jamesb2525
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For a first time test e cycle how many mg did you take every week, for how long and what gains did you make and maintain after pct?:feedback:
Test E@500mgsEW (Weeks 1-12)For a first time test e cycle how many mg did you take every week, for how long and what gains did you make and maintain after pct?:feedback:
Thanks everyone im just trying to get a good idea of what to expect. Did anyone take before and after pics? That would be cool to see thanks
check out mine in the picture section.
500mg, 12 weeks, 25lbs, kept it all, pct was nolva/clomid. dbol kickstart, Havoc last 4 weeks
4 weeks, next time around i'll probably run it 6 weeksHow long did you run the Dbol as a kickstarter?
Good info bro, how did u know your test e kicked in by day 8. Is there a test that can be done to knowWhen I run test e I always run dbol together. Test e wont reach the peak before 6-8 days, so you must run a potent oral with it. Personally, i run test around 100-200mg eod (yes, eod) and a decreasing dbol schedule starting with 60mg and ending with 30-20mg at day 6-8, when test e reach the peak.
Yes, you can do a testosterone test to check it, but you will need to do at least 3 tests to figure out when you reach the peak.Good info bro, how did u know your test e kicked in by day 8. Is there a test that can be done to know
No, no no no.Yes, you can do a testosterone test to check it, but you will need to do at least 3 tests to figure out when you reach the peak.
6-8 days is the active-life of test enan, so 6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. Its the teory... in the real world testosterone level swings, but if you keep injectin at least every 3-4 day, this swings tend to be lower.
Sorry mate, i dont share the same point of view.No, no no no.
Enanthate is a 10.5 day half life. And that means 10 days later your shot will be 50% eliminated, that's the definition of half life. And no it isn't constant after that, it builds up for weeks and then still slightly spikes and dips when you shoot.
Bro, did your blood work confirm your reaseach? Would be great for you to post it, will change everyones opinions on the use of long acting esters as a cycle kick start. Will no longer need test prop. Am looking forward to your post, is nice to see that somone finally has backed up reading material with physical evidence. I truly hate the "I have heard or I have read" posts. Show me some physical evidence.Sorry mate, i dont share the same point of view.
I have read this definition of half life everywhere and I can say thats pretty wrong when we bring it to AAS protocols. I can explain what is the real deal when active and half lifes is in evidence, but at this moment I prefer to take some cientific stuff to prove my point.
I dont have 50 posts here, so remove the spaces to get the link, ok?
http ://www3. interscience. wiley. com/journal/ 119853356/abstract
In this study testosterone levels reach the peak 8-24hrs after the injection, getting 4-5 times the basal level with an equivalent of 140mg of free testosterone (without ester weight). Nine days after the injection the testosterone levels returned to basal.
Yes, you can do a testosterone test to check it, but you will need to do at least 3 tests to figure out when you reach the peak.
6-8 days is the active-life of test enan, so 6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. Its the teory... in the real world testosterone level swings, but if you keep injectin at least every 3-4 day, this swings tend to be lower.
No, no no no.
Enanthate is a 10.5 day half life. And that means 10 days later your shot will be 50% eliminated, that's the definition of half life. And no it isn't constant after that, it builds up for weeks and then still slightly spikes and dips when you shoot.
These terms need to be defined. active life, half life.Sorry mate, i dont share the same point of view.
I have read this definition of half life everywhere and I can say thats pretty wrong when we bring it to AAS protocols. I can explain what is the real deal when active and half lifes is in evidence, but at this moment I prefer to take some cientific stuff to prove my point.
I dont have 50 posts here, so remove the spaces to get the link, ok?
http ://www3. interscience. wiley. com/journal/ 119853356/abstract
In this study testosterone levels reach the peak 8-24hrs after the injection, getting 4-5 times the basal level with an equivalent of 140mg of free testosterone (without ester weight). Nine days after the injection the testosterone levels returned to basal.
In the truth I never did a blood work during a cycle, but who cares? Its a fact if you consider all the medical studies and medical literature. Even if you take some (good) steroid books you will find out this infos: Test E has an active life around 6-8 or maybe 10 days in some studies/books. Its very easy to find out this info in the medline, medbolics, pubmed, j chem and other. Rea book's, Chemical Muscle Enhancement give us the same active life, 8 days.Bro, did your blood work confirm your reaseach? Would be great for you to post it, will change everyones opinions on the use of long acting esters as a cycle kick start. Will no longer need test prop. Am looking forward to your post, is nice to see that somone finally has backed up reading material with physical evidence. I truly hate the "I have heard or I have read" posts. Show me some physical evidence.
Yes, I will explain what active and half life really means, but at first let me explain one thing. Test E, C, P and every other ester DOESNT MAKE ANY EFFECT. Only free testosterone can merge with the receptor site. And how Test E makes the work? After it been released from the injection depot it will be hydrolysed, resultin in free testosterone and a free ester enanthate. The ester will be removed by the esterase enzime and the testosterone will be carried by SHBG around the body. After that, you cant figure out what is natural testosterone and what is synthetic. Its pretty much the same thing. By the way, the half life of free testosterone is around 10-30mins and a maximum of 100mins in few studies.These terms need to be defined. active life, half life.
A drug can still be in your system because the half life has not expired but that does not mean it is providing performance. After injecting Test E it will spike quite rapidly in about 1-2 days and fall off to baseline in about 10 days. There will still be synthetic hormone in your system but it will be less than what the male body produces so performance will decline.
See, this is the main statement I have a problem with. I dont' care about the semantics of half life and active half life. I understand Enanthate can peak quickly I've seen HeavyIron's pic before.6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. I
Its your personal experience dude. Im bringing some cientific stuff here and telling what really happen.See, this is the main statement I have a problem with. I dont' care about the semantics of half life and active half life. I understand Enanthate can peak quickly I've seen HeavyIron's pic before.
What I don't get is you saying that your TestE kicked in on day 8 and that the testosterone level is constant after day 8. That's just absolute garbage.
I'm on week 8 of my test cycle and it just kicked in.
No way Enanthate is "kicking in" on day 8. A lot of orals need more time than that. Just ludicrous.
I mean jesus you're telling people to run Dbol for the first 6-8 days of the cycle because Test will kick in after day 8, this is insane... I can't believe i'm the only person objecting. I'm out of here.
i don't want to be an ass but "hidrofobic" and "hidrofilic" reallllyyyy....
UnrealMachine was actually referring to your poor spelling: hYdroPHilic, hYdroPHobic.Im not saying that testosterone level is constant after day 8, but after that testosterone level wont raise substantially. Its pretty simple dude, if after 8-10 days the testosterone shot was completly eliminated how can the testosterone level raises if you keep the same dose and schedule? In te truth, it is insane.
I cant understand how you start to feel the results just in week 8 man. Personally I see the results in 5-7 days with orals, and the gains keep coming after I stop orals when Im running test. Yeah man, hidrofilic and hidrofobic... too geek? Maybe, but its what makes the esterified steroids half life shorter or longer.
Man, how could you acumulate testosterone taking constat doses after the first shot is completly released? Its nonsense.
I bring some good infos here in this thread, both theoric and real stuff. Im think i have prove my point... if you are so confident in what your saying, bring some studies or even a book reference proving that after 8-10 days of a constant dose of test E your testosterone level keep rising.
About the spelling, im not american, give me a break =)
Im from Brazil man, thanks for asking =)Keep Building, where ya from bro?
Excellent point, this is why the roid calculator was made. plug in the doses and you will see an increase over weeks not 8 days. 8 days is silly and hardy scientific for the peak blood androgen levels to be reached using Test E.UnrealMachine was actually referring to your poor spelling: hYdroPHilic, hYdroPHobic.
And here is what you are missing with this whole argument (I think): after 8 days that SINGLE first shot of (lets say 250 mg) Test E has peaked in your system, but that does not mean that your test levels are as high as they will ever be during that cycle. This is because the next 250 mg injection 3-4 days later would add to the test still in your system from the previous injection, giving the doses a cumulative effect. On a 500 mg per week test E cycle, you will have MUCH more than 500 mg of exogenous test your body. To empirically prove my point, after the last injection of Test E we usually wait 10-14 days before beginning the SERM treatment, because that is about how long it takes for that ACCUMULATION of test E to return to baseline levels.
If you have he article, post it here. Put some spaces in the link to post.
Come on brother, are you kidding me? This chart obviously doesnt have any scientific value. It serve only to illustrate a (wrong) concept of AAS half-life, the same concept UnrealMachine put here some posts ago and I've disagree in another post.Here: Just look at the "without frontload" line
ht tp://w w w.war rior fx.com/blog/wp-content/ uploads/2007/07/front load chart.gif
Keep Building, you have an interesting theory. I would like very much to know more. How many yrs have you cycled using this method and what kind of gains in lean muscle mass did you achieve.Come on brother, are you kidding me? This chart obviously doesnt have any scientific value. It serve only to illustrate a (wrong) concept of AAS half-life, the same concept UnrealMachine put here some posts ago and I've disagree in another post.
I cant understand how everybody here are getting this wrong information and repeating over and over again around the internet and gyms. They already maked non-scientific charts "to prove" this theory and even a "Roid Calculator" using the same damn theory.
Im not wanna play the know-all, but this is a basic concept, nobody should take it wrong.
I've run 5 cycle in my entire life. The first one I runned using the old school theory. It means long cycles (8+ weeks), big doses (800mg total steroids, without ester weight) and an improper PCT (clomid only). My first cycle was Test E 600mg/week for 10 weeks and dbol 50mg/d for 5 weeks. I got pretty good gains (14lbs) in the firsts 6 weeks, but after that I didnt get 1lb more. a few days after this cycle I dropped 10lbs... 1 or 2 weeks after PCT I dropped the last 4lbs and get into a ****ed depression. Some months after that I was determinated to learn all about steroids and the proper way to run it. I bought some steroid books, did a lot of search on internet and discovered an entire new world.Keep Building, you have an interesting theory. I would like very much to know more. How many yrs have you cycled using this method and what kind of gains in lean muscle mass did you achieve.
Thanks
The chart I posted on the first page is actual blood androgen levels measured after 1 injection. It is not hypothetical. If you take another shot while above baseline your levels will spike even higher than the previous shot and keep doing that for weeks. This is common knowledge proven by science and many experienced users.Come on brother, are you kidding me? This chart obviously doesnt have any scientific value. It serve only to illustrate a (wrong) concept of AAS half-life, the same concept UnrealMachine put here some posts ago and I've disagree in another post.
I cant understand how everybody here are getting this wrong information and repeating over and over again around the internet and gyms. They already maked non-scientific charts "to prove" this theory and even a "Roid Calculator" using the same damn theory.
Im not wanna play the know-all, but this is a basic concept, nobody should take it wrong.
Yes, and I thank you a lot for the chart. That chart only proves what I was talking about: about 8-10 days the testosterone levels return to basal. Its called active-life.The chart I posted on the first page is actual blood androgen levels measured after 1 injection. It is not hypothetical. If you take another shot while above baseline your levels will spike even higher than the previous shot and keep doing that for weeks. This is common knowledge proven by science and many experienced users.
Of course I agree, but the point is that: after the active live, if you are following a constant dose protocol, you dont accumulate nothing more. Its pretty simple to understant. Do the math.So you do agree that taking subsequent shots overtime accumulates more and more testosterone (maybe not all FREE)? This is a fact of just about any substance we take into our bodies.
Also you say that testosterone is hydrophilic which is completely false. Testosterone is a cholesterol based hormone making it lipid based (meaning made up of hydrocarbons) and NOT water soluble which is why testerone must bind to globulin proteins for transport in the blood. Adding an ester should not change the solubility of the steroid itself either.
You DO accumulate more because you inject more BEFORE the active half life ends.
So we're saying it takes 8 days for 1 inject of test to clear. But on day 4, you inject again, this shot won't clear until day 12. And then on day 8 you inject again, this shot won't clear until day 16. But on day 11 you inject again, this shot won't clear until day 19. And on day 15 you inject again and it wont' clear until day 23.
So on day 15 you have test from the shot on day 8, the shot on day 11, and the shot on day 15 itself.
IT DOES BUILD UP.
PERIOD.
To make it easy to explain, lets consider all drugs have a constant release rate from depot to bloodstream. Lets assume Test E has an active-life of 10 days, so if you take a single shot of 100mg it will release 10mg into your bloodstream everyday and them this shot wont do nothing more. So our cycle is 10mmg Test E e3d (one shot at day 1,4,7,10,13,16...)
---Shot------Day N---Test released into bloodstream
(100mg shot) Day 1 - 10mg
------------- Day 2- 10mg
------------- Day 3 - 10mg
(100mg shot) Day 4 - 20mg <-- Here we accumulate Shot 1 and 2
------------- Day 5- 20mg
------------- Day 6 - 20mg
(100mg shot) Day 7 - 30mg <-- Here we accumulate Shot 1, 2 and 3
------------- Day 8- 30mg
------------- Day 9 - 30mg
(100mg shot) Day 10 - 40mg
------------- Day 11- 30mg <-- Here the shot 1 is completly done, so we dont
count with it any more. So we drop the release rate
------------- Day 12 - 30mg
(100mg shot) Day 13 - 40mg <-- More Test Raises your release rate
------------- Day 14- 40mg
------------- Day 15 - 30mg <-- Here again the shot 2 is completly done.
(100mg shot) Day 16 - 40mg <-- More Test Raises your release rate
------------- Day 17- 40mg
------------- Day 18 - 30mg <-- Here again the shot 3 is completly done.
And it repeats over and over again. Ok, the release rate is not constant, but what really matters here isnt this. What really matter is the active life of the drug and the time it take to reach the peak.
So as you see, after day 10 (what is the active life of Test E) you dont build up nothing more. I hope it gets clear to everyone.
As i said, its a hypothetical chart using a hypothetical release rate (constant). If you look closer, you will see that the release rate isnt important when we talk about how testosterone accumulate during a cycle. When we want to study this aspect we need to watch closely the active-life and the schedule. Change the release rate will note change the accumulation of testosterone released. By the way, this exemple I picked from Chemical Muscle Enhancement Vol. 2, writed by L. Rea, PhD Biochemistry, 260lbs and a great shape. Fell free to check it out.Nice made up chart that has no basis in science. I can make up phony charts too. The release rates are not linear with Testosterone C or E. They spike rapidly and fall off slowly. You have no clue how heavy esters work. Go get blood work every day for 3 weeks after starting a cycle and you will see.