Supra-physiological doses of T: Journal Article

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    Supra-physiological doses of T: Journal Article


    600mg weekly of Test E for 10 weeks

    Attachment 25907

    My favorite part, within the first paragraph under Results:
    The four groups were similar with respect to age and weight, height, and body-mass index before treatment (Table 1). Acne developed in three men receiving testosterone and one receiving placebo, and two men receiving testosterone reported breast tenderness, but no other side effects were noted. The serum liver-enzyme concentrations, hemoglobin concentrations, hematocrits, and red-cell counts did not change in any study group (Table 2). Serum creatinine concentrations did not change, except in the testosterone-plus-exercise group, in which the mean (▒SE) serum creatinine concentration increased from 1.0 mg per deciliter (88 Ámol per liter) to 1.1 mg per deciliter (97 Ámol per liter) (P=0.02). Plasma concentrations of total and LDL cholesterol and triglycerides did not change in any study group; plasma HDL cholesterol decreased significantly in the placebo-plus-exercise group. There was no change in the serum concentration of prostate-specific antigen in any group.

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    Nice one ozarka.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Nice one ozarka.
    Thanks a lot man. This one got me pretty damn excited.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    600mg weekly of Test E for 10 weeks

    Attachment 25907

    My favorite part, within the first paragraph under Results:
    This one is 20 weeks at 600mg. The blood draw was at 16 weeks with similar findings on side effects as the one you posted. This is my favorite study.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ll/281/6/E1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    This one is 20 weeks at 600mg. The blood draw was at 16 weeks with similar findings on side effects as the one you posted. This is my favorite study.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ll/281/6/E1172
    Awesome heavy. I'll be checking this puppy out for sure. Thanks man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    This one is 20 weeks at 600mg. The blood draw was at 16 weeks with similar findings on side effects as the one you posted. This is my favorite study.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ll/281/6/E1172
    Here's the full article in a pdf just in case anyone wants to take a look.

    Attachment 25915
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    This study is widely paraded around as a "shining example of how safe steroids are". The simple fact is it does not correlate with what we see in the clinic each and every day.

    Not one man became polycythemic. I will send at least two men of 43 for therapeutic phlebotomy at 1/4 (100mg IM per week) the dose. I also see drastic negative changes in Lipid Profile and Fasting Insulin in nearly every patient at that dose. Etc etc.

    Note how no ill issues from high estrogen are noted. Does anyone REALLY believe 43 guys can take 600mg per week and NOT ONE will have a problem with elevated estrogen? Right. At least 1/5th will from 100mg per week.

    This "study" is garbage. Plain and simple. When you have a "study" which contradicts what every clinician in the world sees, lemmings line up at the edge of the cliff...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    This study is widely paraded around as a "shining example of how safe steroids are". The simple fact is it does not correlate with what we see in the clinic each and every day.

    Not one man became polycythemic. I will send at least two men of 43 for therapeutic phlebotomy at 1/4 (100mg IM per week) the dose. I also see drastic negative changes in Lipid Profile and Fasting Insulin in nearly every patient at that dose. Etc etc.

    Note how no ill issues from high estrogen are noted. Does anyone REALLY believe 43 guys can take 600mg per week and NOT ONE will have a problem with elevated estrogen? Right. At least 1/5th will from 100mg per week.

    This "study" is garbage. Plain and simple. When you have a "study" which contradicts what every clinician in the world sees, lemmings line up at the edge of the cliff...
    Did you see the other similar study I posted? What do you think about that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Did you see the other similar study I posted? What do you think about that?
    I just checked it briefly. Again, the results contradict what we see in the clinic.

    For instance, when guys come in at twice normal range (after a couple months) they often have no sexual function. Once I drop them down to the upper 1/4 of normal range, they go big time!
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    Bump for Dr. John

    I think he is correct in that it is unwise to assume that 500-1000mg cycles for 10-12 weeks wont cause any negative health repercussions *for some people* based on these studies. The studies tell us that the "evils" of testosterone are obviously overstated by media and popular opinion. However, they are not without any negative effects.

    We all really appreciate your contributions here.
    That which does not kill us makes us stronger - Friedrich Nietzsche
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    I just checked it briefly. Again, the results contradict what we see in the clinic.

    For instance, when guys come in at twice normal range (after a couple months) they often have no sexual function. Once I drop them down to the upper 1/4 of normal range, they go big time!
    Interesting. Hmm.. study validity must suck ass.. Wonder why this is!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. John View Post
    This study is widely paraded around as a "shining example of how safe steroids are". The simple fact is it does not correlate with what we see in the clinic each and every day.

    Not one man became polycythemic. I will send at least two men of 43 for therapeutic phlebotomy at 1/4 (100mg IM per week) the dose. I also see drastic negative changes in Lipid Profile and Fasting Insulin in nearly every patient at that dose. Etc etc.

    Note how no ill issues from high estrogen are noted. Does anyone REALLY believe 43 guys can take 600mg per week and NOT ONE will have a problem with elevated estrogen? Right. At least 1/5th will from 100mg per week.

    This "study" is garbage. Plain and simple. When you have a "study" which contradicts what every clinician in the world sees, lemmings line up at the edge of the cliff...

    I don't see elevations out of the reference range with my RBC or hematocrit at 600mg per week of cyp unless I run durations longer than 16 weeks. My HDL will reduce to about 30 though and my fasting glucose has been around 100 while on. I have never had estrogen related symptoms other than water retention at that dose and my sex drive is normal, although at lower doses my libido is higher.

    Only 13 men took the 600mg dose in the study I posted so that is a smaller pool.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ll/281/6/E1172

    btw, I started using HCG while on just over 2 years ago because of your papers and I love it.

    Thank you for your contributions to HRT. I really appreciate your work John.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    I don't see elevations out of the reference range with my RBC or hematocrit at 600mg per week of cyp unless I run durations longer than 16 weeks. My HDL will reduce to about 30 though and my fasting glucose has been around 100 while on. I have never had estrogen related symptoms other than water retention at that dose and my sex drive is normal, although at lower doses my libido is higher.

    Only 13 men took the 600mg dose in the study I posted so that is a smaller pool.

    http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ll/281/6/E1172

    btw, I started using HCG while on just over 2 years ago because of your papers and I love it.

    Thank you for your contributions to HRT. I really appreciate your work John.
    Thank you.

    TRT is known to increase reverse CHOL transport, just like HDL does. I do not know if that happens at doses higher than usual TRT, but I am making an educated guess it does.
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    Great to hear from you again Doc. Your expert guidance is always appreciated.
  

  
 

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