Why is it that Anavar burns belly fat?
- 06-10-2009, 07:27 PM
- 06-10-2009, 07:33 PM
Within your darkest memories lies the answer if you dare to find it. Don't let hope become a memory. When you think all is forsaken, listen to me now; you need never feel broken again. Sometimes darkness can show you the light.
- 06-10-2009, 08:25 PM
06-10-2009, 08:30 PM
"Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained." NICE!!!
"Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat." NICE!!
Thanks again BigB but.............WHY is Anavar so potent at this? Through WHAT mechanisms?
06-10-2009, 10:21 PM
06-11-2009, 12:52 AM
06-11-2009, 07:17 AM
06-11-2009, 09:35 AM
What else(supps/drugs) have this "anti-glucocorticoid" effect as I'd like to run something non-hepatotoxic and for longer periods of time to mimic this effect oxandralone seems to have. The typical run of the mill over-hyped anti-cort supps out there these days have not made a discernable difference for me.
06-11-2009, 11:41 AM
"Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk."
"A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12."
"Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]."
1. This study supports Seths point on the 20mg - which suggests more is not necessarily required for fat loss.
2. Doses of 20mg were administered for 12 weeks - suggest that a lower dose can be used for greater periods of time.
3. If the sole purpose is androgen induced fat loss then this may be a viable method.
4. If your goal is to gain LBM then low dose may not be the means to succeed but rather an other androgen in conjunction.
5. Insulin sensitivity is improved.
6. Those with lower testosterone faired better than those with higher levels - support the idea of running it with low dose test as opposed to higher doses.
Speculation - higher dosed test usually equates to higher estrogen levels - supporting the premis that lower estrogen levels combined with the increased insulin sensitivity and anti-glucocorticoid may be the mechanism or synergy.
06-11-2009, 12:24 PM
06-11-2009, 12:29 PM
06-11-2009, 12:53 PM
I am learning as well. Seth mentioned anti-glucocorticoid (I mis-spelled it) and am researching this as well.
06-11-2009, 12:55 PM
06-11-2009, 05:49 PM
06-11-2009, 06:30 PM
Interesting read. Trying to think what kind of shutdown in test one might experience if one was to use 20mg for 12 weeks. Always been interested in this compound.
06-11-2009, 07:23 PM
I would think that instead of the lower estrogen theory, in reality the guys with low endogenous test had better results because it was a greater percentage of improvement above baseline androgen levels.
06-11-2009, 11:57 PM
That was a thought also. Usually men of the age of the ones in that study have reduced testosterone and elevated estrogen. So if that is the case it sends my theory out the window.
06-12-2009, 07:11 AM
I know ths flies in the face of brotelligence, but estrogen has been shown to decrease adiposity. Most steroids seem to have som antiglucocorticoid effect but there seems to be some difference in how some steroids accomplish this antiglucocorticoid effect. Obviously some reduce cortisol production through inhibition of 11-beta hydroxylase, others act as glucocorticoid receptor antagonists while some is through androgenic competition for HRE sites on DNA. All of these mechanisms are not equivalent in there effects.
Another mechanism for anavar's fat burning is the reduction in TBG and increase in TBPA. Several steroids have this effect and it results in greater T3 uptake. Some other AAS do this as well but the low water retention and antiglucocorticoid effect of anavar make the fat loss more readily apparent. For example, oxymetholone has pretty strong effects on TBG and it also causes decreases in adiposity:
1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;284(1):E120-8. Epub 2002 Sep 24. Links
Effects of an oral androgen on muscle and metabolism in older, community-dwelling men.Schroeder ET, Singh A, Bhasin S, Storer TW, Azen C, Davidson T, Martinez C, Sinha-Hikim I, Jaque SV, Terk M, Sattler FR.
Department of Medicine, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.
To determine whether oxymetholone increases lean body mass (LBM) and skeletal muscle strength in older persons, 31 men 65-80 yr of age were randomized to placebo (group 1) or 50 mg (group 2) or 100 mg (group 3) daily for 12 wk. For the three groups, total LBM increased by 0.0 +/- 0.6, 3.3 +/- 1.2 (P < 0.001), and 4.2 +/- 2.4 kg (P < 0.001), respectively. Trunk fat decreased by 0.2 +/- 0.4, 1.7 +/- 1.0 (P = 0.018), and 2.2 +/- 0.9 kg (P = 0.005) in groups 1, 2, and 3, respectively. Relative increases in 1-repetition maximum (1-RM) strength for biaxial chest press of 8.2 +/- 9.2 and 13.9 +/- 8.1% in the two active treatment groups were significantly different from the change (-0.8 +/- 4.3%) for the placebo group (P < 0.03). For lat pull-down, 1-RM changed by -0.6 +/- 8.3, 8.8 +/- 15.1, and 18.4 +/- 21.0% for the groups, respectively (1-way ANOVA, P = 0.019). The pattern of changes among the groups for LBM and upper-body strength suggested that changes might be related to dose. Alanine aminotransferase increased by 72 +/- 67 U/l in group 3 (P < 0.001), and HDL-cholesterol decreased by -19 +/- 9 and -23 +/- 18 mg/dl in groups 2 and 3, respectively (P = 0.04 and P = 0.008). Thus oxymetholone improved LBM and maximal voluntary muscle strength and decreased fat mass in older men.
06-12-2009, 07:51 AM
Thyroid, good call Seth - yet another interesting addition to the possible mechanisms associated with fat loss when using ox/var. For me, Thyroid supplemention never did a darn thing as far as fat loss goes but my body is stubborn, almost resistant, to many things I intorduce. So, logicaly, it could be via Thyroid as well, but for me, I doubt that is the "magic" pathway involved for oxandrolone's profound fat loss effects.
I imagine most gear possess many of these attributes (swinging the estrogen,cortisol, and thyroid pendulums infavor of fat loss) but I still think there has to be one specific thing ox/var does that simply trumps the others, especially given the fact it is a relatively"weak" androgens so the argument cannot be made it's simply stronger, therefore more potent.
I wonder if oxandrolone also significantly impacts the PPAR pathways in that we know those can be potent fat loss drivers as well.
06-12-2009, 08:22 AM
06-12-2009, 09:33 AM
i'm just dumbfounded as thats the first time i've seen evidence of anavar being effective at a dosage that is reasonably priced
06-12-2009, 09:47 AM
06-12-2009, 09:58 AM
06-12-2009, 09:58 AM
Its sort of like how 300mg-400mg of test was considered solid cycles (and 200 a beginners cycle) back in the 80s.
I'd imagine that anavar's negative effect on lipids is much lower at 20mg as well.
06-12-2009, 10:15 AM
06-12-2009, 11:42 AM
06-13-2009, 09:29 AM
So are there OTC alternatives for Anavar/Oxandrolone that work as well as the real thing?
On a different lineup, I saw an AI mentioned as well as AnabolicPump and P-Slin... would Formestane, P-Slin, and yellow gold have a similar effect? Would 1-carboxy interfere with this? I guess I better get reading
06-17-2009, 09:41 PM
by golly, heres another study, possibly even more interesting
2008: Vega Gloria Lena; Clarenbach Jacob J; Dunn Fredrick; Grundy Scott M
Oxandrolone enhances hepatic ketogenesis in adult men.
Journal of investigative medicine : the official publication of the American Federation for Clinical Research 2008;56(7):920-4.
BACKGROUND: Immediate administration of oxandrolone markedly increases hepatic lipase activity and reduces levels of plasma high-density lipoprotein. RATIONALE FOR THE STUDY: We postulated that oxandrolone should increase hepatic lipase and that the nonesterified fatty acids generated would enhance hepatic ketogenesis during an extended fat tolerance test. MAIN RESULTS: Eighteen men participated in the study using short-term administration of oxandrolone (10 mg/d) over a week. Subjects had evaluation of hepatic ketogenesis at baseline and after 7 days of administration of oxandrolone. Ketogenesis was assessed by measuring plasma levels of 3-hydroxybutyrate during a fat tolerance test. Oxandrolone increased fasting levels of 3-hydroxybutyrate by 70%, and increased the area under the curve during an FFT by 53% above pretreatment levels without affecting the areas under the curve for nonesterified fatty acids, glycerol, or triglycerides. Fasting 3-hydroxybutyrate levels correlated with nonesterified fatty acids and with triglycerides; however, there were no significant correlations with any other parameter. CONCLUSIONS: This study shows that short-term administration of oxandrolone results in marked increases in hepatic ketogenesis. This finding is consistent with an increased influx of fatty acids into the liver secondary to lipoprotein lipolysis by increased hepatic lipase. However, the possibility cannot be ruled out that oxandrolone acts directly in the liver to stimulate fatty acid oxidation. Therefore, the observation of increased ketogenesis will require further studies to determine the molecular basis of the response.
06-26-2009, 07:54 PM
That last study had some huge results Seth. Did everyone catch the oxymetholone in there? It seemed like another anavar studay at first. I cant believe doctors put a bunch of senior citizens on a 12 week 100mg/day cycle of A-bombs... Was anyone actually surprised their strength/weight went up so much? I havnt even seen any of the bbers here do an abuser oral cycle like that. Its probably one of those chinese studies.
I've never run anadrol, but is it safe to say the sides are a little overstated?
06-26-2009, 08:24 PM
i've talked to guys who did 150/day. basically 100 a day isn't "crazy" as they are 50mg tabs/caps. so its 2 caps, its not too easy to go from 50 to anything else. i imagine from what i've heard that it helps with fatloss largely because you feel too crappy to eat
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