Exhausted 24/7 while on cycle...help

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    Exclamation Exhausted 24/7 while on cycle...help


    This is now my 5th cycle. I have had experience with Test E, Tren, EQ, Dboll, Winny, and a few other things. This was my first time trying superdrol. I am currently just into my 7th week. The cycle looks as follows:

    Weeks 1-4 Beastdrol 20/20/30/30 ed
    Weeks 1-12 Test E 1,000mg/ew

    Supplements:

    3.5g fish oil ed
    3g flaxseed oil ed
    multi
    milk thistle
    whey protein
    casein protein

    I am tired just about 24/7. Tired to the point where I can just always sleep more, take a nap, yawning, the whole nine yards. I even sometimes yawn while working out, even though my workouts are always top notch. I cannot figure this out. I thought it had something to do with the Beast, but I have now been off of that for about 3 weeks. I'm still tired all the dang time. I basically just workout, go to class, eat, and sleep. It's tough staying up past like 9pm, even when I sleep in till 1 or 2pm. I am eating plenty of carbs so I am not carb depleted or anything.

    Anyone have any ideas?

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    If you're exhausted on a test cycle...Umm you got bunk test...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    If you're exhausted on a test cycle...Umm you got bunk test...
    I can gurantee you I don't. I've been hitting PR's on lifts and wake up every day not feeling sore at all. My strength continues to jump up every week and not by like 5lbs a lift, like 15-20. Way past natural growth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    If you're exhausted on a test cycle...Umm you got bunk test...
    or 1g of test is too much for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudog View Post
    I can gurantee you I don't. I've been hitting PR's on lifts and wake up every day not feeling sore at all. My strength continues to jump up every week and not by like 5lbs a lift, like 15-20. Way past natural growth.
    Interesting, I really don't know what could be the issue then. How has your body weight changed since you started the cycle, and any anti aromatase use with it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpapa View Post
    or 1g of test is too much for you.
    It wouldn't cause lethargy though.
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    Superdrol without enough carbs = lethargy.

    Up your carbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    Superdrol without enough carbs = lethargy.

    Up your carbs.
    If beastdrol is superdrol, then yes that is a very accurate equation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    If beastdrol is superdrol, then yes that is a very accurate equation.
    When we did that exclusive run of Designer's Superdrol through Bulk Nutrition back in 2004, I grabbed THE FIRST bottle that arrived.

    Took me a few days to figure out why I felt like total hell, but once I upped carbs everything went great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    It wouldn't cause lethargy though.
    i know alot of guys who did 1g of test and it killed their energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    When we did that exclusive run of Designer's Superdrol through Bulk Nutrition back in 2004, I grabbed THE FIRST bottle that arrived.

    Took me a few days to figure out why I felt like total hell, but once I upped carbs everything went great.
    Yea, I still have a bottle and a half of that version, and got a european (London) version through Dr.D called Genetic SD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Yea, I still have a bottle and a half of that version, and got a european (London) version through Dr.D called Genetic SD.
    I've tried clones since then and hated every one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    I've tried clones since then and hated every one.
    I agree, nothing is like the original run of Superdrol. Great compound.
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    I have an original DS bottle that I haven't opened... but he stopped the superdrol 3 weeks ago, so its not that.

    I'd have to wonder if its something else going on medically. No real easy way to tell what though.
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    When did you have your thyroid last checked?
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    Pretty sure this is the same guy who had a thread about his possible high blood pressure. Well guess what OP? Lethargy is a symptom of high blood pressure. 1g of test + Superdrol at your height and weight is a perfect storm for hypertension. Check your BP.
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    I have been off the SD for 3 weeks, that should have no bearing on why I feel like this. I don't have the attacks like I was having while on SD that I felt was BP related.

    I'm just tired, like all the damn time. I have gained tons of weight and strength on this cycle, if I wasn't continue to gain constantly I would just cut it short. I guess I will have my friend come over and check my bp make sure it's not all ****ed up. There just has to be something else going on to make me feel like this!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsade View Post
    When we did that exclusive run of Designer's Superdrol through Bulk Nutrition back in 2004, I grabbed THE FIRST bottle that arrived.

    Took me a few days to figure out why I felt like total hell, but once I upped carbs everything went great.
    what is your science here?

    There is no proof that SD with low carbs causes lethargy


    it has been reported yes, but i know people who have run it in a cut with low carbs and been fine


    so i do not think sd causes this but then again i have no science either....none of us do since sd isnt going to be researched by those in the medical field
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwellington View Post
    what is your science here?

    There is no proof that SD with low carbs causes lethargy


    it has been reported yes, but i know people who have run it in a cut with low carbs and been fine


    so i do not think sd causes this but then again i have no science either....none of us do since sd isnt going to be researched by those in the medical field
    Lots of people get lethargy on SD and it is alleviated by increasing carbs. I read about this a lot.
    But everybody's carb response is different... I can do 0 carbs on SD and I'm fine... I can go keto and my energy is unaffected, that is just how I respond... high carbs makes me fat too.

    I would expect BP must be very high to cause lethargy on that scale... I have had elevated BP on cycle, we all have, but waking up at 1pm and falling asleep at 9pm is unimaginable for me, I've never slept that much in my entire life.

    Consider an alternative theory
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    Tripdog asked the question but I didn't see an answer. I have gone through periods of sleeping 20 hours a day and after extensive bloodwork and speaking with numerous sleep specialist and endocrinologists my first thought when I saw your post was to ask if you are running an AI. The serms have some effect on daytime sleepiness but the issue of free estrogen levels and fatigue really came to light with the introduction of Arimidex. Aromasin, Letrozole etc. followed and people ended up gunning for near zero estrogen levels. Often the extreme lethargy was blamed on contest dieting but estrogen appears essential for vigilance. Too much cortisol inhibition can of course leave you exhausted as well. The SD is supposed to have some anti estrogenic effect so I ask again, what are you using for estrogen control? It is almost always just a matter of reducing the dosage if an AI is the culprit. The other very simple explanation is that you are just growing at a rate that requires ATP uncoupling throughout the day to provide the catalyst for a massive increase in protein synthesis. D-ribose and Creatine will help anyone with fatigue issues. Another common culprit is an allergy of any kind, but gluten and lactose and even casein are very common and anytime we are compromising our immune system in any way we are opening up to developing food allergies. I developed an allergy to oats and that was all I wanted to eat. I missed a semester of school because of oats and eventually had to count getting out of bed to pee was my main goal for the day. I stopped the oats and now have much loftier goals. I wish you the best, check your temp upon rising on the off chance that there is a thyroid issue but I don't think you would be seeing such gains. Both progesterone and estrogen over suppression can exhaust a man. I hope it is that simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Bageris View Post
    Tripdog asked the question but I didn't see an answer. I have gone through periods of sleeping 20 hours a day and after extensive bloodwork and speaking with numerous sleep specialist and endocrinologists my first thought when I saw your post was to ask if you are running an AI. The serms have some effect on daytime sleepiness but the issue of free estrogen levels and fatigue really came to light with the introduction of Arimidex. Aromasin, Letrozole etc. followed and people ended up gunning for near zero estrogen levels. Often the extreme lethargy was blamed on contest dieting but estrogen appears essential for vigilance. Too much cortisol inhibition can of course leave you exhausted as well. The SD is supposed to have some anti estrogenic effect so I ask again, what are you using for estrogen control? It is almost always just a matter of reducing the dosage if an AI is the culprit. The other very simple explanation is that you are just growing at a rate that requires ATP uncoupling throughout the day to provide the catalyst for a massive increase in protein synthesis. D-ribose and Creatine will help anyone with fatigue issues. Another common culprit is an allergy of any kind, but gluten and lactose and even casein are very common and anytime we are compromising our immune system in any way we are opening up to developing food allergies. I developed an allergy to oats and that was all I wanted to eat. I missed a semester of school because of oats and eventually had to count getting out of bed to pee was my main goal for the day. I stopped the oats and now have much loftier goals. I wish you the best, check your temp upon rising on the off chance that there is a thyroid issue but I don't think you would be seeing such gains. Both progesterone and estrogen over suppression can exhaust a man. I hope it is that simple.
    Yea, I am currious about what he is or isn't taking in regards to hormone stabilization/manipulation.
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    i took one cap aromasin (20mg) for the last 2 weeks, im f`ing exhausted all day long as well. Im stopping the Aro this week,or switching to e3d, its affecting me at work, and have a lack of motivation for training. If you are on a AI, i would try lowering the dose or cutting it al out.
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    nothing to add, but this is def. interesting stuff!
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    Get a blood-test done and check your hormones and thyroid.
    If your test is high, its real. If your test is in the ****ter, you're pinning some other AAS.
    The blood test will also rule out diabetes and hypothyroidism (so get your blood sugar and thyroid checked).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Bageris View Post
    Tripdog asked the question but I didn't see an answer. I have gone through periods of sleeping 20 hours a day and after extensive bloodwork and speaking with numerous sleep specialist and endocrinologists my first thought when I saw your post was to ask if you are running an AI. The serms have some effect on daytime sleepiness but the issue of free estrogen levels and fatigue really came to light with the introduction of Arimidex. Aromasin, Letrozole etc. followed and people ended up gunning for near zero estrogen levels. Often the extreme lethargy was blamed on contest dieting but estrogen appears essential for vigilance. Too much cortisol inhibition can of course leave you exhausted as well. The SD is supposed to have some anti estrogenic effect so I ask again, what are you using for estrogen control? It is almost always just a matter of reducing the dosage if an AI is the culprit. The other very simple explanation is that you are just growing at a rate that requires ATP uncoupling throughout the day to provide the catalyst for a massive increase in protein synthesis. D-ribose and Creatine will help anyone with fatigue issues. Another common culprit is an allergy of any kind, but gluten and lactose and even casein are very common and anytime we are compromising our immune system in any way we are opening up to developing food allergies. I developed an allergy to oats and that was all I wanted to eat. I missed a semester of school because of oats and eventually had to count getting out of bed to pee was my main goal for the day. I stopped the oats and now have much loftier goals. I wish you the best, check your temp upon rising on the off chance that there is a thyroid issue but I don't think you would be seeing such gains. Both progesterone and estrogen over suppression can exhaust a man. I hope it is that simple.

    Very interesting. I am just finishing up some Letro, and I am tired as a mofo all day. Not as much as the OP, but I can sleep til noon or one easy, and have to MAKE myself get up at that, which before the letro, no way no how. Up early and lots of energy and vigilance. Glad you posted this. I am tapering off now, so we'll see how the energy level is affected.
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    Let me guess. This is ur first time using a gram right. It's the test bro it happens to so manny people. I ran exact same cycle just two two week pulses of m drol. I felt just like that. Drop down the test.
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    hcg my friend.. hcg
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigzach1234 View Post
    hcg my friend.. hcg
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    recently i had a similar problem with beastdrol and headaches and also slight lethargy...i was told by some of the AM boys to up my carb intake and it worked a treat. FEEL GREAT NOW!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudog View Post
    This is now my 5th cycle. I have had experience with Test E, Tren, EQ, Dboll, Winny, and a few other things. This was my first time trying superdrol. I am currently just into my 7th week. The cycle looks as follows:

    Weeks 1-4 Beastdrol 20/20/30/30 ed
    Weeks 1-12 Test E 1,000mg/ew

    Supplements:

    3.5g fish oil ed
    3g flaxseed oil ed
    multi
    milk thistle
    whey protein
    casein protein

    I am tired just about 24/7. Tired to the point where I can just always sleep more, take a nap, yawning, the whole nine yards. I even sometimes yawn while working out, even though my workouts are always top notch. I cannot figure this out. I thought it had something to do with the Beast, but I have now been off of that for about 3 weeks. I'm still tired all the dang time. I basically just workout, go to class, eat, and sleep. It's tough staying up past like 9pm, even when I sleep in till 1 or 2pm. I am eating plenty of carbs so I am not carb depleted or anything.

    Anyone have any ideas?

    The issue with Superdrol I think is a compounded one. While I agree that it has been shown through anecdotal feedback to really eat up carbs and fill glycogen reserves quickly, i'd also wager that it's shutting down your endogenous test production just as quickly. Seeing that you're using a longer acting ester of test here (Enanthate), this all makes sense in the end. Once your body is shutdown and becomes hypogonadal, lethargy is a very common side effect. Ask any guy that's currently on TRT how they felt beforehand.....until they integrated that supplement modality to mitigate those effects.

    Now.....I think much of this could be avoided if you frontload with a shorter acting ester (prop) for a few weeks while the enanthate begins to kick in (week 5-6). This in addition to the use of hCG on cycle (which should be a MUST on every cycle) should help to alleviate some of these symptoms overall.

    I'm speaking from a scientific standpoint here. Hypogonadal men exhibit the exact same type of symptoms before they intervene with TRT. While I absolutely agree that maintaining a sufficient level of carbohydrates is paramount, that's only part of the problem.

    No test = feeling like ****; plain and simple. Some of these designers probably affect the HPTA in varying degrees of suppression; so the overall feeling is not as pronounced. There are no scietific studies on just about all the designers, so we're left to go off anecdotes and speculation. Look at M1T for example.....lethargy, lethargy, lethargy. I'd bet my paycheck that it's due to the fact that suppression is aggressive.

    I advise you look into useing hCG on all your future cycles. It will help your body maintain some of its own endogenous test production and prevent the desensitization that can occur though the use of exogenous hormones; which can leave permanent effects on our HPTA rendering you hypogonadal in the end.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    The issue with Superdrol I think is a compounded one. While I agree that it has been shown through anecdotal feedback to really eat up carbs and fill glycogen reserves quickly, i'd also wager that it's shutting down your endogenous test production just as quickly. Seeing that you're using a longer acting ester of test here (Enanthate), this all makes sense in the end. Once your body is shutdown and becomes hypogonadal, lethargy is a very common side effect. Ask any guy that's currently on TRT how they felt beforehand.....until they integrated that supplement modality to mitigate those effects.

    Now.....I think much of this could be avoided if you frontload with a shorter acting ester (prop) for a few weeks while the enanthate begins to kick in (week 5-6). This in addition to the use of hCG on cycle (which should be a MUST on every cycle) should help to alleviate some of these symptoms overall.

    I'm speaking from a scientific standpoint here. Hypogonadal men exhibit the exact same type of symptoms before they intervene with TRT. While I absolutely agree that maintaining a sufficient level of carbohydrates is paramount, that's only part of the problem.

    No test = feeling like ****; plain and simple. Some of these designers probably affect the HPTA in varying degrees of suppression; so the overall feeling is not as pronounced. There are no scietific studies on just about all the designers, so we're left to go off anecdotes and speculation. Look at M1T for example.....lethargy, lethargy, lethargy. I'd bet my paycheck that it's due to the fact that suppression is aggressive.

    I advise you look into useing hCG on all your future cycles. It will help your body maintain some of its own endogenous test production and prevent the desensitization that can occur though the use of exogenous hormones; which can leave permanent effects on our HPTA rendering you hypogonadal in the end.




    -John
    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, but I'm just confused by your suggestion.

    He's on 1000mg/wk of test-e...so it shouldn't matter if he is suppressed by any means, or even if he had not frontloaded. One shot at 1000mg is enough to supply way beyond human range, without even having to wait for the ester to kick in.

    I think his issues are thyroid related. No one in here has mention t3. Testosterone, steroids etc..especially in higher dosages, are proven to lower t3 substantially. Could this be where the source of fatigue? Simply the fact the the workouts, muscle growth, metabolism is so insane with the dosages that the adrenals/thryoid can't keep up.

    However, regardless of the testosterone replacement in the system, suppression of the HPTA can lead to lowered production of DHEA and pregnenolone i think...which help with fatigue/energy levels. HCG restores preg. levels tremendously. Whenever i shoot HCG, I feel a slight buzz of energy...sometimes it gives me an uncomfortable anxiety rush.
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    to the op, on a side note, just how insane is 1000mg/week of test? I've run 500mg and didn't feel to much at all...I want to bump it up to 600-750...but something inside me just wants to pin 1000mg week like you hahaha.....is the water retention/estrogen conversion/etc much much more pronounced, like double?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Bageris View Post
    Tripdog asked the question but I didn't see an answer. I have gone through periods of sleeping 20 hours a day and after extensive bloodwork and speaking with numerous sleep specialist and endocrinologists my first thought when I saw your post was to ask if you are running an AI. The serms have some effect on daytime sleepiness but the issue of free estrogen levels and fatigue really came to light with the introduction of Arimidex. Aromasin, Letrozole etc. followed and people ended up gunning for near zero estrogen levels. Often the extreme lethargy was blamed on contest dieting but estrogen appears essential for vigilance. Too much cortisol inhibition can of course leave you exhausted as well. The SD is supposed to have some anti estrogenic effect so I ask again, what are you using for estrogen control? It is almost always just a matter of reducing the dosage if an AI is the culprit. The other very simple explanation is that you are just growing at a rate that requires ATP uncoupling throughout the day to provide the catalyst for a massive increase in protein synthesis. D-ribose and Creatine will help anyone with fatigue issues. Another common culprit is an allergy of any kind, but gluten and lactose and even casein are very common and anytime we are compromising our immune system in any way we are opening up to developing food allergies. I developed an allergy to oats and that was all I wanted to eat. I missed a semester of school because of oats and eventually had to count getting out of bed to pee was my main goal for the day. I stopped the oats and now have much loftier goals. I wish you the best, check your temp upon rising on the off chance that there is a thyroid issue but I don't think you would be seeing such gains. Both progesterone and estrogen over suppression can exhaust a man. I hope it is that simple.
    I am not using an AI...I never have, so didn't start now.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, but I'm just confused by your suggestion.

    He's on 1000mg/wk of test-e...so it shouldn't matter if he is suppressed by any means, or even if he had not frontloaded. One shot at 1000mg is enough to supply way beyond human range, without even having to wait for the ester to kick in.

    I think his issues are thyroid related. No one in here has mention t3. Testosterone, steroids etc..especially in higher dosages, are proven to lower t3 substantially. Could this be where the source of fatigue? Simply the fact the the workouts, muscle growth, metabolism is so insane with the dosages that the adrenals/thryoid can't keep up.

    However, regardless of the testosterone replacement in the system, suppression of the HPTA can lead to lowered production of DHEA and pregnenolone i think...which help with fatigue/energy levels. HCG restores preg. levels tremendously. Whenever i shoot HCG, I feel a slight buzz of energy...sometimes it gives me an uncomfortable anxiety rush.

    How is it that you're confused exactly? I've laid it out fairly coherently. Do you not understand the configuration of different esters and their serum concentraions over a given time period? It's blantantly apparent that you don't...

    If there was no underlying thyroid hormone issue, why would you suddenly suspect this? If that was an issue, it wouldn have been apparent well before this cycle began.



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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    to the op, on a side note, just how insane is 1000mg/week of test? I've run 500mg and didn't feel to much at all...I want to bump it up to 600-750...but something inside me just wants to pin 1000mg week like you hahaha.....is the water retention/estrogen conversion/etc much much more pronounced, like double?
    I don't retain that much water at all at 500 or 1,000mg. So for me it's not a problem.
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    as far as HCG is concerned I have never used it, some people swear by it and some people never use it......so it's like a toss up to me....but if people think that it would make a difference now...I will get some and try it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudog View Post
    as far as HCG is concerned I have never used it, some people swear by it and some people never use it......so it's like a toss up to me....but if people think that it would make a difference now...I will get some and try it out.
    It's a HUGE difference when using it. You won't regret it.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    How is it that you're confused exactly? I've laid it out fairly coherently. Do you not understand the configuration of different esters and their serum concentraions over a given time period? It's blantantly apparent that you don't...

    If there was no underlying thyroid hormone issue, why would you suddenly suspect this? If that was an issue, it wouldn have been apparent well before this cycle began.



    -John
    Well, just confused regarding the syptoms of shutdown your metion that he may be experiencing from the superdrol. Without a test base, taking superdrol would cause nearly immediate suppression causing fatigue, etc... right? But with adaquate testosterone support, via exogeneous source and/or HCG, this should allievate the shutdown symptoms brought upon by the superdrol right?

    Ok, well you were stating to front-load with a shorter ester, to provide testosterone levels immediately, to counteract the shutdown, IE prop or suspension. My confusion lies in the ester concentrations...I guess I obviously dont understand. .............

    I was under the impression, that a single shot, of a long ester like Cyp or Enanthate, dosed at 1gram, should be such a huge amount alone, that the serum levels achieved from the SINGLE shot, (without waiting for the ester release to build in the following 2-3wks) should provide enough immediate replacement of testosterone to at least achieve human levels...IE 250-1000ng. Obviously not until weeks 3-4, will the levels build to maximum superphysiological levels.

    SO, by deductive reasoning, I was simply stating that it may not be a lack of testosterone/suppression during the superdrol period that was causing the fatigue, because the such a high dose of test should provide plenty of T support regardless of the length/weight of the ester.




    Additonally to the OP, HCG is NOT going to do much for you ON-cycle, but will save your life when you enter POST-cycle. In fact, you wont notice it at all if you are on 1000mg/wk of test. Its just going to keep your nuts full. The amount of endogenous test maintained by the HCG will be great, but it will be completely dwarfed by the high level of exogeneous test your are using. You may notice the pregnenolone affects and an increase in estrogen from HCG usage. However, AFTERWARDS, you should notice a huge increase in recovery speed during PCT, as your leydig cells will still be full and functional, and all you need is the LH signal from your pituitary (no longer have to wait for nuts to grow back)

    If you choose to run HCG, use it in SMALL doses. 500iu-700iu/week MAX. Use it every week, from week 4 of your cycle or earlier. These bro's waiting till their nuts have already shrunk and using 5,000IU/wk are just ruining their nuts by desensitizing the leydig cells to LH.

    Im on TRT, 100mg/wk of Test-C and 250iu/2x wk of HCG. I didn't notice much with the addition of HCG besides a little well-being boost, and sometimes axiety from adrenal effects, and e2 increase.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Well, just confused regarding the syptoms of shutdown your metion that he may be experiencing from the superdrol. Without a test base, taking superdrol would cause nearly immediate suppression causing fatigue, etc... right? But with adaquate testosterone support, via exogeneous source and/or HCG, this should allievate the shutdown symptoms brought upon by the superdrol right?

    Ok, well you were stating to front-load with a shorter ester, to provide testosterone levels immediately, to counteract the shutdown, IE prop or suspension. My confusion lies in the ester concentrations...I guess I obviously dont understand. .............

    I was under the impression, that a single shot, of a long ester like Cyp or Enanthate, dosed at 1gram, should be such a huge amount alone, that the serum levels achieved from the SINGLE shot, (without waiting for the ester release to build in the following 2-3wks) should provide enough immediate replacement of testosterone to at least achieve human levels...IE 250-1000ng. Obviously not until weeks 3-4, will the levels build to maximum superphysiological levels.

    SO, by deductive reasoning, I was simply stating that it may not be a lack of testosterone/suppression during the superdrol period that was causing the fatigue, because the such a high dose of test should provide plenty of T support regardless of the length/weight of the ester.




    Additonally to the OP, HCG is NOT going to do much for you ON-cycle, but will save your life when you enter POST-cycle. In fact, you wont notice it at all if you are on 1000mg/wk of test. Its just going to keep your nuts full. The amount of endogenous test maintained by the HCG will be great, but it will be completely dwarfed by the high level of exogeneous test your are using. You may notice the pregnenolone affects and an increase in estrogen from HCG usage. However, AFTERWARDS, you should notice a huge increase in recovery speed during PCT, as your leydig cells will still be full and functional, and all you need is the LH signal from your pituitary (no longer have to wait for nuts to grow back)

    If you choose to run HCG, use it in SMALL doses. 500iu-700iu/week MAX. Use it every week, from week 4 of your cycle or earlier. These bro's waiting till their nuts have already shrunk and using 5,000IU/wk are just ruining their nuts by desensitizing the leydig cells to LH.

    Im on TRT, 100mg/wk of Test-C and 250iu/2x wk of HCG. I didn't notice much with the addition of HCG besides a little well-being boost, and sometimes axiety from adrenal effects, and e2 increase.
    I'm with you on the ester thing, since there is no way in hell that his test levels are low and causing him lethargy. A single shot of test will put your levels above normal just hours after the fact. You don't need to wait 4-5 weeks for your TT to build up to 6000ng/ml before you stop feeling shutdown from SD.
    However, HCG while on a test cycle can be felt not from the boost of natural test that it provides, but because the brain has many LH receptors that are responsible for mood and well-being. This is why HCG is important to TRT patients, even if they don't give a rat's ass about their sperm count.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    I'm with you on the ester thing, since there is no way in hell that his test levels are low and causing him lethargy. A single shot of test will put your levels above normal just hours after the fact. You don't need to wait 4-5 weeks for your TT to build up to 6000ng/ml before you stop feeling shutdown from SD.
    However, HCG while on a test cycle can be felt not from the boost of natural test that it provides, but because the brain has many LH receptors that are responsible for mood and well-being. This is why HCG is important to TRT patients, even if they don't give a rat's ass about their sperm count.
    The LH receptors are a great point! Thanks for backing me up, some people come in here making claims and then get so offended when you call them out...hahah!
  

  
 

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