Opinions on short test-e cycle

[Dragon13]

OK, let me throw out a quick hypothetical situation: let's say someone has access to test-e only as a first cycle ( not entirely accurate, but again this is hypothetical ). Let's assume this person has already planned a rather extensive cycle to kick off in March of 2011. Let's also assume that, because of various circumstances, the test-e on hand was supposed to have already been run, but sadly the person did not get a chance to do so until now. This person could begin a cycle as of Monday, if so desired.

Now - what are everyone's opinions on running test-e for, say, 4-6 weeks @ 500mg/week? Obviously not the ideal compound to do so, but with a frontload to get blood levels up immediately, and perhaps 2-3 weeks of orals on the back end as the ester clears - would this not be a pretty solid cycle? That way, the hypothetical user could cycle now, be finished with PCT by early January at the latest, and then have a somewhat reasonable amount of time off before cycling again in mid-March, and maybe as late as April. This is a first test cycle, so the idea is to not only get a cycle in now, but also to pop the cherry and learn what to expect before multiple compounds next year.

Opinions?

[timmmah]

Tell your "freind" to get another bottle and do more research before begining a cycle. He should know the ester properties of Enanthate if he is going to run it, and would therefore know that 10 weeks is a minimum in the relationship of sides to gains.

[EasyEJL]

The only way test e is worth running less than 10 weeks is to use the alri building the perfect beast protocol, which is not bright for first cycle.

[Dragon13]

OK - do either of you understand what frontloading is? I am well aware of enanthate's half-life.

[DetroitHammer]

So you have a 10 mL vial of Test E, 250mg/mL laying around and feel you have to use it? At 500mg per wk, you have 5wks max out of that vial. That's the worst reason I ever heard of for wanting to start a cycle, albeit very short. You don't have enough gear to frontload, backwash or rinse. You're getting too excited about that vial just sitting around. Leave it alone until you have enough to do a bona fide cycle, with all your PCT gear on hand and the orals you desire ready to pop. Test e/c should be your base, so I don't follow your earlier statement that not being an ideal compound.

[Dragon13]

So you have a 10 mL vial of Test E, 250mg/mL laying around and feel you have to use it? At 500mg per wk, you have 5wks max out of that vial. That's the worst reason I ever heard of for wanting to start a cycle, albeit very short. You don't have enough gear to frontload, backwash or rinse. You're getting too excited about that vial just sitting around. Leave it alone until you have enough to do a bona fide cycle, with all your PCT gear on hand and the orals you desire ready to pop. Test e/c should be your base, so I don't follow your earlier statement that not being an ideal compound.

This is becoming an exercise in futility.

There are multiple bottles of test-e. Where did I ever say there was only 1 bottle available? I said there was only 1 compound available, specifically, only 1 test ester: test-e. But thanks for jumping to conclusions.

The whole point of the thread was this: Regular cycle planned for March-April 2011. Because of various circumstances, a "smaller" cycle that was supposed to kick off in August did not. Bearing in mind the following facts:

1) Cycle planned in 2011 is a definite
2) Only test is test-e
3) Test-e would be frontloaded
4) Orals/PCT all on hand

... would a short, frontloaded test-e cycle, with perhaps orals at the end as the ester clears, be worth it? And specifically, why or why not?

[slacker86]

Dont waste the test on a 6 week cycle. i (used to) frontload with a gram a week and i still dont really see much effects until week 3, felt it kick in faster but no real visual gains till the third week.

The whole point of long esters is to easily run a compound longer so the gains are more permenant. i dont think you will see many gains and certainly not enough to warrant wasting the test on such a short cycle. Yes u can use orals to endload while the esters clear, however you probably could get the same results by running an orals only cycle and just forget about the test.

What frontloading regiment are you looking at? cause i havent seen a lot of ppl ffrontload with over a gram a week, and i feel at least a gram and a half would be required to really start getting visual effects from test E quickly.

[DetroitHammer]

This is becoming an exercise in futility.

There are multiple bottles of test-e. Where did I ever say there was only 1 bottle available? I said there was only 1 compound available, specifically, only 1 test ester: test-e. But thanks for jumping to conclusions.

The whole point of the thread was this: Regular cycle planned for March-April 2011. Because of various circumstances, a "smaller" cycle that was supposed to kick off in August did not. Bearing in mind the following facts:

1) Cycle planned in 2011 is a definite
2) Only test is test-e
3) Test-e would be frontloaded
4) Orals/PCT all on hand

... would a short, frontloaded test-e cycle, with perhaps orals at the end as the ester clears, be worth it? And specifically, why or why not?

Don't get your panties in a bunch. You come on with a rather stupid question, talking as if your friend has a "situation" so we have to make assumptions to follow your train of thought. If you want a straight answer, stop with the childish bull**** and just get to the point. What you proposed was stupid and shows zero knowledge of AAS. Regardless if you have a warehouse of full Test E tempting you or just one vial, listen to what everyone is saying and if you want straight answers, give some straight questions. Your proposed cycle sucks. If you don't know why, or why not, you shouldn't be using AAS.

[EasyEJL]

OK - do either of you understand what frontloading is? I am well aware of enanthate's half-life.

Do you understand what it is? It's not magic. With frontloading heavily (which will increase sides, and bad idea for first test run) maybe an 8 week cycle is worthwhile. The exercise in futility is trying to do a 4-6 week long ester cycle.

[Ms9]

OK - do either of you understand what frontloading is? I am well aware of enanthate's half-life.

Gosh y'all got served by the expert.

[Markusrulezzz]

Test E for 4 - 6 weeks = waste of money, waste of time, waste of our time, waste of TEST !!!

10 is minimum

[bigpapa]

Do you understand what it is? It's not magic. With frontloading heavily (which will increase sides, and bad idea for first test run) maybe an 8 week cycle is worthwhile. The exercise in futility is trying to do a 4-6 week long ester cycle.

exactly. ten weeks test e should be run. if u want to do a shorter time frame, switch the test from e to prop.

[UnrealMachine]

even with a frontload i would see 8 weeks as the absolute minimum if you don't want to waste your time.

[Dragon13]

Dont waste the test on a 6 week cycle. i (used to) frontload with a gram a week and i still dont really see much effects until week 3, felt it kick in faster but no real visual gains till the third week.

The whole point of long esters is to easily run a compound longer so the gains are more permenant. i dont think you will see many gains and certainly not enough to warrant wasting the test on such a short cycle. Yes u can use orals to endload while the esters clear, however you probably could get the same results by running an orals only cycle and just forget about the test.

What frontloading regiment are you looking at? cause i havent seen a lot of ppl ffrontload with over a gram a week, and i feel at least a gram and a half would be required to really start getting visual effects from test E quickly.

Thanks you slacker86 for your input, this is exactly the type of advice I was looking for.

I was looking to frontload 750 mg day 1, and then start 250 mg injections on day 4, going every Sunday and Wednesday. It's weird, because calculating blood levels with the frontload, peak concentration isn't achieved until week 3 - which corroborates your experience - but the difference, to me, seemed negligible (only 7% lower by mid-week 1 and 3% by week 2).

Anyway, thanks again for your input.

[Dragon13]

Do you understand what it is? It's not magic. With frontloading heavily (which will increase sides, and bad idea for first test run) maybe an 8 week cycle is worthwhile. The exercise in futility is trying to do a 4-6 week long ester cycle.

This is somewhat of a more helpful post, rather than the standard bro-response of "10 week minimum".

So you are (obviously) against the idea, because of sides and ___? More input would be appreciated.

[Dragon13]

Don't get your panties in a bunch. You come on with a rather stupid question, talking as if your friend has a "situation" so we have to make assumptions to follow your train of thought. If you want a straight answer, stop with the childish bull**** and just get to the point. What you proposed was stupid and shows zero knowledge of AAS. Regardless if you have a warehouse of full Test E tempting you or just one vial, listen to what everyone is saying and if you want straight answers, give some straight questions. Your proposed cycle sucks. If you don't know why, or why not, you shouldn't be using AAS.

So apparently you didn't like my tounge-in-cheek hypothetical. Fine. But nowhere were you required to make any assumptions - you did that all on your own. And "zero knowledge of AAS" - LOL. OK.

Here's an idea: since you think the proposed cycle sucks, tell me why. That's why I made the thread in the first place. Too many sides with the frontload? Gains would be too weak to be worth it? Gains wouldn't be keepable?

Look, here's my rationale, critique as you see fit: frontload should get blood levels to almost peak concentration immediately. That means gains should be able to be had almost immediately. 5-6 weeks on test, add oral last week and stay on orals as long ester clears. Will probably wait a full 2 weeks to let it clear and stay on the orals, although that is longer than necessary. So total cycle = 7-8 weeks on, with 1 overlap week of test + orals.

So again, if this plan sucks (and it may), tell me why. You're the expert, after all.

[EasyEJL]

This is somewhat of a more helpful post, rather than the standard bro-response of "10 week minimum".

So you are (obviously) against the idea, because of sides and ___? More input would be appreciated.

Any cycle (really all of life) is a risks vs rewards calculation. Sadly, the risk of sides aren't that much lower in a short cycle as testosterone's main side is high estrogen levels + gyno going along with it. The other side effects that are common and risky are higher red blood cell count (which only happens after a long time on) and heightened blood pressure. By frontloading at all, you increase the risk of heightened estrogen and blood pressure, plus you also decrease hormone stability, making a more rapid change. So the flip side is that on a 4 week test E cycle, even if you frontloaded as 750mg day one, 250 each day 2,3,4 and then your normal injections after I couldn't imagine you seeing more than 4-5 pounds of real gains. The guys who gain 20-25lbs on their first 10 week test cycle leave out the fact that most of them drop 5lbs immediately post cycle due to losing excess water rention, and then realize their bodyfat went up on cycle too which accounts for 5-10lbs of their gains, so they are really left with roughly 1lb a week of actual lean tissue from the cycle.

So the reward is minimal, while with aggressive front loading you really maximize risks as well.... You'd be better off running a solo oral cycle now than bothering with the test if you have to do a cycle now. Either that or (although I really really don't recommend it for a first timer) look for the ALRI building the perfect beast protocol. Off the top of my head (don't have the charts handy) at your weight you'd be dosing 200mg of test - e a day for 12 days.... then switching to deca for the same dose for 12 days, then PCT. You'd be runnning a serm while on the cycle, and also need prolactin protection. Not a first cycle, but its the only way I've seen effective results from short cycles. Easily that can put on 10lbs, but risks of sides is fairly astronomical.

[Dragon13]

Any cycle (really all of life) is a risks vs rewards calculation. Sadly, the risk of sides aren't that much lower in a short cycle as testosterone's main side is high estrogen levels + gyno going along with it. The other side effects that are common and risky are higher red blood cell count (which only happens after a long time on) and heightened blood pressure. By frontloading at all, you increase the risk of heightened estrogen and blood pressure, plus you also decrease hormone stability, making a more rapid change. So the flip side is that on a 4 week test E cycle, even if you frontloaded as 750mg day one, 250 each day 2,3,4 and then your normal injections after I couldn't imagine you seeing more than 4-5 pounds of real gains. The guys who gain 20-25lbs on their first 10 week test cycle leave out the fact that most of them drop 5lbs immediately post cycle due to losing excess water rention, and then realize their bodyfat went up on cycle too which accounts for 5-10lbs of their gains, so they are really left with roughly 1lb a week of actual lean tissue from the cycle.

So the reward is minimal, while with aggressive front loading you really maximize risks as well.... You'd be better off running a solo oral cycle now than bothering with the test if you have to do a cycle now. Either that or (although I really really don't recommend it for a first timer) look for the ALRI building the perfect beast protocol. Off the top of my head (don't have the charts handy) at your weight you'd be dosing 200mg of test - e a day for 12 days.... then switching to deca for the same dose for 12 days, then PCT. You'd be runnning a serm while on the cycle, and also need prolactin protection. Not a first cycle, but its the only way I've seen effective results from short cycles. Easily that can put on 10lbs, but risks of sides is fairly astronomical.

Those are all fair points, thank you Easy. Sides vs gains is of course an important consideration. That being said, I'd be pretty damn happy with a lb a week of real muscle gain for such a short time frame. 7-8 lbs of muscle is nothing to sneeze at IMO. Also, the plan is to run an AI throughout and low-dose SERM first two weeks (a la Seth Roberts) to help with E sides.

Anyway, thanks for the helpful post.

EDIT - by the way, I just ran the protocol you mentioned through roidcalc, and holy ****, that is a hormonal roller coaster. I'll pass.

[EasyEJL]

Definitely not for the faint of heart, or a first cycle, but if you really needed to add 10lbs fast, thats the only way i've ever seen someone gain 10lbs of lean muscle in that short a time High risk though, so sort of pointless. Its never a sprint, its always a marathon. And even as far as competing goes, I can't imagine anyone being just 6 or 8 weeks out and suddenly realizing they need to add 10lbs of lean mass in time for the contest. Thats unlike how frequently someone at 6 or 8 weeks out realizes they have an extra 10lbs of fat they need to loose, which happens pretty often

[timmmah]

This is somewhat of a more helpful post, rather than the standard bro-response of "10 week minimum".

Bro response of ten week minimum?

By "Bro Response" do you mean consensus?