- 08-25-2012, 07:09 PM
- 5'10" 245 lbs.
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
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Tons of people always talk about how twice a week or eod or mwf doses of sustanon is the best way to use it. In my reading during the normal weekend away from home and all of my friends boredom i discovered an arcticle on sust that i thought i may share with everyone. I read it. It seems like a pretty solid idea. i'm going to post the article for the idea of discussion.
"Sustanon And Itís Use
Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every ďnoobĒ has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what youíre doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Letís take a look at Sustanon.
Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases itís payload (testosterone) over a length of time.
So letís look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or ďsynergisticĒ. Thatís almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi youíll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the moleculeís weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compoundís solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?
propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)
In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving onÖ
I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didnít take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. Thatís about enough to suppress the axis but thatís it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the ďsust fluĒ? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on meÖ Iím not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Donít get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldnít? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldnít. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and ďone of them estersĒ will eventually work. Personally, I donít like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, donít we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SOÖ how well did it work? Iíd have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.
Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didnít want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.
Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you donít mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I havenít seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca)."-authors real name unknownI'm just a dude chasing a dream
- 08-26-2012, 11:14 AM
- 5'10" 0 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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BTW, sust is actually
propionate 30mg (2 days) - 24mg actual test
phenylpropionate 60mg (4 days) - 40mg actual test
isocaproate 60mg (9 days) - 43mg actual test
decanoate 100mg (15 days) - 63mg actual test
Also, the flaw in this article is that a 1/2-life doesn't mean you don't get the test until a certain time, it just means that it takes that long for the ester to be broken down. The breakdown is also not linear. So by using 1000mg of sust all at once in the first week, you'll get roughly 400mg of actual test total in the first 8 days.
By comparison, Test-E, 500mg contains 350mg of actual test, with a 1/2 life of 14 days, giving you about 200mg test total in one week (ester breakdown is not linear).
In sort, without going into all the details and theories, all long esters take time to kick in. That's why people need a kicker before test serum levels become elevated from the buildup of the esters in your system. An alternative is to front-load, but that's not as stable due to too many variables. The author is comparing what is essentially a long ester compound (Sust), with test-prop.
Also, everyone's system breaks down each ester slightly differently, so maybe one will work better for you than others.
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