Mdrol + Test E Cycle overview

[GLHF]

Mdrol 1-4
10 for first 3days, bump up to 20 after. stay on for 4 weeks at 20mg/day

Test E 1-12
1g/week (yes u read it correct)

Supports Supplements: Milk thistle, hawthorne berry, fish oil, animal packs for joint support.

Supplements throughout:
Creatine, Multi, fish oil, milk thistle

PCT
Nolva 40mg/day for 4weeks
Clomid 150mg/day 150/100/50/50mg/day for 4 weeks
* i might extend if i think i need it

Diet:
totals: ~300g protein, 6-700g carbs, <50g fat (yes u read the carbs correct)
reason for carbs= high carb diets work for me, i gain weight and not fat. By carbs i mean pasta, bread, rice and so on NOT 10 donuts.

Routine
Monday- DC Chest/triceps/shoulder
Tuesday- DC Back/biceps/traps
wed- off
thursday- DC Legs
friday- Upper Power
saturday- lower power

this is while on mdrol, after that Ill have weird workouts. Ill be mixing a lot of power training with DC stuff in the morning + sprints + drills + practice + more of the listed

ive done hdrol, test + dbol, test + clen/t3 before. some ppl were telling me to bridge 2 burst cycles, as followed
1-3 mdrol 20/20/30(or 20)
1-12 test 1g/week
10-12 mdrol 20/20/30(or 20)
14-20 PCT

opinions on that last part especially. thank you!

 

[UnrealMachine]

Well I think it looks pretty awesome. To me the protein to carb ratio looks crazy but if that's what works for you then cool. You could run Mdrol again at the tail of the cycle... i figure that'd be boring though and it'll be hard to keep the gains, maybe something else, a more classic "finisher"? Mdrol is best suited for the start, a rapid increase in strength and mass... You are using combinations i like, 20mg of SD and then high doses of test, good stuff.

also 14-20 pct looks kinda crazy. I like your overkill PCT though, love high doses of clomid. Nolva might be excessive but i'm guessing you have the experience to have put it at 40 for a reason.

So what are your stats, what are you going for with this cycle?

 

[GLHF]

Well I think it looks pretty awesome. To me the protein to carb ratio looks crazy but if that's what works for you then cool. You could run Mdrol again at the tail of the cycle... i figure that'd be boring though and it'll be hard to keep the gains, maybe something else, a more classic "finisher"? Mdrol is best suited for the start, a rapid increase in strength and mass... You are using combinations i like, 20mg of SD and then high doses of test, good stuff.

also 14-20 pct looks kinda crazy. I like your overkill PCT though, love high doses of clomid. Nolva might be excessive but i'm guessing you have the experience to have put it at 40 for a reason.

So what are your stats, what are you going for with this cycle?

I love carbs. they either make me or brake me. when i cut=no carbs, when i bulk= sh*t load of them. I got CEL hdrol on hand, but when i ran it it took me like 4weeks to really feel it. Idk what my "finisher" should be.
id rather be on the safe side with PCT, i get nolva and clomid pretty cheap so i might as well. And clomid turns me into a sensitive little girl lol.

stats current 5-10, 215ish chillin at 16%. Im going for both mass and strength, with a little focus more on mass. never ran sdrol before so i hope i blow the f up just like i did from dbol, those pinkies were truly amazing lol.

 

[UnrealMachine]

you would enjoy the size gains much more from a lower bodyfat where they would be visible

 

[texastweeter]

finish with either winney or epi. yes that looks great. I too respond to high carbs. Pct is a lil overkill, bet better over than under. log it

 

[bLacKjAck.]

I'll offer some input...

I think your training way too much and your frequency is way too high with not enough rest. If you are training DC correctly, VERY few can do more than 3 days per week and not overtrain. The common misconception is that you can train as much as possible on gear and you won't overtrain which is so incredibly false.

With the routine you have outlined you are getting one rest day per week and that's not going to cut it for anyone. The training advice on this board that you are going to get is for the most part ignorant save a few, and most will think what I am saying is not the case, but I can assure you that you will get TONS more bang for your buck if you give yourself at least 2 more rest days, especially training with the DC philosophy. Dante goes so far as to say IF your going to train 4x per week that only needs to be a blast for 4 weeks and then you need to drop down to less frequency and more of a deload for 4 weeks following.

Anyways, do what you will, but I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that your gains will be much more taking my advice.

Good luck

EDIT!: as far as the cycle goes and your diet everything looks very nice and I like your outline.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Some people can handle lots of training with minimal recovery though. Myself, i never understood this "CNS" stress bit, the only reason I don't lift everyday is because of my joints. Some of my best gains were on my first SD cycle, when I had superhuman recovery, i trained without a routine, everyday I'd just go in and hit whatever wasn't sore. I didn't lift 7 days a week but maybe 5-6. Anyway the high training frequency works for some people.

I've also never felt "overtrained." I've taken 1 week off lifting in the last 3 years, and that week off was extremely counter-productive, i'll try not to do it again...

I would consider lifting 6x a week again if i was on cycle, just not for too long, cuz of the joints.

 

[juice3320]

Some people can handle lots of training with minimal recovery though. Myself, i never understood this "CNS" stress bit, the only reason I don't lift everyday is because of my joints. Some of my best gains were on my first SD cycle, when I had superhuman recovery, i trained without a routine, everyday I'd just go in and hit whatever wasn't sore. I didn't lift 7 days a week but maybe 5-6. Anyway the high training frequency works for some people.

I've also never felt "overtrained." I've taken 1 week off lifting in the last 3 years, and that week off was extremely counter-productive, i'll try not to do it again...

I would consider lifting 6x a week again if i was on cycle, just not for too long, cuz of the joints.

Unreal you must have a CNS of steel bro! Personally I have horrible CNS problems if I train super intensely (like always) for over about 12-13 weeks without a week off (except before a competition doing a cyclic keto diet and a sh** ton of cardio for 15 weeks). It even gets to the point sometimes where you pick up the weight and are about to start a set and you get a headache so unbearable that you can't stand to do any reps. You also get moody and hate the gym (that is the worst feeling). But that is how you know you are truly overtrained and it is time for a CNS recovery.

If your body can handle it and you know that you respond well to this type of training I'm with Unreal on this one. Just make sure you are recovering like you should and cut back if you aren't. Just listen to your body bro . Personally I'm going to go for 5x per week GVT style on cycle. With two days "off" (maybe do some light walking and definitely do stretching). Goodluck man! And cycle looks great. 1g test is going to be killer!

 

[texastweeter]

I think that anytime your over 230ish lbs anything under 1g of test is not enough. General rule of thumb of course. Me Branch and D were talking the other day about this (both of wich are WELL over the 230lb mark) and they agree.

 

[neverstop]

fyi, I've found that if i'm on >300mg of deca with some test I can damn near train 6-7 days a week if my diet is right. This would be the dream cycle if you added 300mg of deca for the first 9 weeks.

cycle looks good man, test E will take forever to clear your system so if it were me i'd use some oral like maybe pheraplex? epi takes awhile to kick in and I've found Hdrol to be worthless unless you are happy with nothing more than harder muscles and some kidney pain.
but running some fast acting oral for the last 3 weeks while the test is clearing your system would be a great way to keep your body anabolic while the test tapers down, you will find you have quite a bit of catabolism going on while your body fights the hugely anabolic environment you've created. I also wouldn't run a cycle that long without HCG but that is just me and i'd probably taper the Nolva down a bit to 20mg

I'll second unreal and say that I think you'd enjoy the cycle more if you cut down but i'm not sure if you're in some sport or not where you want more mass (football, etc)

 

[neverstop]

I think that anytime your over 230ish lbs anything under 1g of test is not enough. General rule of thumb of course. Me Branch and D were talking the other day about this (both of wich are WELL over the 230lb mark) and they agree.

I agree but keep in mind this guy is 16% bf, so hist muscle mass is not that much different from some other leaner guys at 210lbs. 1000mg of test is ALOT.

 

[lennoxchi]

I think that anytime your over 230ish lbs anything under 1g of test is not enough. General rule of thumb of course. Me Branch and D were talking the other day about this (both of wich are WELL over the 230lb mark) and they agree.

branch and D?

 

[bLacKjAck.]

I agree but keep in mind this guy is 16% bf, so hist muscle mass is not that much different from some other leaner guys at 210lbs. 1000mg of test is ALOT.

Yeh, it is a lot. More than necessary too. I am 240~ and around or a bit under 10% bodyfat and I can grow plenty of muscle with only 500 - 700mg test. And just as fast as someone running a gram or more.

The errant advice in this section is ridiculous. Got guys that are 180lbs telling you that you need a few grams a week of gear to build muscle...:thumbsdown:

 

[texastweeter]

I'm also 5 foot 7 inches, not 6 foot 2 inches, and your off by about 15lbs bro. Lenn, I was referring to Branch Warren and one of my training partners.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

I'm also 5 foot 7 inches, not 6 foot 2 inches, and your off by about 15lbs bro. Lenn, I was referring to Branch Warren and one of my training partners.

I don't care how short you are, or who your "training partner" is - The fact that if you reach 230lbs and you need 1g of test or more to grow is complete and utter bullsh*t. I know TONS of natural guys that don't need a gram of anything and keep growing well past 230 and lean. I am a bit over 240 right now and I am growing just fine without a gram of test. Say w/e the hell you want, but your wrong.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Weight is meaningless without a height

Texastweeter you just need to specify a height, because there's a huge difference between 5'7 230 and 6'2 230.

At my height 230 doesn't mean much, i'm about there, and lean. 5'7 and 230 lean is ridiculous tho

 

[texastweeter]

Unreal, you are making the point I was trying to make with my second statement. branch is 5'7 265 lbs and D is 6'5 330ish. both of wich require at least a g of test to make the gains necissary to stay competative. I am 5'7 195ish and can grow well on 500-750mg myself. Maybe I should specify a BMI in conjunction with a bf% to go with my statements about GENERAL test dosage. As I always say, your mileage may vary. Black I am sorry if for some reason you take offense to what I said, but I think that you are misunderstanding my comment. maybe I worded it incorrectly. But if you are just saying that there is no correlation between muscle development/size and the amount of aas needed to continually make gains, I think that I'll take the IFBB pros word over yours.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

Unreal, you are making the point I was trying to make with my second statement. branch is 5'7 265 lbs and D is 6'5 330ish. both of wich require at least a g of test to make the gains necissary to stay competative. I am 5'7 195ish and can grow well on 500-750mg myself. Maybe I should specify a BMI in conjunction with a bf% to go with my statements about GENERAL test dosage. As I always say, your mileage may vary. Black I am sorry if for some reason you take offense to what I said, but I think that you are misunderstanding my comment. maybe I worded it incorrectly. But if you are just saying that there is no correlation between muscle development/size and the amount of aas needed to continually make gains, I think that I'll take the IFBB pros word over yours.

I don't take offense to anything you said, just making the comments you make are why so many idiots on this board feel like they need so much gear to make any reasonable gains. So throwing around those kind of statements just isn't smart when your on a public board. If your an IFBB pro and your 260+ lbs at 5'8'' yeh you will need a gram of test or more to look even more ridiculous than they already do - not to mention the other 10mls of gear flowing through their bodies every week.

But if you look at what you said, 230=1g or more basically - its asinine. There are many natural pros that need nothing to grow past 230lbs, ones under 6ft. There is no "need" for gear, you can choose to use it and thats great it's your decision, but noone "needs" it to reach any goal they have unless your the .0000001% of bodybuilders who will actually get your pro card. You made a broad stroke that just isn't true and the reason it pisses me off is because there is WAY too much of that going around this board. I have taken time off the boards recently and what I have come back to find is just ridiculous.

 

[texastweeter]

Quantify many natural pros under 6 foot that are 230lbs. and Im a lil unclear on the reaction to the orignal op. it seems that you dont realize that we agree that this guy doesnt need a g of test. at 5'10 I think that untill he hits the 230lb area he shouldn't consider a g...kinda like i mentioned above.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Everybody is different, so **** the conventions, i'm going over 1g, lol...

WORST CASE SCENARIO - i need to dose my AI higher, big deal.

Anyway it's like i said everyone is different, i was disappointed on 700mg ew (i hope it was underdosed but the evidence points against that). I've seen other people do 500-600 on their first inject cycle and also be disappointed (granted some of these people expected too much but SOME of them are like me, and just seem to need more).
Other people don't need 500, they say 400 is plenty... Reactions vary so widely...

For instance the test prop i used, took about a week for me to feel anything, my buddy injected it and noticed the increased test the next day. My buddy happens to react pretty strongly to every anabolic he tries, and I happen to need high doses of most anabolics, and i don't respond very strongly at all to some.

Anyway... Blackjack, Texastweeter, my point i'm trying to get at is that is that there are no absolutes, so it's no like you need X amount or you don't need X amount, everybody needs different amounts and everybody will still gain at different rates

 

[bLacKjAck.]

Everybody is different, so **** the conventions, i'm going over 1g, lol...

WORST CASE SCENARIO - i need to dose my AI higher, big deal.

Anyway it's like i said everyone is different, i was disappointed on 700mg ew (i hope it was underdosed but the evidence points against that). I've seen other people do 500-600 on their first inject cycle and also be disappointed (granted some of these people expected too much but SOME of them are like me, and just seem to need more).
Other people don't need 500, they say 400 is plenty... Reactions vary so widely...

For instance the test prop i used, took about a week for me to feel anything, my buddy injected it and noticed the increased test the next day. My buddy happens to react pretty strongly to every anabolic he tries, and I happen to need high doses of most anabolics, and i don't respond very strongly at all to some.

Anyway... Blackjack, Texastweeter, my point i'm trying to get at is that is that there are no absolutes, so it's no like you need X amount or you don't need X amount, everybody needs different amounts and everybody will still gain at different rates

Agreed, my whole point was that there is no rule that once your past a certain weight you NEED a certain amount, thats complete crap and everyone knows it. No need for statements like that. Can you? Yeh sure, lots do and gain great amounts. I just believe if your training and diet are what they need to be that you can get by with a lot less than most are running.

As a general rule, and I understand there are exceptions - MAYBE even on this board. When one gets up there in dosage there is a reliance and a mindset that changes to where you feel like you can't gain muscle unless your on gear, and on a lot. The focus should always be on training and diet and then throw in a little gear every now and then that's fine. This mindset is rare among most aas users and its sad. Comments like if you reach 230lbs you must go over a gram don't help things at all. How about increase calories?

 

[texastweeter]

So i think that the one thing that we all agree on is "Your mileage may vary." cheers!

 

[GLHF]

Yeh, it is a lot. More than necessary too. I am 240~ and around or a bit under 10% bodyfat and I can grow plenty of muscle with only 500 - 700mg test. And just as fast as someone running a gram or more.

The errant advice in this section is ridiculous. Got guys that are 180lbs telling you that you need a few grams a week of gear to build muscle...:thumbsdown:

ur 6'2 and 240, im 5-10 and 225 atm. something tells me im "bigger" then u are. I never said i cant make gains off of 500mg/week but thats like wasting my time. A g a week isnt that much.... Also im not that "sensitive" to test. I dont blow the f up from 500mg/week, i barely feel it.

Unreal
The reason im not at a lower bf is simple. My sport. I DO have 17% ish bf, but thats still some what leanish. I can still move, jump and run (probably even faster). I throw shot/disc/jav and train with longer jumpers/sprinters and hurdlers. I need the extra weight on me but at the same time i cnt have too much extra. If u add weight on, ur form goes off VERY fast. Its like bbing, u cant just add inches to ur biceps and not everything else, u wont look symmetrical.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/139009-test-mdrol-log.html#post2191872
^my log

 

[bLacKjAck.]

ur 6'2 and 240, im 5-10 and 225 atm. something tells me im "bigger" then u are. I never said i cant make gains off of 500mg/week but thats like wasting my time. A g a week isnt that much.... Also im not that "sensitive" to test. I dont blow the f up from 500mg/week, i barely feel it.

Unreal
The reason im not at a lower bf is simple. My sport. I DO have 17% ish bf, but thats still some what leanish. I can still move, jump and run (probably even faster). I throw shot/disc/jav and train with longer jumpers/sprinters and hurdlers. I need the extra weight on me but at the same time i cnt have too much extra. If u add weight on, ur form goes off VERY fast. Its like bbing, u cant just add inches to ur biceps and not everything else, u wont look symmetrical.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/139009-test-mdrol-log.html#post2191872
^my log

You are bigger than me, a lot fatter - if thats what you want, more power to ya bud. If you were to get around 9% bodyfat down from 17-20 you would be well under 200 lbs. If thats what your goal is man - great. I still think you using a gram a week of test is stupid and un-necessary. But that is just how I am and have always been - others are different. I would rather not use more if theres no need, I'll make up for my lack of extra juice with harder training and perfect nutrition/rest - those things can't be injected through a syringe.

If you train with sprinters/long-jumpers/hurdlers and they are real ones I can promise you that you are the fattest one out there. I used to sprint and long-jump in highschool and the first couple years of college D-1 before I started wrestling full-time, and I can promise you no one carried bodyfat out there.

Your going to do what you want to do, doesn't matter what people say. You post because you want opinions and I gave mine.

EDIT: "Pizza, Whey, Milk, Eggs, Red Meat, chicken, fish watever just food" <---- taken directly out of your log. This may be why you cant lose any bodyfat

 

[texastweeter]

I do agree you might want to clean up your diet. Your lipids arnt gonna be to great even with a spot on diet when your pinning a g a week.

 

[GLHF]

You are bigger than me, a lot fatter - if thats what you want, more power to ya bud. If you were to get around 9% bodyfat down from 17-20 you would be well under 200 lbs. If thats what your goal is man - great. I still think you using a gram a week of test is stupid and un-necessary. But that is just how I am and have always been - others are different. I would rather not use more if theres no need, I'll make up for my lack of extra juice with harder training and perfect nutrition/rest - those things can't be injected through a syringe.

If you train with sprinters/long-jumpers/hurdlers and they are real ones I can promise you that you are the fattest one out there. I used to sprint and long-jump in highschool and the first couple years of college D-1 before I started wrestling full-time, and I can promise you no one carried bodyfat out there.

Your going to do what you want to do, doesn't matter what people say. You post because you want opinions and I gave mine.

EDIT: "Pizza, Whey, Milk, Eggs, Red Meat, chicken, fish watever just food" <---- taken directly out of your log. This may be why you cant lose any bodyfat

i already stated that i DO NOT FEEL 500mg/week, just mayb a little extra pump and drive to hit the gym.

I know im the fattest one when i train with sprinters, TRAIN. I do not compete in meets, throwers are great athletes and go on youtube, a top nations thrower would b very close behind a top nations sprinter in a race.

About my diet... this has been my diet for the past 1 month:
7:00 1/2 Serious Mass Shake + 1 Scoop Whey = 800 Calories
9:30 1/2 Serious Mass Shake + 1 Scoop Whey = 800 Calories
11:00 Chicken Sandwich
2:30 1 PB+J Sandwhich (pre workout) + BCAAs = 350 calories
4:30 1/2 Serious Mass Shake + 1 Scoop Whey = 800 Calories
6:30 1/2 Serious Mass Shake + 1 Scoop Whey = 800 Calories
8:30 1/2 pound meat + 1 cup rice = 700 calories
10:30 6 boiled eggs (whites only) + 3 table spoons PB = 450 calories

how is that a bad diet idk... y so many shakes? first off, their cheap. easy to make, fast to consume, and u dnt get bloated and u feel great.

 

[bigzach1234]

dude that is seriously a terrible diet... what are your goals eatting like that? you have only 1400 calories from real food... where are your healthy fats? your first meal should be the most important of the day next to your post workout meal.... yet your first 2 meals are some weight gainer bull****, with probably like 120 carbs per shake... and then all u eat is a chicken sandwich... i could care less what u do.. but it would be beneficial to let someone here help u with your diet.... seriously **** all those weight gains shakes.. u need real food.. and lots of healthy fats... throw in one of those shakes a day maybe.. and get yourself a good whey protein to take before and after your workouts...

 

[bLacKjAck.]

dude that is seriously a terrible diet... what are your goals eatting like that? you have only 1400 calories from real food... where are your healthy fats? your first meal should be the most important of the day next to your post workout meal.... yet your first 2 meals are some weight gainer bull****, with probably like 120 carbs per shake... and then all u eat is a chicken sandwich... i could care less what u do.. but it would be beneficial to let someone here help u with your diet.... seriously **** all those weight gains shakes.. u need real food.. and lots of healthy fats... throw in one of those shakes a day maybe.. and get yourself a good whey protein to take before and after your workouts...

A pretty good post ^

 

[Liftingstud]

A pretty good post ^

Agreed that diet is awefull!!! Anyone who relies on shakes instead of whole food has no idea what ur doing. Shakes are great when ur in a pinch or want to add in a few extra calories. Try eating 5 whole meals a day with 2 shakes thrown in to make 7 meals. Pizza and other cheat meals are fine esp if ur a true hard gainer like myself. Those extra cals are a blessing! But that only happens one or 2 meals a wk. Rest if the time it diet diet.

As for taking tons of test... Everyone response to chemicals are different. You can't sat because you weigh X you need to take this much. You want to use the most effective dosage that will lead to the least amount if side effects. There is always a point of diminishing returns.