of natural test levels here is what a 200mg injection of npp or deca does. This is why we use hcg during deca/npp cycles. And yes it is more suppressive than test. Note how 200mg tanks test production.

    Name:  Deca02.gif
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    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
  39. Stupes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post
    On the subject of suppression of natural test levels here is what a 200mg injection of npp or deca does. This is why we use hcg during deca/npp cycles. And yes it is more suppressive than test. Note how 200mg tanks test production.

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=74 960"/>
    If you do 200mg of test, you will shut down. People use hcg during all sorts of cycles of substantial length, not just nandrolone cycles.

    200mg of deca per week is completely suppressive whereas 20mg of anavar per day is not completely suppressive. These are clinical doses and this is where the nandrolone suppression comes into play. It doesn't come into play with body building doses - all of your cycles will shut you down to zero - nandrolone or not. Hence the desire to run a test base.

    Tren shuts your ass down fast at very low doses - SD shuts me down to zero at 20mg per day. You can go on and on.

    Pulsing orals are a different story of course.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupes View Post
    If you do 200mg of test, you will shut down. People use hcg during all sorts of cycles of substantial length, not just nandrolone cycles.

    200mg of deca per week is completely suppressive whereas 20mg of anavar per day is not completely suppressive. These are clinical doses and this is where the nandrolone suppression comes into play. It doesn't come into play with body building doses - all of your cycles will shut you down to zero - nandrolone or not. Hence the desire to run a test base.

    Tren shuts your ass down fast at very low doses - SD shuts me down to zero at 20mg per day. You can go on and on.

    Pulsing orals are a different story of course.....
    Took two weeks to suppress natural test levels with 250mg of test c.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9394096
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
  

  
 

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