Newbie, first cycle recommendations

[HollywoodHam]

im 28 years old and have been lifting for over 2 years. i want to do a cycle for the first time. i hear first timers shouldnt stack, and then i hear you should. anyhow if anyone has any recommendations for a first cycle, that would be somewhat easy, i would appreciate any input. I dont mind doing injections, and would be preferable to orals. im 5'10'' 193lbs. thanks in advance for any responses.

[Cheif]

im 28 years old and have been lifting for over 2 years. i want to do a cycle for the first time. i hear first timers shouldnt stack, and then i hear you should. anyhow if anyone has any recommendations for a first cycle, that would be somewhat easy, i would appreciate any input. I dont mind doing injections, and would be preferable to orals. im 5'10'' 193lbs. thanks in advance for any responses.

500mg of Test E. a week is a pretty popular "beginner" cycle.

Id recommend something like that, unless you don't know ****.

Then id do some research, then consider.

Pop quiz:
Do you know what PCT is?

[pyrobatt]

im 28 years old and have been lifting for over 2 years. i want to do a cycle for the first time. i hear first timers shouldnt stack, and then i hear you should. anyhow if anyone has any recommendations for a first cycle, that would be somewhat easy, i would appreciate any input. I dont mind doing injections, and would be preferable to orals. im 5'10'' 193lbs. thanks in advance for any responses.

Another thing you should post is your bodyfat%.If your over 15% your cheating yourself by doing a cycle because it will come with fat gain in pct.Which means end of cycle you mite be 16-17% which means your body won't handle carbs aswell after you stop.Insulin resistance and all.
PCT is something you should plan before you choose what orals or injects you want.in jec ts and orals have different pct dosing protocols .
Train for one more year and come back.Your endocrine system has to get used to packing on muscle /gaining good weight before you jump on the train or you will end up losing gains in a week or so.

Hope I helped!

[HollywoodHam]

cheif, i do know what pct is, and i appreciate the advice
pyrobatt, thanks for the info, i was not aware of that, and am going to look more into the pct before i continue my research about cycles. also so anything less than 15% is ok?

[pyrobatt]

cheif, i do know what pct is, and i appreciate the advice
pyrobatt, thanks for the info, i was not aware of that, and am going to look more into the pct before i continue my research about cycles. also so anything less than 15% is ok?

I find the perfect range for building muscle is 9-15% bodyfat. anything lower and you'll be working too hard to maintain to worry about bulking.Anything higher and you will have some extra estrogen floating around and you won't handle carbs that well.

Atleast its my personal outlook.

[The Storm16]

I find the perfect range for building muscle is 9-15% bodyfat. anything lower and you'll be working too hard to maintain to worry about bulking.Anything higher and you will have some extra estrogen floating around and you won't handle carbs that well.

Atleast its my personal outlook.

I've definitely heard this before. Did you experience this or was there a study or something about it?

[pyrobatt]

I've definitely heard this before. Did you experience this or was there a study or something about it?

experience mostly.Higher bodyfat dose mean more estrogen is floating around and being "chubby" is linked to decreased insulin sensitivity.
Good read : http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...-fat-loss.html
and effects on bodyfat and estrogen translates into obesity/being overweight is correlated with high estrogen levels and thus, low testosterone levels. Fat cells contain aromatase which produce estrogen. More fat means more estrogen. This typically doesn’t typically become an issue until one has over 19% or 20% body fat.

also quoted from t nation

If you're obese, low carb diets are the best way to go to lose fat – you're so insulin resistant that any carbohydrates you eat will most likely be stored in adipose tissue. Sorry. Research shows that the best approach for this demographic to improve insulin sensitivity is to lose body fat through low-carb eating. Once you're lean, you'll have more dietary options.

However, research has also shown that prolonged low-carb eating may reduce insulin sensitivity. Can you say "post-dieting or post-contest weight rebound"? This may be due to enzymatic changes in the body (for example, pyruvate dehydrogenase activation – a key enzyme in carbohydrate metabolism – is reduced after prolonged periods of low carbohydrate intake). Use it or lose it, I guess?

I don't like to get caught up in the confines of any one, universal dietary "system." I prefer instead to draw from different approaches based on the individual's unique situation.

For carbohydrate intake, I look at it as a seesaw approach. On one side, you have a person's relative insulin resistance, on the other side, their suggested carbohydrate intake.

If someone's insulin resistance level is high, then his/her carbohydrate intake should be low. If someone's insulin resistance level is low (and insulin sensitivity is high), then his/her carbohydrate intake should be high. If it's in the middle, carbohydrates should be moderate and targeted.

Practical application strategy – Since insulin resistance is closely correlated with body fat, we'll put it in terms of ballpark body fat percentages:

>25% body fat: Low-carb diets would be the best. Think Paleo, Caveman, LaLanne's "if man made it don't eat it", or Poliquin's "run, fly, swim, green and grows in the ground" approach.

12-25% body fat: Stick with the "earn your carbs" theme. If you're consistently strength training like a madman, you can reintroduce carbs back into your diet. Start slowly, perhaps 0.75-1.0g/lb of lean body mass. Targeted timing matters – spread intake over periods where insulin sensitivity is at its highest (peri-workout and breakfast).

<10% body fat: In addition to peri-workout nutrition and breakfast, I think carbs should be a consistent part of the diet for this demographic. Something like a traditional bodybuilding high protein, moderate-to-high carb, lower fat, with fat as a by-product of protein sources approach. I would go with 1-2 grams protein per pound of lean body mass spread relatively evenly over the course of the day.

[DNAMP]

another typical first cycle test E 500 mg/week for 10 weeks with dbol @ 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks, youll have bigger gains

[HollywoodHam]

another typical first cycle test E 500 mg/week for 10 weeks with dbol @ 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks, youll have bigger gains

if i went with that cycle, and either added dbol or did not, would i need to ad something to keep my estrogen levels from going out of control? what would i ad, how much and how often? also how would my pct be for a 10 week cycle like this?

[HollywoodHam]

another typical first cycle test E 500 mg/week for 10 weeks with dbol @ 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks, youll have bigger gains

If i did that with the dbol for the first 4 weeks, and test e 500mg for 10 weeks would i need to take anything with the cycle to keep my estrogen levels from going out of control? also on a cycle like this what when would i start pct and what would i take for it? I'm familiar with the concept that you need to get your testosterone back producing naturally quick enough so that you dont lose gains, but am fairly in the dark about what you can take for it. and how to.

[HollywoodHam]

another typical first cycle test E 500 mg/week for 10 weeks with dbol @ 30mg a day for the first 4 weeks, youll have bigger gains

i heard it if you mix dbol into a cycle its good to pyramid it, what do you think? also, if i took the test e 500 mg for ten weeks, what would i do as pct?

[Lukef2000]

You will need a serm like clomid or nolvadex for pct. Either one will do but both would be better. During cycle have an AI like armidex or aromasin in case you get any estrogen sides. You don't really need one until you start to get sides because having too little estrogen will hinder your gains. Hope that helps.

[DangerDave]

If i did that with the dbol for the first 4 weeks, and test e 500mg for 10 weeks would i need to take anything with the cycle to keep my estrogen levels from going out of control? also on a cycle like this what when would i start pct and what would i take for it? I'm familiar with the concept that you need to get your testosterone back producing naturally quick enough so that you dont lose gains, but am fairly in the dark about what you can take for it. and how to.

Ok I will lay out a simple cycle. You then ask a question on the compounds..

Week 1-12 Test E 250mg 2x a week (500mg total)

Week1-4 dbol 30mg ed

Week2-12 Adex .5mg ed for 1 week then .5mg EOD wk3-12

Week 13-18 Exemestane 20-25mg EOD (you can do less time its more as needed to keep estrogen down and boost LH/Test levels.

Week 14-18 Clomid @ 50mg ED or 100/50/50/50. Nolva can be used instead but Clomid and nolva can't be used with adex because it fights your receptors.

Of course you can throw in basic supps like creatine, daily vitamins and DAA for pct.

Hope that helps man. Ask any questions. This is a basic cycle with ancillaries and pct to cover all angles in my opinion.

[TestEinstein]

Ok I will lay out a simple cycle. You then ask a question on the compounds..

Week 1-12 Test E 250mg 2x a week (500mg total)

Week1-4 dbol 30mg ed

Week2-12 Adex .5mg ed for 1 week then .5mg EOD wk3-12

Week 13-18 Exemestane 20-25mg EOD (you can do less time its more as needed to keep estrogen down and boost LH/Test levels.

Week 14-18 Clomid @ 50mg ED or 100/50/50/50. Nolva can be used instead but Clomid and nolva can't be used with adex because it fights your receptors.

Of course you can throw in basic supps like creatine, daily vitamins and DAA for pct.

Hope that helps man. Ask any questions. This is a basic cycle with ancillaries and pct to cover all angles in my opinion.

Pretty good, but I would advise the OP that estrogen is good for you right up until it causes problems for you... I have known several people who have done dbol/test with just on-hand nolva and been fine (I did deca/dbol years ago without issue). I would use the least possible aromatase inhibitor, if any, until estrogen-related side effects became problematic. You'll be happier with the estrogen floating around, and so will your cholesterol levels. Just keep the SERM close for immediate anti-gyno etc, and if a flare up occurs initiate an AI use for the remainder of the cycle.

[DangerDave]

Yes but an AI like adex or estane are used to not eliminate estrogen but keep it low. Why would I wait for sides then its going to take 1 week to get stable blood plasma levels of my AI to stop/counter it?

I would rather prevent sides than let them happen first. I would rather be proactive instead of reactive.

I feel fine if I keep my estrogen lower but still existant. Plus using estane or adex is proven to boost you LH/TEST levels as well as IGF-1 that is actuallly lowered by clomid. Using adex on cycle can actually help you to not shutdown as hard. I'm talking like .25 - .5mg eod after stable blood levels. That is a very minor dose but will keep estrogen in check yet still existant for its benefits. And correct me if I'm wrong but Deca is usually associated with prolactin side effects not aromatization of estrogen and that's why test is used as a base? Plus dbol/deca doesn't even sound fun.

Low doses of adex can keep your estrogen at 50% and that's after test e aromatizes. Estane is best used in PCT because its a suicide inhibitor that has no estrogen rebound and boosts LH levels dramatically.

[DNAMP]

if i went with that cycle, and either added dbol or did not, would i need to ad something to keep my estrogen levels from going out of control? what would i ad, how much and how often? also how would my pct be for a 10 week cycle like this?

If your bf is low, you will most likely not have trouble with estrogen sides such as gyno or bloating. Take adex like e3d if you really want to do it consistently. But if your prone to estro sides the. Deff take it consistant. As far as pct

Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 150 first 3 days/100 for the rest of that week and next week. 50mg for 2 weeks after that
Total 4 weeks

[DangerDave]

Taking adex e3d it stupid. You are wasting money if you do because you are letting your blood potency go up and down. You must establish a steady blood level. That takes about 7days straight at .5-1mg ED. Read about adex. After a week then you can skip a day so you would take it eod.

Its half life is 46.8 hours. .5-1mg ed has proven to lower estrogen in post-puberty boys/men at around 50%.

Read my source or Google it for Christ sake before you give advice. Bro-science is bullsh*t.

Mauras N, Bishop K, Merinbaum D, Emeribe U, Agbo F, Lowe E (August 2009). "Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of anastrozole in pubertal boys with recent-onset gynecomastia".*"J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab."**94**(8): 2975-8.*doi
:10.1210/jc.2008-2527
.PMID
*19470631

*note that it has more great benefits than estro control. Google it..... and actually read about it.

[lboston]

Ok I will lay out a simple cycle. You then ask a question on the compounds..

Week 1-12 Test E 250mg 2x a week (500mg total)

Week1-4 dbol 30mg ed

Week2-12 Adex .5mg ed for 1 week then .5mg EOD wk3-12

Week 13-18 Exemestane 20-25mg EOD (you can do less time its more as needed to keep estrogen down and boost LH/Test levels.

Week 14-18 Clomid @ 50mg ED or 100/50/50/50. Nolva can be used instead but Clomid and nolva can't be used with adex because it fights your receptors.

Of course you can throw in basic supps like creatine, daily vitamins and DAA for pct.

Hope that helps man. Ask any questions. This is a basic cycle with ancillaries and pct to cover all angles in my opinion.

I was looking for something exactly like this...thanks

[DangerDave]

I was looking for something exactly like this...thanks

Your welcome. That is basic stuff. The AIs can be moved around but rule of thumb is (its not bro-science)-

you have to dose ed for 1 week to establish a solid/steady blood plasma level.

Then dose Ed or Eod to maintain that level.

It doesn't have to be used the whole time or at all. Remember this stuff wasn't around in arnolds day and what was didn't have much research behind it.

BUT why risk it? Or wait for sides before use? Wouldn't you rather not have them at all? Just food for thought.

[Neoamerican]

JME
My first cycle was
TestC 500mg EW wk1-12
Superdrol wk1-4 then 10-14
Had Adex+nolva on hand but never needed them.
Did clomid DAA pct Went from 190 to 215+ ripped in that time and i think the SD really dryed me up alot.20-30mg Kept 15lbs from that 1
First is always the best no matter what you pick , get ready and enjoy