Why is it that Anavar burns belly fat? - AnabolicMinds.com

Why is it that Anavar burns belly fat?

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    Why is it that Anavar burns belly fat?


    It just DOES.

    For any of you that have run it, it DOES without a doubt.

    What attribute and/or property of anavar does this? No other gear has such a profound impact on specifically, abdominal fat!

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    MAnnnnnnnn I love when you (or Strategic) get ahold of my posts!!

    Haha thanks
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    "Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained." NICE!!!

    "Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat." NICE!!


    Thanks again BigB but.............WHY is Anavar so potent at this? Through WHAT mechanisms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    "Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained." NICE!!!

    "Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat." NICE!!


    Thanks again BigB but.............WHY is Anavar so potent at this? Through WHAT mechanisms?
    anti-glucocorticoid
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    anti-glucocorticoid
    what dose do u think its most effective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    what dose do u think its most effective?
    I have seen fat-burning in the lit with only 20 mg a day. Everyone thinks you need 40-60 or even more but the effects of Anavar are hard to see because it is pretty much all lean mass i.e. no water and the gain in muscle is obcured by the loss in fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    anti-glucocorticoid
    Thanks Seth.

    What else(supps/drugs) have this "anti-glucocorticoid" effect as I'd like to run something non-hepatotoxic and for longer periods of time to mimic this effect oxandralone seems to have. The typical run of the mill over-hyped anti-cort supps out there these days have not made a discernable difference for me.
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    "Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk."

    "A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12."

    "Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]."

    Two points:

    1. This study supports Seths point on the 20mg - which suggests more is not necessarily required for fat loss.

    2. Doses of 20mg were administered for 12 weeks - suggest that a lower dose can be used for greater periods of time.

    3. If the sole purpose is androgen induced fat loss then this may be a viable method.

    4. If your goal is to gain LBM then low dose may not be the means to succeed but rather an other androgen in conjunction.

    5. Insulin sensitivity is improved.

    6. Those with lower testosterone faired better than those with higher levels - support the idea of running it with low dose test as opposed to higher doses.

    Speculation - higher dosed test usually equates to higher estrogen levels - supporting the premis that lower estrogen levels combined with the increased insulin sensitivity and anti-glucocorticoid may be the mechanism or synergy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Thanks Seth.

    What else(supps/drugs) have this "anti-glucocorticoid" effect as I'd like to run something non-hepatotoxic and for longer periods of time to mimic this effect oxandralone seems to have. The typical run of the mill over-hyped anti-cort supps out there these days have not made a discernable difference for me.
    Based on my observation posted above I would consider an AI, improved insulin sensitivity (P-Slin/AP, etc) and an anti-glucocortoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    anti-glucocortoid.
    hmm interesting, DHEA, progesterone, RU486 stand out, anything less troublesome you can think of?
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    I am learning as well. Seth mentioned anti-glucocorticoid (I mis-spelled it) and am researching this as well.
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    Wealth of info here. Thanks
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    Interesting read. Trying to think what kind of shutdown in test one might experience if one was to use 20mg for 12 weeks. Always been interested in this compound.
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    I would think that instead of the lower estrogen theory, in reality the guys with low endogenous test had better results because it was a greater percentage of improvement above baseline androgen levels.
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    That was a thought also. Usually men of the age of the ones in that study have reduced testosterone and elevated estrogen. So if that is the case it sends my theory out the window.
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    I know ths flies in the face of brotelligence, but estrogen has been shown to decrease adiposity. Most steroids seem to have som antiglucocorticoid effect but there seems to be some difference in how some steroids accomplish this antiglucocorticoid effect. Obviously some reduce cortisol production through inhibition of 11-beta hydroxylase, others act as glucocorticoid receptor antagonists while some is through androgenic competition for HRE sites on DNA. All of these mechanisms are not equivalent in there effects.

    Another mechanism for anavar's fat burning is the reduction in TBG and increase in TBPA. Several steroids have this effect and it results in greater T3 uptake. Some other AAS do this as well but the low water retention and antiglucocorticoid effect of anavar make the fat loss more readily apparent. For example, oxymetholone has pretty strong effects on TBG and it also causes decreases in adiposity:

    1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;284(1):E120-8. Epub 2002 Sep 24. Links
    Effects of an oral androgen on muscle and metabolism in older, community-dwelling men.Schroeder ET, Singh A, Bhasin S, Storer TW, Azen C, Davidson T, Martinez C, Sinha-Hikim I, Jaque SV, Terk M, Sattler FR.
    Department of Medicine, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.

    To determine whether oxymetholone increases lean body mass (LBM) and skeletal muscle strength in older persons, 31 men 65-80 yr of age were randomized to placebo (group 1) or 50 mg (group 2) or 100 mg (group 3) daily for 12 wk. For the three groups, total LBM increased by 0.0 +/- 0.6, 3.3 +/- 1.2 (P < 0.001), and 4.2 +/- 2.4 kg (P < 0.001), respectively. Trunk fat decreased by 0.2 +/- 0.4, 1.7 +/- 1.0 (P = 0.018), and 2.2 +/- 0.9 kg (P = 0.005) in groups 1, 2, and 3, respectively. Relative increases in 1-repetition maximum (1-RM) strength for biaxial chest press of 8.2 +/- 9.2 and 13.9 +/- 8.1% in the two active treatment groups were significantly different from the change (-0.8 +/- 4.3%) for the placebo group (P < 0.03). For lat pull-down, 1-RM changed by -0.6 +/- 8.3, 8.8 +/- 15.1, and 18.4 +/- 21.0% for the groups, respectively (1-way ANOVA, P = 0.019). The pattern of changes among the groups for LBM and upper-body strength suggested that changes might be related to dose. Alanine aminotransferase increased by 72 +/- 67 U/l in group 3 (P < 0.001), and HDL-cholesterol decreased by -19 +/- 9 and -23 +/- 18 mg/dl in groups 2 and 3, respectively (P = 0.04 and P = 0.008). Thus oxymetholone improved LBM and maximal voluntary muscle strength and decreased fat mass in older men.
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    Thyroid, good call Seth - yet another interesting addition to the possible mechanisms associated with fat loss when using ox/var. For me, Thyroid supplemention never did a darn thing as far as fat loss goes but my body is stubborn, almost resistant, to many things I intorduce. So, logicaly, it could be via Thyroid as well, but for me, I doubt that is the "magic" pathway involved for oxandrolone's profound fat loss effects.

    I imagine most gear possess many of these attributes (swinging the estrogen,cortisol, and thyroid pendulums infavor of fat loss) but I still think there has to be one specific thing ox/var does that simply trumps the others, especially given the fact it is a relatively"weak" androgens so the argument cannot be made it's simply stronger, therefore more potent.

    I wonder if oxandrolone also significantly impacts the PPAR pathways in that we know those can be potent fat loss drivers as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    Thyroid, good call Seth - yet another interesting addition to the possible mechanisms associated with fat loss when using ox/var. For me, Thyroid supplemention never did a darn thing as far as fat loss goes but my body is stubborn, almost resistant, to many things I intorduce. So, logicaly, it could be via Thyroid as well, but for me, I doubt that is the "magic" pathway involved for oxandrolone's profound fat loss effects.

    I imagine most gear possess many of these attributes (swinging the estrogen,cortisol, and thyroid pendulums infavor of fat loss) but I still think there has to be one specific thing ox/var does that simply trumps the others, especially given the fact it is a relatively"weak" androgens so the argument cannot be made it's simply stronger, therefore more potent.

    I wonder if oxandrolone also significantly impacts the PPAR pathways in that we know those can be potent fat loss drivers as well.
    There is a saying in science (and in medicine), "When you hear hoofprints, think horses, not zebras". That is, don't come up with exotic, rare explanations for things that can be explained simply. That doesn't mean that oxandrolone isn't do something else. It may be. These drugs are very poorly understood -- even 40 years after they were introduced. That being said, the fat burning properties of anavar can probably be explained through a combination of antiglucocorticoid and prothyroid effects.
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    i'm just dumbfounded as thats the first time i've seen evidence of anavar being effective at a dosage that is reasonably priced
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    i'm just dumbfounded as thats the first time i've seen evidence of anavar being effective at a dosage that is reasonably priced
    It used to be that a reasonable dose of anavar was 20 to 40 mg a day. In the past 10 years that has creeped up to 60 to 100 mg per day. Lower doses work well -- no, you won't get the immediate gratification but this is a marathon, not a sprint and people who want immediate results usually burn out quick.
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    Seth, thanks for all your input.
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    Its sort of like how 300mg-400mg of test was considered solid cycles (and 200 a beginners cycle) back in the 80s.

    I'd imagine that anavar's negative effect on lipids is much lower at 20mg as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Its sort of like how 300mg-400mg of test was considered solid cycles (and 200 a beginners cycle) back in the 80s.

    I'd imagine that anavar's negative effect on lipids is much lower at 20mg as well.
    Side effects do not tend to increase as dosage decreases
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    i'm just dumbfounded as thats the first time i've seen evidence of anavar being effective at a dosage that is reasonably priced
    We see higher dosages being used partially because of underdosed products. If you take supposedly 70 mgs worth of anavar tabs before you start seeing results, but you are actually only getting 35-40 mgs worth of var, when giving feedback you will say go with 70mgs. Especially on these high cost raws, it is unfortunately in the favor of producers to shortchange a little. Even on some of the lower priced ones, greed will often win out.
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    So are there OTC alternatives for Anavar/Oxandrolone that work as well as the real thing?

    On a different lineup, I saw an AI mentioned as well as AnabolicPump and P-Slin... would Formestane, P-Slin, and yellow gold have a similar effect? Would 1-carboxy interfere with this? I guess I better get reading
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    by golly, heres another study, possibly even more interesting

    2008: Vega Gloria Lena; Clarenbach Jacob J; Dunn Fredrick; Grundy Scott M
    Oxandrolone enhances hepatic ketogenesis in adult men.
    Journal of investigative medicine : the official publication of the American Federation for Clinical Research 2008;56(7):920-4.
    BACKGROUND: Immediate administration of oxandrolone markedly increases hepatic lipase activity and reduces levels of plasma high-density lipoprotein. RATIONALE FOR THE STUDY: We postulated that oxandrolone should increase hepatic lipase and that the nonesterified fatty acids generated would enhance hepatic ketogenesis during an extended fat tolerance test. MAIN RESULTS: Eighteen men participated in the study using short-term administration of oxandrolone (10 mg/d) over a week. Subjects had evaluation of hepatic ketogenesis at baseline and after 7 days of administration of oxandrolone. Ketogenesis was assessed by measuring plasma levels of 3-hydroxybutyrate during a fat tolerance test. Oxandrolone increased fasting levels of 3-hydroxybutyrate by 70%, and increased the area under the curve during an FFT by 53% above pretreatment levels without affecting the areas under the curve for nonesterified fatty acids, glycerol, or triglycerides. Fasting 3-hydroxybutyrate levels correlated with nonesterified fatty acids and with triglycerides; however, there were no significant correlations with any other parameter. CONCLUSIONS: This study shows that short-term administration of oxandrolone results in marked increases in hepatic ketogenesis. This finding is consistent with an increased influx of fatty acids into the liver secondary to lipoprotein lipolysis by increased hepatic lipase. However, the possibility cannot be ruled out that oxandrolone acts directly in the liver to stimulate fatty acid oxidation. Therefore, the observation of increased ketogenesis will require further studies to determine the molecular basis of the response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal View Post
    I would think that instead of the lower estrogen theory, in reality the guys with low endogenous test had better results because it was a greater percentage of improvement above baseline androgen levels.
    This is what i got out of it too. The most hypogonadal men benefited the most because they started out with the lowest amount of androgens in their system. (aka overcoming fat/weak syndrom ) Has anyone here observed differences in fat loss when running it solo or stacked with test?

    That last study had some huge results Seth. Did everyone catch the oxymetholone in there? It seemed like another anavar studay at first. I cant believe doctors put a bunch of senior citizens on a 12 week 100mg/day cycle of A-bombs... Was anyone actually surprised their strength/weight went up so much? I havnt even seen any of the bbers here do an abuser oral cycle like that. Its probably one of those chinese studies.

    I've never run anadrol, but is it safe to say the sides are a little overstated?
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    i've talked to guys who did 150/day. basically 100 a day isn't "crazy" as they are 50mg tabs/caps. so its 2 caps, its not too easy to go from 50 to anything else. i imagine from what i've heard that it helps with fatloss largely because you feel too crappy to eat
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    There are smaller dosed (10mg) tablets on the market.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    i've talked to guys who did 150/day. basically 100 a day isn't "crazy" as they are 50mg tabs/caps. so its 2 caps, its not too easy to go from 50 to anything else. i imagine from what i've heard that it helps with fatloss largely because you feel too crappy to eat
    Haha if i can lose fat, gain weight and put 40 pounds on my bench when i'm 85 i guess i'll chalk it up as a win.

    I've never seen the 10mg ones anywhere so far.

    Most of those guys using 150mg are at least young, big and using for under 6 weeks. It seems a little different when you juice up a bunch of old guys with one of the strongest steroids known, for that long... Sorry for the tangent.

    In your experience how did the var effect your appetite?
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    I wish I could find some damn var in powder form..
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    Look around. Its out there. Its the only way i could even conceive running a decent cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    Look around. Its out there. Its the only way i could even conceive running a decent cycle.
    Oh Im looking. Late into the night, clickin links and just waking up at my computer face on the keyboard like .
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    There are smaller dosed (10mg) tablets on the market.
    for anadrol? would be nice I guess, at least then you have some control still don't think i'd ever run it, its like dbol on crack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    This is what i got out of it too. The most hypogonadal men benefited the most because they started out with the lowest amount of androgens in their system. (aka overcoming fat/weak syndrom ) Has anyone here observed differences in fat loss when running it solo or stacked with test?

    That last study had some huge results Seth. Did everyone catch the oxymetholone in there? It seemed like another anavar studay at first. I cant believe doctors put a bunch of senior citizens on a 12 week 100mg/day cycle of A-bombs... Was anyone actually surprised their strength/weight went up so much? I havnt even seen any of the bbers here do an abuser oral cycle like that. Its probably one of those chinese studies.

    I've never run anadrol, but is it safe to say the sides are a little overstated?
    Everybody is different. I was reading the MD forums and RazorRipped there said that 200mg of Abombs for 12 weeks was his standard cycle for a while. Remember that, apparently, it's prescribed up to 500mg/ed for wasting patients.

    Some people probably feel crappy at 100. IDK i've never felt too bad on cycle even 30mg of SD in week 4 no lost libido and no lethargy. Some people just need bigger doses. Maybe everyone's liver filters the compound to a different extent. Who knows. I've seen AAS vets who say that Dbol stacked with Drol is the ****.

    ^^ 10mg tabs of anadrol, that sounds pointless, you'd be eating those things all day
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    The 10mg pills wouldnt be pointless to stack on a bigger cycle or for a longer amount of time. There is a study on the diminishing returns of drol out there somewhere that i have seen. Basically 100mg is the point where there are major diminishing returns. Even in the study Seth posted the 50mg dose has a lot more than 50% of the results that 100mg had.

    Unreal i've heard the same thing about d-bol and drol stacked. Sounds like a recipe for gyno though if you're not carefull.
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    hmmm looks like anavatr is better than winstrol but mroe expensive??
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethroberts View Post
    It used to be that a reasonable dose of anavar was 20 to 40 mg a day. In the past 10 years that has creeped up to 60 to 100 mg per day. Lower doses work well -- no, you won't get the immediate gratification but this is a marathon, not a sprint and people who want immediate results usually burn out quick.
    I want to bump this post. I think there are way too many people out there recommending massive doses not only for var but for all AAS. I think these high dosages are due in part to misinformation. For instance, there is a var profile on $teroid(dot)com that says 20-80mg dosages are what is needed for burn related wasting...uhhh NO!!! There are MANY studies out there that use dosages as low as 2.5mg/ED for major burn victims. Additionally, the author states he would use 100mg/ED if he were to use var. What a LOAD of garbage advice. This along with addict AAS users recommending 60-100mg doses is very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs. And I would never recommend a dosage to someone assuming they have underdosed product, I think this is extremely dangerous.

    *steps down from soap box*

    Cope only used 25mg var on his last cycle, good results. I like low-dose, short cycles combining a few different chems. I find it easier to maintain gains on low-dose, 4-6 weeks cycles. Plus it's easier on the body, especially lipid profile AND the heart. Sorry for the rants guys, but having used 20mg and 25mg in my cycles, I would say that the most someone should use is 40mg. If you want more gains, run something along with your var. Var also makes your blood thick and coagulate, this I have verified.
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