Deca/Test log: version Smash Time

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  1. So a 1 week deload how often? Every 6 weeks? If I basically have two workout groups that I switch between, could I maybe make every third time I hit a group a deload workout and switch to low weight high repetition? Would that be significant enough, or does it really need to be a full body deload for 7-14 days? And then what weight do you start at after deload?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I did give you a sample. Drop sets are seldom used and are only on assistance lifts.
    Im talking about manbeast saying moving from xy to xyz. I think I understand what youre talking about with deload workouts, Ive already sort of started looking at my routine and tweeking it a bit.
    •   
       


  3. You basically focus on your primary lifts only, and do them at a reduced total weight/volume, enough to stimulate the muscle, but not tax it into heavy fatigue/failure.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  4. ohhhhhhhhhh gotcha...

    well for example, some programs call for set 1 to be 10 reps, set two to be 8 reps, and set 3 to be 6 reps. For this you really need to keep track of weights and progression amounts, and if you don't get the weight "right on" you kinda feel like you messed up a set (at least I did).

    what I do is pick a rep range for my goals (3-5 for strength, 6-8 for "balance", 9-12 for hypertrophy, and 12-15 for conditioning) and do working sets in that weight range. If on my first working set I hit my high number easy, I know I need to up the weight (and we all know how upping x lbs affects us), if I barely hit my bottom number, I should probably unload the bar a bit. Usually on the last set I'll push the weight up just a bit, and if I don't make my low number (but only miss by like 1) I'm pretty happy.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  5. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    So a 1 week deload how often? Every 6 weeks? If I basically have two workout groups that I switch between, could I maybe make every third time I hit a group a deload workout and switch to low weight high repetition? Would that be significant enough, or does it really need to be a full body deload for 7-14 days? And then what weight do you start at after deload?
    Your body will let you know when you need to deload, but it's generally every 4-6 weeks that it's needed. You can get away with 6 weeks of maxing out on anabolics, but you won't be able to do that while off cycle. Another way to look at a deload is to do what I call a "technique week." People lose their technique every now and then and taking a week to train that specifically is always a good idea. These are sets of maybe 5 reps, but done with as much bar speed as possible.

    After I'm done with a deload, I go immediately back into setting PRs on my lifts.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    How important is getting bloodwork before starting? I found out its going to be pretty pricey without health insurance, and I can't really afford more than just a basic physical and cholesterol check - hormones is a couple hundred dollars? Is that normal?

    thru privatemdlabs.com it is only around $50 for cholesterol check. For female hormone panel which includes total T, estradiol, LH, FSH and CBC for liver and kidney values it runs about $52 after a 15% discount...

  7. So are you trying to build mass or build strength? If you are going for strength then you better ask ole Rodja how it goes. But building muscle has a different approach. You don't max out every week in that case. You do move up in weight as you go, but keeping the weight at 65-75% of your 1RM and taking at least 2 out of 4 sets to failure would be ideal for muscle growth. Typically, for upper body I stay between 8-12 reps to failure and lower body anywhere from 7-15 reps, again, to failure. The only reason I ask is because I thought your first post said you want to get big. Big and strong aren't necessarily the same thing.

    For instance, when I started my cycle 12 weeks ago I could deep squat 225 X 8 times fresh and could usually do two sets like that before I was nearly spent and had to move to another exercise. Now, I can pyramid up to 315 doing normal squats and then turn around and deep squat 225 X 15 times after doing the pyramid. I've seen about a 60lb increase in squat strength overall as well. For bench, I've had about 40lbs increase or so just to give you an idea.

  8. I'm not insanely educated on this subject (as you will quickly realize lol), but doesn't running an anabolic cycle while on isotretinoin seem like a bad idea? When I was on it a few years ago they made me get bloodwork on a monthly basis to ensure that it wasn't messing with me too badly, and along with that my dermatologist forbade me from taking any supplements or vitamins. Unless I'm completely mistaken, isotretinoin mainly works on a hormonal level to try and alleviate acne caused by hormone imbalance. Wouldn't it follow, if you were taking something to try and balance your hormones, that injecting test, shutting down your system, and attempting to create what would be considered a pretty sizable imbalance (in the favor of testosterone) would be a bad idea? It seems like the drugs would not exactly agree with one another.

    Again, not terribly educated on this...when I was on accutane, I was given a "crash course" explanation of how it was meant to work by my derm, and who even knows how correct that was.

  9. Day 8(yesterday):

    Weight: 185.5

    Overhead press 110 5x5
    Front squat 150 5x5
    Front squat shrug 150 4x10
    and I finally moved up to 20 lb on my side delt raise 2x10. Never been able to move up on that before, it was weird, but last time I did 15 4x15 and tried it out 20.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast View Post
    ohhhhhhhhhh gotcha...

    well for example, some programs call for set 1 to be 10 reps, set two to be 8 reps, and set 3 to be 6 reps. For this you really need to keep track of weights and progression amounts, and if you don't get the weight "right on" you kinda feel like you messed up a set (at least I did).

    what I do is pick a rep range for my goals (3-5 for strength, 6-8 for "balance", 9-12 for hypertrophy, and 12-15 for conditioning) and do working sets in that weight range. If on my first working set I hit my high number easy, I know I need to up the weight (and we all know how upping x lbs affects us), if I barely hit my bottom number, I should probably unload the bar a bit. Usually on the last set I'll push the weight up just a bit, and if I don't make my low number (but only miss by like 1) I'm pretty happy.
    So it is a pyramid? I mean youre not really sure how high youre going to go, its kind of just based how many reps I can do? 190x15 195x13 200x10 205x7 210x6 215x5 220x2 for instance?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Your body will let you know when you need to deload, but it's generally every 4-6 weeks that it's needed. You can get away with 6 weeks of maxing out on anabolics, but you won't be able to do that while off cycle. Another way to look at a deload is to do what I call a "technique week." People lose their technique every now and then and taking a week to train that specifically is always a good idea. These are sets of maybe 5 reps, but done with as much bar speed as possible.

    After I'm done with a deload, I go immediately back into setting PRs on my lifts.
    Ok you have me sold, I'll make sure I incorporate that. It makes sense.

  12. No, its only kinda shakey the first week back into the program when I feel it out, after that I have a good idea where to start and I usually hit the middle and low end of my rep goals perfectly from there out.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  13. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    So are you trying to build mass or build strength? If you are going for strength then you better ask ole Rodja how it goes. But building muscle has a different approach. You don't max out every week in that case. You do move up in weight as you go, but keeping the weight at 65-75% of your 1RM and taking at least 2 out of 4 sets to failure would be ideal for muscle growth. Typically, for upper body I stay between 8-12 reps to failure and lower body anywhere from 7-15 reps, again, to failure. The only reason I ask is because I thought your first post said you want to get big. Big and strong aren't necessarily the same thing.

    For instance, when I started my cycle 12 weeks ago I could deep squat 225 X 8 times fresh and could usually do two sets like that before I was nearly spent and had to move to another exercise. Now, I can pyramid up to 315 doing normal squats and then turn around and deep squat 225 X 15 times after doing the pyramid. I've seen about a 60lb increase in squat strength overall as well. For bench, I've had about 40lbs increase or so just to give you an idea.

    My main focus is strength, but I'm keeping my calories high for size. Is bulking during strength training a contradiction? Cause I thought the best strength gains came with wet compounds, that's why anadrol is so good for strength athletes and power lifters, and that would mean a lot of size too? If I'm wrong and these aren't the same things then I'm misinformed.

    As Ive mentioned, I may want to move over to a 4x10 program at some point - might give me better results on cycle.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by GreenEarth View Post
    I'm not insanely educated on this subject (as you will quickly realize lol), but doesn't running an anabolic cycle while on isotretinoin seem like a bad idea? When I was on it a few years ago they made me get bloodwork on a monthly basis to ensure that it wasn't messing with me too badly, and along with that my dermatologist forbade me from taking any supplements or vitamins. Unless I'm completely mistaken, isotretinoin mainly works on a hormonal level to try and alleviate acne caused by hormone imbalance. Wouldn't it follow, if you were taking something to try and balance your hormones, that injecting test, shutting down your system, and attempting to create what would be considered a pretty sizable imbalance (in the favor of testosterone) would be a bad idea? It seems like the drugs would not exactly agree with one another.

    Again, not terribly educated on this...when I was on accutane, I was given a "crash course" explanation of how it was meant to work by my derm, and who even knows how correct that was.
    From what I understand accutane works by telling your subcutaneous glands to stop producing so much sebum, and to shrink. Yes on cycle you have androgens telling those glands to produce more, so it might be an uphill battle, but its still supposed to be effective cause your skin will produce less oil than without, and the glands will still shrink. I do not believe it balances your hormones, but balances your skin if you happen to have a problematic hormonal imbalance. Ive heard a lot of pros and cons to accutane, both on or off cycle, and I felt it was worth the risk - especially at a lower dosage. I take 20-40mg/day, tan for 15 minutes 3x/week, shower twice a day if possible, and use medicated soap and acne cream - been working pretty good so far... And to be perfectly honest, my case is not so bad that I would be able to get a prescription, and so I'm using research chemical grade. When I had brought up steroid use with my doctor in the past his advice was "do not take them," so I can only imagine what he'd say right now. hahaha

  15. So right now I'm taking test p 125mg eod, and deca 300mg test e 410mg per week split M/W/F(its a painful shot, feels better split up, and i figured this would give more stable test levels). First thing is I'm taking 2cc of deca and 3 cc of test and putting it together in a vile, and then pulling off that for dosing - is this ok? Next I'm thinking of raising the test e to 470mg/week deca 310, does anyone think I shouldn't? And finally I am reading Swale's HCG Protocol, and Im wondering if I'm dosing correctly - 250mcg M/F... It says like day of once a week shot and two days before that, but I have a different aas protocol.

    Thanks.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    My main focus is strength, but I'm keeping my calories high for size. Is bulking during strength training a contradiction? Cause I thought the best strength gains came with wet compounds, that's why anadrol is so good for strength athletes and power lifters, and that would mean a lot of size too? If I'm wrong and these aren't the same things then I'm misinformed.

    As Ive mentioned, I may want to move over to a 4x10 program at some point - might give me better results on cycle.
    Well most wet compounds are ideal for strength gains but even more so for muscle gains. I was just asking really. True strength training will not necessarily be very effective at mass gaining, although some gains should be realized regardless.

    When talking anabolics, I always aim for mass gains personally. My theory is that steroid strength will always escape you unless muscle mass has been added as well. Keeping muscle gains on the other hand really has more to do with your PCT protocol as well as bridging supplements. I'm not arguing with Rodja or anyone who is into the strength/power lifting stuff but I just try to realize as much gains as possible from these cycles. I couldn't justify steroid cycles if everything I benefited from the cycle was lost 4 weeks after stopping.

  17. Post up some results man! Pics or weight or measurements!

  18. Day 10:

    Weight: 186 (+4)

    Bench 205 5x5
    Deadlift 135x10 225x5 245x5
    Wide grip pullup 20 3x10 bwx10

    Great work out today. My muscles are starting to look really full again, and I'm getting super vascular... Hunger is through the roof, test makes me hungrier than ghrp I think.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by GreenEarth
    I'm not insanely educated on this subject (as you will quickly realize lol), but doesn't running an anabolic cycle while on isotretinoin seem like a bad idea? When I was on it a few years ago they made me get bloodwork on a monthly basis to ensure that it wasn't messing with me too badly, and along with that my dermatologist forbade me from taking any supplements or vitamins. Unless I'm completely mistaken, isotretinoin mainly works on a hormonal level to try and alleviate acne caused by hormone imbalance. Wouldn't it follow, if you were taking something to try and balance your hormones, that injecting test, shutting down your system, and attempting to create what would be considered a pretty sizable imbalance (in the favor of testosterone) would be a bad idea? It seems like the drugs would not exactly agree with one another.

    Again, not terribly educated on this...when I was on accutane, I was given a "crash course" explanation of how it was meant to work by my derm, and who even knows how correct that was.
    It's not hormonal, it's a derivative of vitamin A
    Getting back into the swing of things

  20. Quote Originally Posted by ReyMan

    It's not hormonal, it's a derivative of vitamin A
    Although I'm sure there are some hormonal effects, because when I was on it, I got crazy mood swings, like from depression to rage
    Getting back into the swing of things

  21. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904
    So right now I'm taking test p 125mg eod, and deca 300mg test e 410mg per week split M/W/F(its a painful shot, feels better split up, and i figured this would give more stable test levels). First thing is I'm taking 2cc of deca and 3 cc of test and putting it together in a vile, and then pulling off that for dosing - is this ok? Next I'm thinking of raising the test e to 470mg/week deca 310, does anyone think I shouldn't? And finally I am reading Swale's HCG Protocol, and Im wondering if I'm dosing correctly - 250mcg M/F... It says like day of once a week shot and two days before that, but I have a different aas protocol.

    Thanks.
    Any thoughts?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion

    Well most wet compounds are ideal for strength gains but even more so for muscle gains. I was just asking really. True strength training will not necessarily be very effective at mass gaining, although some gains should be realized regardless.

    When talking anabolics, I always aim for mass gains personally. My theory is that steroid strength will always escape you unless muscle mass has been added as well. Keeping muscle gains on the other hand really has more to do with your PCT protocol as well as bridging supplements. I'm not arguing with Rodja or anyone who is into the strength/power lifting stuff but I just try to realize as much gains as possible from these cycles. I couldn't justify steroid cycles if everything I benefited from the cycle was lost 4 weeks after stopping.
    You know what? Your theory seems kind of dead on. My strength has always been directly proportional to my weight, and in pct my strength sticks if my weight stays. As soon as I start dropping pounds I start coming up short on sets, and lowering my weight. If I focus on mass I will get stronger too, and will retain more in pct.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by jaderjader321
    Post up some results man! Pics or weight or measurements!
    Every day I log I put down weight and strength increases. So far I'm up 4 lbs, which means I've completed 16% of my weight goal, and I'm only two weeks in - have 14 weeks left.

  24. So my friend is telling me that at 10-12 weeks I should stop the deca, and start up tren ace for the remainder of cycle. I don't know if I'll need to, I have a feeling deca is going to be awesome, and might want to do a test p tren ace for my next cycle. I am thinking of running anavar the last 3 weeks to solidify gains, and to see how I react to test/progestin/dht at the same time.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    You know what? Your theory seems kind of dead on. My strength has always been directly proportional to my weight, and in pct my strength sticks if my weight stays. As soon as I start dropping pounds I start coming up short on sets, and lowering my weight. If I focus on mass I will get stronger too, and will retain more in pct.
    It's called leverage. Generally speaking, being heavier will give you better leverage for strength. This is another reason why I don't try to put on insane amounts of mass on-cycle: it's not going to stick around once you're done. However, modest gains (5-8 lbs) can be maintained along with your leverages.

    Maximal strength development is something that very few people understand. It has much less to do with muscle mass than 99% of people think. It is determined primarily by the CNS and technique. That's why you see dude's that are 150 lbs and bench 315 lbs; they understand technique and have an efficient CNS. To quote Louie Simmons, "Big isn't strong; strong is strong."
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  26. I wouldn't run both deca and tren in this cycle, I'd stop the deca 2 weeks before you stop the test though.
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    It's called leverage. Generally speaking, being heavier will give you better leverage for strength. This is another reason why I don't try to put on insane amounts of mass on-cycle: it's not going to stick around once you're done. However, modest gains (5-8 lbs) can be maintained along with your leverages.

    Maximal strength development is something that very few people understand. It has much less to do with muscle mass than 99% of people think. It is determined primarily by the CNS and technique. That's why you see dude's that are 150 lbs and bench 315 lbs; they understand technique and have an efficient CNS. To quote Louie Simmons, "Big isn't strong; strong is strong."
    Which is why you are able to get stronger even when you're not gaining weight. But the chemistry in your body is different when your on cycle vs not on cycle, so it would make sense to focus on getting the most mass(lbm) so that in pct you maintain more leverage(strength). If you expect to maintain 80% of your mass, then you could expect to maintain the same strength if its directly proportional.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    I wouldn't run both deca and tren in this cycle, I'd stop the deca 2 weeks before you stop the test though.
    It was just a suggestion he made, I don't think its likely I'd do it. I'm already pretty sure I'm increasing the dose on test, and I could increase the amount of deca I'm taking, but he thinks I'd really like tren.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    Which is why you are able to get stronger even when you're not gaining weight. But the chemistry in your body is different when your on cycle vs not on cycle, so it would make sense to focus on getting the most mass(lbm) so that in pct you maintain more leverage(strength). If you expect to maintain 80% of your mass, then you could expect to maintain the same strength if its directly proportional.
    There isn't any exact proportion between strength and mass. The CNS is really what determines the strength of a person. Myofibrillar hypertrophy doesn't add a huge amount of mass, but it is the muscular portion that is responsible for strength. A bigger muscle has the potential​ to be a stronger muscle, but they do not go directly hand in hand.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  30. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    There isn't any exact proportion between strength and mass. The CNS is really what determines the strength of a person. Myofibrillar hypertrophy doesn't add a huge amount of mass, but it is the muscular portion that is responsible for strength. A bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle, but they do not go directly hand in hand.
    But for the purposes of trying to maintain as much strength in pct couldn't it be looked at like the more lbm you acquire and maintain, the less you're strength would dip? It seemed like you were saying to to move away from my 5x5 strength program, and focus more on hypertrophy, which is basically what my friend was telling me.
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