Trying to decide between two cycles.

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    Trying to decide between two cycles.


    Stuck between two cycles

    Going for a lean bulk going to start it around August.

    1st option
    1-8 npp 150mg eod
    1-8 test pp 150mg eod
    1-8 test prop 50mg eod
    2-8 winny 50mg ed
    8-10 test prop 100mg eod
    1-8 Prami .5mg x2
    Arimidex as needed

    2nd option
    1-12 test e 600mg
    1-4 test prop 100mg eod
    4-12 npp 150mg eod
    6-12 winny 50mg eod
    12-14 prop 100mg eod
    6-14 hcg 250mg x2
    4-12 Prami .5mg x2



    PCT 3 days after last test prop dosage
    nolva 40/40/20/20
    Clomid 100/100/50/50


    Opinions.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards

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    I am leaning towards the 1st one because it is short and sweet.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    I also like the looks of number one, but I'm really starting to enjoy pinning lol. Are you not running hcg due to the shorter cycle? I think one looks good, but I think i would throw hcg in and I prefer aromasin to adex, but everyone's different.
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    Trying to decide between two cycles.


    What's the point of mixing the pp and prop esters of the test in the first cycle? Are you just trying to get a lil kick start?

    Maybe I'm missing something, but you're running test the whole time, why would you just run Prop and bump up or down as needed?
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    I like short esters, so I'd lean towards one, but if it were me, I'd change it up. NPP is high risk, low gain in my opinion. So I wouldn't touch it. I don't see the need to run test prop and test pp together EOD. I'd prefer 200 prop EOD over Test PP, or better yet, 200 test Ace EOD.

    I don't see tren. Maybe 4 weeks on Anadrol/Dbol would help bulk fast, then by week 10 would be out of your system if you're prone to bloat on that stuff, I don't. Otherwise you've got the right mix for a lean, strong cycle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post
    Stuck between two cycles

    Going for a lean bulk going to start it around August.

    1st option
    1-8 npp 150mg eod
    1-8 test pp 150mg eod
    1-8 test prop 50mg eod
    2-8 winny 50mg ed
    8-10 test prop 100mg eod
    1-8 Prami .5mg x2
    Arimidex as needed

    2nd option
    1-12 test e 600mg
    1-4 test prop 100mg eod
    4-12 npp 150mg eod
    6-12 winny 50mg eod
    12-14 prop 100mg eod
    6-14 hcg 250mg x2
    4-12 Prami .5mg x2



    PCT 3 days after last test prop dosage
    nolva 40/40/20/20
    Clomid 100/100/50/50


    Opinions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    I like short esters, so I'd lean towards one, but if it were me, I'd change it up. NPP is high risk, low gain in my opinion. So I wouldn't touch it. I don't see the need to run test prop and test pp together EOD. I'd prefer 200 prop EOD over Test PP, or better yet, 200 test Ace EOD.

    I don't see tren. Maybe 4 weeks on Anadrol/Dbol would help bulk fast, then by week 10 would be out of your system if you're prone to bloat on that stuff, I don't. Otherwise you've got the right mix for a lean, strong cycle.
    Why do you see NPP as high risk, low gain? I've enjoyed my NPP run more than my Ace run in terms of less sides and better strength gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Why do you see NPP as high risk, low gain? I've enjoyed my NPP run more than my Ace run in terms of less sides and better strength gains.
    Nandrolone has been credited with being maybe up to 6 times as strong as testosterone, but recent studies show just the opposite.
    "Because of the difference between DHT and DHN given the same binding of testosterone and nandrolone in said tissues2 one could easily classify nandrolone as being 10 times less androgenic than testosterone." I posted a lengthy copy of the study, three times all together, so I'm not going to post it again. But another problem, a more serious problem is that, " a synthetic nandrolone metabolite, named estren (19-Nor-4-androstene-3α,17β-diol)11. Estren was found to only weakly bind the estrogen receptor, showing no real activity at that site and possessing a 300-fold lower binding affinity. Yet it mimicked the actions of estrogens in osteoblasts. Estren was however shown to be as active as DHT at activating certain androgen receptor related transcripts." ... “Finally, the unexpected estren-dependent activation(and by extension nandrolone-dependent activation) of ERE-driven gene expression in cells that express AR, which occurs with far greater potency relative to DHT, predicts the possibility of some troublesome feminizing effects in males, which still await examination."

    The whole study is quite long, but I find it is spot on. Nandrolone by any ester is bad news, even though some will swear by it.

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    Re: Trying to decide between two cycles.


    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t#.URKQf0wo7Js


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    Big Cat was missing the x variable in his theories. Guys in the 70's and 80's ran deca with great success because they didn't use test then - they thought it was dirty, which of course it is at supra levels - the estrogen sides are dirty. Deca started getting a bad rep when test started being used in supra levels along with it.

    Nandrolone has estro properties, as can be seen in the studies - but estro is good at reasonable levels so along with nandro's 125-150 anabolic ratio it is a great bulker on it's own.

    Gerbil - I would try running #1 but keep test at trt levels, 150mg per week and up the NPP to 750 per week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Nandrolone has been credited with being maybe up to 6 times as strong as testosterone, but recent studies show just the opposite.
    6 times as strong? Where did you get that? Vida has nandrolone at 125-150 area - so not even twice as strong as test......
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    So the general opinion is no npp from what I see here.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupes View Post
    Big Cat was missing the x variable in his theories. Guys in the 70's and 80's ran deca with great success because they didn't use test then - they thought it was dirty, which of course it is at supra levels - the estrogen sides are dirty. Deca started getting a bad rep when test started being used in supra levels along with it.

    Nandrolone has estro properties, as can be seen in the studies - but estro is good at reasonable levels so along with nandro's 125-150 anabolic ratio it is a great bulker on it's own.

    Gerbil - I would try running #1 but keep test at trt levels, 150mg per week and up the NPP to 750 per week.


    I woiuld disagree with you. There is/was no missing variable. Fact is Nandrolone produces estrin which is not dependent upon a catalyst like test, as I think you are saying. His study was quite complete, in fact, the most indepth and complete study to-date. Also, there is no evidence that guys ever ran deca with "great success." They used dbol a lot but to say that as long as you run deca alone all will be well makes no sense. I have to run to work but I'll come back to this later... Oh, the claims of deca being 5-6 times stronger are all over, on the boards, in unsupported testominies and so on. Not my numbers,; but a quick search will pull that up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer
    I like short esters, so I'd lean towards one, but if it were me, I'd change it up. NPP is high risk, low gain in my opinion. So I wouldn't touch it. I don't see the need to run test prop and test pp together EOD. I'd prefer 200 prop EOD over Test PP, or better yet, 200 test Ace EOD.

    I don't see tren. Maybe 4 weeks on Anadrol/Dbol would help bulk fast, then by week 10 would be out of your system if you're prone to bloat on that stuff, I don't. Otherwise you've got the right mix for a lean, strong cycle.
    NPP is low gain? say that to my newly acquired 15 lbs of mass
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    I woiuld disagree with you. There is/was no missing variable. Fact is Nandrolone produces estrin which is not dependent upon a catalyst like test, as I think you are saying. His study was quite complete, in fact, the most indepth and complete study to-date.
    Peter "Big Cat" Van Mol seems like a nice guy - but all he did was read research papers and then post about steroids as an undergrad in some two horse Belgium college. He didn't conduct any studies, nor was he involved in any of the studies. That article he wrote was a theory pieced together by taking a slew of studies and making a number of assumptions in order to back up his theory on why nandrolone was bad. I don't even think he ever even used nandrolone.

    Nandrolone produces estrin - so does Testosterone - but nandrolone does it at a lower rate. Stacking high dose test and nandrolone is problematic because they both produce estrin and e2/prolactin can easily get out of control. But I'm not saying test is a catalyst to nandrolone.

    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Also, there is no evidence that guys ever ran deca with "great success." They used dbol a lot but to say that as long as you run deca alone all will be well makes no sense.
    "Evidence"? Nandrolone is probably the most studied steroid outside of testosterone - it's muscle building and bone density effects are very well documented in many many controlled scientific studies. And I said it is best to run nandrolone with a TRT level of test, 100-200mg

    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    I have to run to work but I'll come back to this later... Oh, the claims of deca being 5-6 times stronger are all over, on the boards, in unsupported testominies and so on. Not my numbers,; but a quick search will pull that up.
    Thankfully - I am not on those boards and have never seen those numbers being thrown around. I would agree with you that those numbers are idiotic and unsubstantiated......
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    I guess I will go with plan A and might up npp dosage by 50mg eod and lower test a bit.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    lean bulk... i stopped reading after test prop and test pp + npp.

    lean bulk: low test, high tren, + drying compound win/var/mast/eq
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLHF View Post
    lean bulk... i stopped reading after test prop and test pp + npp.

    lean bulk: low test, high tren, + drying compound win/var/mast/eq
    Not sure if I am quite ready for tren but have been curious about it.

    Maybe
    1-9 test p 50mg eod
    1-8 tren a 100mg eod
    3-9 winny 50mg ed
    1-8 prami .5mgx2
    1-9 Aromasin 6.25mg ed
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post
    Not sure if I am quite ready for tren but have been curious about it.

    Maybe
    1-9 test p 50mg eod
    1-8 tren a 100mg eod
    3-9 winny 50mg ed
    1-8 prami .5mgx2
    1-9 Aromasin 6.25mg ed
    this MUCH much better.

    keep test at 50-75mg eod, its only testosterone lol- we used it for sexual functions only. i would advise u have atleast 2 full weeks of test only post last tren administration. extend the cycle by 4weeks with just test and ur recovery would be easier than just trying to do pct a week after tren.

    start the tren at 75mg eod, stay there for 10days, bump to 100eod, stay there for 2-3-4weeks, than bump up to 150mg eod, you should have no problems at this dose if u gradually bump up to it. ull prob wanna do more than 150eod as the weeks pile up

    winny is good dose, possibly extend it more, like week 1-9 50mg ed, ramp it up and down like 30/40/50/50.../40/30/ 20(week 10) dont just drop it. this is IMO if ur not prepping for a show, u should slowly lean off it. tren- drop that **** straight up

    aromasin- that might be overkill. u shouldnt have estrogen problems, ull be doing under 350mg of test/week. u also have the winny and tren which both will keep u very dry/lean. dont use it but have it on hand.

    you probably wouldnt need the prami either, but keep on hand when u increase tren dose especially.
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    Agreed - no need for the aromasin. 50mg test EOD is perfect because it's at TRT level and won't require an anti-e. Winny and Tren won't aromatize so it estro shouldn't be an issue. Less support drugs the better....
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLHF View Post
    this MUCH much better.

    keep test at 50-75mg eod, its only testosterone lol- we used it for sexual functions only. i would advise u have atleast 2 full weeks of test only post last tren administration. extend the cycle by 4weeks with just test and ur recovery would be easier than just trying to do pct a week after tren.

    start the tren at 75mg eod, stay there for 10days, bump to 100eod, stay there for 2-3-4weeks, than bump up to 150mg eod, you should have no problems at this dose if u gradually bump up to it. ull prob wanna do more than 150eod as the weeks pile up

    winny is good dose, possibly extend it more, like week 1-9 50mg ed, ramp it up and down like 30/40/50/50.../40/30/ 20(week 10) dont just drop it. this is IMO if ur not prepping for a show, u should slowly lean off it. tren- drop that **** straight up

    aromasin- that might be overkill. u shouldnt have estrogen problems, ull be doing under 350mg of test/week. u also have the winny and tren which both will keep u very dry/lean. dont use it but have it on hand.

    you probably wouldnt need the prami either, but keep on hand when u increase tren dose especially.
    So what I am getting from this is.
    1-12 Test p 50mg eod
    Tren 75 eod/100 eod/100 eod/100 eod/100 eod/150 eod/150 eod/150 eod
    Winny 30/40/50/50/50/50/40/30/20
    Prami or caber on hand
    Exemestane on hand.

    Then pct
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    yea.

    TREN hard, eat CLEN, always TEST youself!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLHF View Post

    this MUCH much better.

    keep test at 50-75mg eod, its only testosterone lol- we used it for sexual functions only. i would advise u have atleast 2 full weeks of test only post last tren administration. extend the cycle by 4weeks with just test and ur recovery would be easier than just trying to do pct a week after tren.

    start the tren at 75mg eod, stay there for 10days, bump to 100eod, stay there for 2-3-4weeks, than bump up to 150mg eod, you should have no problems at this dose if u gradually bump up to it. ull prob wanna do more than 150eod as the weeks pile up

    winny is good dose, possibly extend it more, like week 1-9 50mg ed, ramp it up and down like 30/40/50/50.../40/30/ 20(week 10) dont just drop it. this is IMO if ur not prepping for a show, u should slowly lean off it. tren- drop that **** straight up

    aromasin- that might be overkill. u shouldnt have estrogen problems, ull be doing under 350mg of test/week. u also have the winny and tren which both will keep u very dry/lean. dont use it but have it on hand.

    you probably wouldnt need the prami either, but keep on hand when u increase tren dose especially.
    ^^^^ nice fn layout ^^^this all day IMO

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