Rpn havoc help

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    Rpn havoc help


    Howdy guys.

    I'm about to commence my first PH cycle with RPN havoc, of which I have two bottles (which I'll probably run two to tree cycles with).

    Just looking for some professional input to make sure I've got all of this right.

    First of all, I'm 23 years old, 6'2", 210 pounds at around 15%bf (probably less, abs are out)

    I've been training seriously for about a year (had previously trained, but just for fun) but am looking for some strength gains, as although lately I'm looking more shredded, and have gained a few kilos, my strength seems to have decreased...

    A typical days food would be
    Meal 1 - 6 weetabix, 1 banana, low fat milk
    Meal 2 - 100g tuna, 100g cottage cheese (low fat)
    Meal 3 - post workout shake (muscle milk choc)
    Meal 4 - same as meal 2
    Meal 5 - Chicken schnitzel, mixed veg (200g)
    Meal 6 - gold standard casein shake (at bed).

    I'm working out 1.5 times a day, with the following breakdown...

    Monday lunch time - chest
    Monday pm - tris
    Tuesday lunch time - biceps
    Wednesday lunch time - back
    Wednesday pm - abs
    Thursday lunch - Arms
    Friday lunch - chest
    Saturday - shoulders/legs
    Sunday whatever needs work.

    I'll be preloading for two weeks:
    hawthorn berry

    Already taking:
    Bcaa
    Creatine at 5g/day

    Cycling
    Week 1:
    coq10
    Hawthorn berry
    Fish oil
    10mg havoc

    Week 2:
    Supports
    20mg havoc

    Week 3-4:
    Supports
    30mg havoc

    Week 5-6:
    Supports
    NOLVADEX 20mg

    Week 7-8:
    Supports
    NOLVADEX 10mg

    ...

    Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome!

    Thanks :-)

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    Ps havoc is an epistane clone...
    I'll be logging progress also
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    Quote Originally Posted by masodonis
    Ps havoc is an epistane clone...
    I'll be logging progress also
    Also, forgot to include I also will be taking liver support and a double dose of men's multi which contains b vitamins of course!
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    time to go back to the drawing board and read more. 10mg? that is completely pointless 20mg that is completely pointless... 2-3 cycles from 2 bottles? not going to happen.. only 4 weeks? waste of time...

    you have a lot of reading to do... all the info is already in hundreds of other posts so I am not going to rehash it all..

    Good luck!
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger
    time to go back to the drawing board and read more. 10mg? that is completely pointless 20mg that is completely pointless... 2-3 cycles from 2 bottles? not going to happen.. only 4 weeks? waste of time...

    you have a lot of reading to do... all the info is already in hundreds of other posts so I am not going to rehash it all..

    Good luck!
    Thanks for your input strangbanger. It is much appreciated. I know this dosing is lower than just about every other forum I've read, but i wanted to assess my tolerance first. Would you suggest 20,30,30,40 (could go 40,40 for 5-6 weeks depending on sides)? Realising I'm bigger than the average 1st time havoc user I could probably up the dose, but wanted to err on the side of caution.

    Again, I appreciate your input.
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    Just a suggestion, but even if you were carb-sensitive, I can't imagine how you could ever get stronger on wheatabix and some mixed veggies for an entire day's worth of carbs. I would lose a pound of muscle a week if I dropped my carbs that low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby
    Just a suggestion, but even if you were carb-sensitive, I can't imagine how you could ever get stronger on wheatabix and some mixed veggies for an entire day's worth of carbs. I would lose a pound of muscle a week if I dropped my carbs that low.
    Haha

    Thanks for that! There are days that I eat a kilo of pasta... This is by far, the worst case scenario!
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    Quote Originally Posted by masodonis View Post
    Howdy guys.

    I'm about to commence my first PH cycle with RPN havoc, of which I have two bottles (which I'll probably run two to tree cycles with).

    Just looking for some professional input to make sure I've got all of this right.

    First of all, I'm 23 years old, 6'2", 210 pounds at around 15%bf (probably less, abs are out)

    I've been training seriously for about a year (had previously trained, but just for fun) but am looking for some strength gains, as although lately I'm looking more shredded, and have gained a few kilos, my strength seems to have decreased...

    A typical days food would be
    Meal 1 - 6 weetabix, 1 banana, low fat milk
    Meal 2 - 100g tuna, 100g cottage cheese (low fat)
    Meal 3 - post workout shake (muscle milk choc)
    Meal 4 - same as meal 2
    Meal 5 - Chicken schnitzel, mixed veg (200g)
    Meal 6 - gold standard casein shake (at bed).

    I'm working out 1.5 times a day, with the following breakdown...

    Monday lunch time - chest
    Monday pm - tris
    Tuesday lunch time - biceps
    Wednesday lunch time - back
    Wednesday pm - abs
    Thursday lunch - Arms
    Friday lunch - chest
    Saturday - shoulders/legs
    Sunday whatever needs work.

    I'll be preloading for two weeks:
    hawthorn berry

    Already taking:
    Bcaa
    Creatine at 5g/day

    Cycling
    Week 1:
    coq10
    Hawthorn berry
    Fish oil
    10mg havoc

    Week 2:
    Supports
    20mg havoc

    Week 3-4:
    Supports
    30mg havoc

    Week 5-6:
    Supports
    NOLVADEX 20mg

    Week 7-8:
    Supports
    NOLVADEX 10mg

    ...

    Your thoughts and suggestions are welcome!

    Thanks :-)
    10mg seems low for body weight. Most people will want to see your daily macros for food, not so much the meal break down. Protein, carbs, fats, totals for the day. Generally you'll want to see your protein intake at 1~2 grams per pound of body weight per day. Pct nolva dosing looks good, but most people will also use a natty test booster like Daa( d aspartic acid), and an AI ( aromataze inhibitor) like Erase or Erase pro. The AI is to help prevent estrogen rebound. These are both available at nutraplanet and reasonable priced.
    Dosing would look something like this.
    Daa
    3/3/3/3 grams per day weeks 1~4 of pct
    Erase Original
    0/0/3/2/1/1 pills per day weeks 3~6

    Didn't see a liver support supp in there, should take one from start to the end of pct. I like Cels cycle assist. Sorry if this is jumbled and not well written but I'm at work on my phone. All that being said I'm no expert and you need to make choices for your self. Never blindly believe, always verify. Good luck bud.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
    Lift Hard, Love Long, and Live Happy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidniteGunner

    10mg seems low for body weight. Most people will want to see your daily macros for food, not so much the meal break down. Protein, carbs, fats, totals for the day. Generally you'll want to see your protein intake at 1~2 grams per pound of body weight per day. Pct nolva dosing looks good, but most people will also use a natty test booster like Daa( d aspartic acid), and an AI ( aromataze inhibitor) like Erase or Erase pro. The AI is to help prevent estrogen rebound. These are both available at nutraplanet and reasonable priced.
    Dosing would look something like this.
    Daa
    3/3/3/3 grams per day weeks 1~4 of pct
    Erase Original
    0/0/3/2/1/1 pills per day weeks 3~6

    Didn't see a liver support supp in there, should take one from start to the end of pct. I like Cels cycle assist. Sorry if this is jumbled and not well written but I'm at work on my phone. All that being said I'm no expert and you need to make choices for your self. Never blindly believe, always verify. Good luck bud.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
    Thanks mate! I do have a liver support (milk thistle etc) and a multi on hand and will run from start of cycle to end of pct.

    From the feedback I've received I'll post macros, and up my dose to something like 20 30 30 40 (and maybe 40 40)!
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    Lightbulb


    Some people get dry joints from epi, you may want a joint support supp on hand.
    Lift Hard, Love Long, and Live Happy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MidniteGunner
    Some people get dry joints from epi, you may want a joint support supp on hand.
    I take fish oil due to arthritic knees.. Was thinking of switching to red krill oil on cycle? Your thoughts?
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    I take a fish, flax, borgess oil combo pill and a glucosamine and condrotin joint supp called osteo biflex. Works well for me. Have some knee problems from sports and some wrist issues from work. Three above combo keeps everything working smoothly for me. As far as an opinion don't really know enough to have one this just what the doc recommended and it worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidniteGunner
    I take a fish, flax, borgess oil combo pill and a glucosamine and condrotin joint supp called osteo biflex. Works well for me. Have some knee problems from sports and some wrist issues from work. Three above combo keeps everything working smoothly for me. As far as an opinion don't really know enough to have one this just what the doc recommended and it worked.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
    Thanks again! I'll be posting a new thread in about a week once I've got the cycle ready to go... It'll be a log and will include details of daily macros, excersizes and results. I'll post the link here!
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    I'm in. good luck

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    dose 20 for a couple of days at most and if you are fine go right to 30... also run at least 5 if not 6 weeks. Epi kicks in week 3 so running 4 weeks is a waste.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    ^ this ^
    From my experience, it's a gentler methyl per liver enzyme values taken at 3 1/2 weeks @ 40 mg a day.
    I would never hesitate to run epi 6 weeks as long as good support supps are in place.
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    Thanks guys! I'll get bloods taken at three and a half weeks and they'll be back by four. So long as my liver isn't looking like a corner brothel, I'll go six. Another Btest at 5.5 will determine if I continue to 8.

    Sub into this thread, I'll post a link to my log shortly!

    Will include:

    Macros
    Bloods
    Weight
    Measurements
    Routine

    Anything else you can think ok?

    Cheers!
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    No - dont go 8... 6 max.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html
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    ^ agreed ^
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    You're not going to grow much with that tiny diet
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    word G. your diet need more power. amp upthe shakes with oat meal. and have 3 a day. a fruit wont hurt more veg, id get more meat in there. but who the f_ck em i.
    Subbed !! post your routine. im intrested in your work out.

    how much BF are u trying to drop?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashinova87
    You're not going to grow much with that tiny diet
    I'm usually 3000+ cals a day. The included diet was a worst case scenario. If I plan properly (which I will on cycle) I'll be 4000 odd. New meal 1 consists of 65 carbs 55 protein 47 fats at just over 900 cals and I could easily eat that twice daily.. Food in shouldn't be an issue. Starting the course on the 28th so I'll get the new link up before then!
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    since when is epi considered old school?
    Getting back into the swing of things
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyMan
    since when is epi considered old school?
    Well reyman, it was first created in the 1960s. Sounds pretty old school to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masodonis View Post
    Well reyman, it was first created in the 1960s. Sounds pretty old school to me.
    lol, nice
    T2
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger View Post
    dose 20 for a couple of days at most and if you are fine go right to 30... also run at least 5 if not 6 weeks. Epi kicks in week 3 so running 4 weeks is a waste.
    this here.
    and fix your diet.
    and take a real serm, not nolvadex.

    your on the right track other wise. good luck
    I am artificially aroused
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    how was epi on your guys hairline??
    T2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Templar

    this here.
    and fix your diet.
    and take a real serm, not nolvadex.

    your on the right track other wise. good luck
    Nolvadex is a real SERM... I think you think I mean novedex xt fr gaspari?

    But thanks for the encouragement otherwise :-)
    Diet shown here is a bare minimum as stated above... I eat 3000+ daily and don't particularly want to 'bulk' as such, just lean gains and strength.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schroedes
    how was epi on your guys hairline??
    Haven't taken it yet but my research indicates that I shouldn't be an issue unless you're genetically predisposed to hair loss, which I'm not. It's also very mildly androgenic, which means less sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masodonis View Post
    Haven't taken it yet but my research indicates that I shouldn't be an issue unless you're genetically predisposed to hair loss, which I'm not. It's also very mildly androgenic, which means less sides.
    ya im runnin it in june and ive heard both sides, it can be good or bad, and my ****in hair isnt gettin any thicker, lol
    T2
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    Quote Originally Posted by schroedes View Post
    ya im runnin it in june and ive heard both sides, it can be good or bad, and my ****in hair isnt gettin any thicker, lol
    it's normal to experience shedding. My hair came back fine along with most of my friends. if you are prone to MBP then it probably wont grow back. I'd go with SD over epi any day, its not nearly as harsh as people make it out to be.. To prove a point i ran it 4 weeks @ 20mg with no cycle support and was fine. My levels were elevated but not anywhere near hospitalization.
    Getting back into the swing of things
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReyMan View Post
    it's normal to experience shedding. My hair came back fine along with most of my friends. if you are prone to MBP then it probably wont grow back. I'd go with SD over epi any day, its not nearly as harsh as people make it out to be.. To prove a point i ran it 4 weeks @ 20mg with no cycle support and was fine. My levels were elevated but not anywhere near hospitalization.
    no s h i t? dont necessarily know if im prone, just have thin hair, experienced shedding with a 1-andro deca cycle, not heavy but 5-10 hairs in hands during washing, guess ill have to try for myself and find out
    T2
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    I would definitely take more time to plan this out a bit more. Only 10 to 20mg of epi isn't much, especially since it looks like you're eating quite sparingly (especially at 6'2" 210lbs, I mean come on). Also, although a lot of people are up on the concept of anabolics and PHs giving great recovery times, I think you need vastly more rest. I would suggest working out 3-4 days a week, just once during the day (why are you having two sessions a day), and just really making those workouts count...high weight and intensity. Then give your body some time to rest...you don't have a single rest day on your calendar right now, and that just seems bad to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenEarth
    I would definitely take more time to plan this out a bit more. Only 10 to 20mg of epi isn't much, especially since it looks like you're eating quite sparingly (especially at 6'2" 210lbs, I mean come on). Also, although a lot of people are up on the concept of anabolics and PHs giving great recovery times, I think you need vastly more rest. I would suggest working out 3-4 days a week, just once during the day (why are you having two sessions a day), and just really making those workouts count...high weight and intensity. Then give your body some time to rest...you don't have a single rest day on your calendar right now, and that just seems bad to me.
    Thanks for your critique, it's appreciated.

    I've been working out this many times a week since December last, and have seen more gains in that time than previously when I trained five times a week with rest days. I've found that spreading my movements and groups out throughout the week provides me with adequate rest (for the most part) although when I have DOMS I usually take a day off...

    As far as my diet goes, the included is an example of my bare minimum day. I eat more than this usually; however, this is an example of say one day a week when I don't have the time to prepare my meals... I'll post an accurate measure of my macros with my log, which could start as early as tomorrow, as I think my Nolvadex arrived today!

    :-D
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    Oh boy, guys FYI I started my cycle a few days ago. Will be linking the log and first post over the weekend-have recorded my workouts and macros! Starting weight 97kg (213.4lbs)
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    Quote Originally Posted by masodonis
    Oh boy, guys FYI I started my cycle a few days ago. Will be linking the log and first post over the weekend-have recorded my workouts and macros! Starting weight 97kg (213.4lbs)
    Nice...good luck bro!
    GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/231867-man-sports-gameday.html#post4047619
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    Quote Originally Posted by murk01
    Nice...good luck bro!
    Thanks bro -spoiler alert, already a kilo up... Wtf? Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by cashinova87 View Post
    You're not going to grow much with that tiny diet
    i agree, your diet is ridiculous. you need 2 bottles of rpn havoc. i started mine im doing 30/30/30/40/50. same pct same liver support. im boosting mine off with triazole and ending it with triazole also. you need to eat way more though. just do lots of cardio and ab workouts, you wont get "fat". i mightve missed it but what are you repping? and have you done a cycle before?
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    Nolvadex, 20/20/20/20 is perfect. Nolva is for light , dry cycles like havoc or epi. and yea its a SERM.. hah. one of the best out there. and 10 mg of havoc or even 20, wont do ****. its a waste of pills and $$ ...
    Quote Originally Posted by masodonis View Post
    Nolvadex is a real SERM... I think you think I mean novedex xt fr gaspari?

    But thanks for the encouragement otherwise :-)
    Diet shown here is a bare minimum as stated above... I eat 3000+ daily and don't particularly want to 'bulk' as such, just lean gains and strength.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andro454

    i agree, your diet is ridiculous. you need 2 bottles of rpn havoc. i started mine im doing 30/30/30/40/50. same pct same liver support. im boosting mine off with triazole and ending it with triazole also. you need to eat way more though. just do lots of cardio and ab workouts, you wont get "fat". i mightve missed it but what are you repping? and have you done a cycle before?
    Haha a bit late for recommendations-cycle is almost over. Probably the most important thing I've learned is to post my actual diet, not my worst case scenario diet!

    Been at around 350g protein 200-250 carbs and 50g fat a day.

    260odd bench
    300squat
    425dead

    It's my first cycle.

    Strength has increased, but not really in the way of maxes, I just seem to have increased endurance. Haven't really pushed myself for maxs, will do that in the last week of the cycle.

    Running 6 weeks at 30,30,30,40,40,50

    Nolvadex will be dosed at 20,20,10,10
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