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    Calling all test e users


    For a first time test e cycle how many mg did you take every week, for how long and what gains did you make and maintain after pct?

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    500mg a week for 6 weeks. Gained 19 pounds. Lost 8 after my cycle was over
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    I should have stayed on longer. But i got tired of my face being twice the size it normally is.
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    -500mg/week for 10 weeks
    -gained 20lbs
    -kept 12lbs after pct
    -pct consisted of clomid & nolvadex

    C_
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    500mg for first 10 weeks, then went to 750mg which i'm on now. i'm in the 15-16th week still getting stronger. gained somewhere around 20lbs so far. i dont know why anyone would stay on test-e shorter than 12 weeks, its more of a slow steady gainer. for me i didnt even get stronger until 6 weeks in.

    i think most of the guys who did it for a short time probably just gained alot of water weight in the beginning and stopped too early, thats why they lose alot... once youre on it for a while that water goes away and then the solid muscle comes
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb2525 View Post
    For a first time test e cycle how many mg did you take every week, for how long and what gains did you make and maintain after pct?
    Test E@500mgsEW (Weeks 1-12)
    My first cycle consisted of this and I gained around 20 pounds and kept it, of course it wasnt all lean muscle. The reason why I keep most if not all of my gains is due to the fact that I'm on TRT. With a good PCT You should be able to keep a good precentage of that. Try to avoid adjusting the doses, either moving the Test E up or down because this is what causes horomone fluctuations and for me leads to some pretty bad acne. Run Nolva at 40/40/20/20. I personally didnt need HCG until I started playing with Deca, Tren and dbol but everyone responds different. I really dont care about the size of my balls, they just get in the way,lol. I have been married for 13 years but say I was to date some girl, she might be like where are u ****ing balls dude, so then I would use HCG, just really applies on the situation. Good luck and feel free to ask bro.
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    Thanks everyone im just trying to get a good idea of what to expect. Did anyone take before and after pics? That would be cool to see thanks
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    Where's the pics guys?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb2525 View Post
    Thanks everyone im just trying to get a good idea of what to expect. Did anyone take before and after pics? That would be cool to see thanks

    check out mine in the picture section.

    500mg, 12 weeks, 25lbs, kept it all, pct was nolva/clomid. dbol kickstart, Havoc last 4 weeks
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    Good pics bro
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    dont really remember the exact numbers on my gains (was long time ago) but the cycle consisted of 12 weeks 400mg test-e and first 4 weeks 25mg dianabol. Nolvadex for pct. gained quite a bit, and kept most of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    check out mine in the picture section.

    500mg, 12 weeks, 25lbs, kept it all, pct was nolva/clomid. dbol kickstart, Havoc last 4 weeks

    How long did you run the Dbol as a kickstarter?
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    test e 500mgs per week great starter cycle
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    When I run test e I always run dbol together. Test e wont reach the peak before 6-8 days, so you must run a potent oral with it. Personally, i run test around 100-200mg eod (yes, eod) and a decreasing dbol schedule starting with 60mg and ending with 30-20mg at day 6-8, when test e reach the peak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITLIST View Post
    How long did you run the Dbol as a kickstarter?
    4 weeks, next time around i'll probably run it 6 weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    When I run test e I always run dbol together. Test e wont reach the peak before 6-8 days, so you must run a potent oral with it. Personally, i run test around 100-200mg eod (yes, eod) and a decreasing dbol schedule starting with 60mg and ending with 30-20mg at day 6-8, when test e reach the peak.
    Good info bro, how did u know your test e kicked in by day 8. Is there a test that can be done to know
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBdude View Post
    Good info bro, how did u know your test e kicked in by day 8. Is there a test that can be done to know
    Yes, you can do a testosterone test to check it, but you will need to do at least 3 tests to figure out when you reach the peak.

    6-8 days is the active-life of test enan, so 6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. Its the teory... in the real world testosterone level swings, but if you keep injectin at least every 3-4 day, this swings tend to be lower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Yes, you can do a testosterone test to check it, but you will need to do at least 3 tests to figure out when you reach the peak.

    6-8 days is the active-life of test enan, so 6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. Its the teory... in the real world testosterone level swings, but if you keep injectin at least every 3-4 day, this swings tend to be lower.
    No, no no no.

    Enanthate is a 10.5 day half life. And that means 10 days later your shot will be 50% eliminated, that's the definition of half life. And no it isn't constant after that, it builds up for weeks and then still slightly spikes and dips when you shoot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    No, no no no.

    Enanthate is a 10.5 day half life. And that means 10 days later your shot will be 50% eliminated, that's the definition of half life. And no it isn't constant after that, it builds up for weeks and then still slightly spikes and dips when you shoot.
    Sorry mate, i dont share the same point of view.

    I have read this definition of half life everywhere and I can say thats pretty wrong when we bring it to AAS protocols. I can explain what is the real deal when active and half lifes is in evidence, but at this moment I prefer to take some cientific stuff to prove my point.

    I dont have 50 posts here, so remove the spaces to get the link, ok?
    http ://www3. interscience. wiley. com/journal/ 119853356/abstract

    In this study testosterone levels reach the peak 8-24hrs after the injection, getting 4-5 times the basal level with an equivalent of 140mg of free testosterone (without ester weight). Nine days after the injection the testosterone levels returned to basal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Sorry mate, i dont share the same point of view.

    I have read this definition of half life everywhere and I can say thats pretty wrong when we bring it to AAS protocols. I can explain what is the real deal when active and half lifes is in evidence, but at this moment I prefer to take some cientific stuff to prove my point.

    I dont have 50 posts here, so remove the spaces to get the link, ok?
    http ://www3. interscience. wiley. com/journal/ 119853356/abstract

    In this study testosterone levels reach the peak 8-24hrs after the injection, getting 4-5 times the basal level with an equivalent of 140mg of free testosterone (without ester weight). Nine days after the injection the testosterone levels returned to basal.
    Bro, did your blood work confirm your reaseach? Would be great for you to post it, will change everyones opinions on the use of long acting esters as a cycle kick start. Will no longer need test prop. Am looking forward to your post, is nice to see that somone finally has backed up reading material with physical evidence. I truly hate the "I have heard or I have read" posts. Show me some physical evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Yes, you can do a testosterone test to check it, but you will need to do at least 3 tests to figure out when you reach the peak.

    6-8 days is the active-life of test enan, so 6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. Its the teory... in the real world testosterone level swings, but if you keep injectin at least every 3-4 day, this swings tend to be lower.
    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    No, no no no.

    Enanthate is a 10.5 day half life. And that means 10 days later your shot will be 50% eliminated, that's the definition of half life. And no it isn't constant after that, it builds up for weeks and then still slightly spikes and dips when you shoot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Sorry mate, i dont share the same point of view.

    I have read this definition of half life everywhere and I can say thats pretty wrong when we bring it to AAS protocols. I can explain what is the real deal when active and half lifes is in evidence, but at this moment I prefer to take some cientific stuff to prove my point.

    I dont have 50 posts here, so remove the spaces to get the link, ok?
    http ://www3. interscience. wiley. com/journal/ 119853356/abstract

    In this study testosterone levels reach the peak 8-24hrs after the injection, getting 4-5 times the basal level with an equivalent of 140mg of free testosterone (without ester weight). Nine days after the injection the testosterone levels returned to basal.
    These terms need to be defined. active life, half life.

    A drug can still be in your system because the half life has not expired but that does not mean it is providing performance. After injecting Test E it will spike quite rapidly in about 1-2 days and fall off to baseline in about 10 days. There will still be synthetic hormone in your system but it will be less than what the male body produces so performance will decline.

    Pharmacokinetics of Testosterone cypionate Injection


    Figure. Pharmacokinetics of 200mg Testosterone cypionate injection. Source: Comparison of Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of Testosterone enanthate or Testosterone cypionate. Schulte-Beerbuhl M, Nieschlag E. Fertility and Sterility 33 (1980) 201-3.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBdude View Post
    Bro, did your blood work confirm your reaseach? Would be great for you to post it, will change everyones opinions on the use of long acting esters as a cycle kick start. Will no longer need test prop. Am looking forward to your post, is nice to see that somone finally has backed up reading material with physical evidence. I truly hate the "I have heard or I have read" posts. Show me some physical evidence.
    In the truth I never did a blood work during a cycle, but who cares? Its a fact if you consider all the medical studies and medical literature. Even if you take some (good) steroid books you will find out this infos: Test E has an active life around 6-8 or maybe 10 days in some studies/books. Its very easy to find out this info in the medline, medbolics, pubmed, j chem and other. Rea book's, Chemical Muscle Enhancement give us the same active life, 8 days.

    These terms need to be defined. active life, half life.

    A drug can still be in your system because the half life has not expired but that does not mean it is providing performance. After injecting Test E it will spike quite rapidly in about 1-2 days and fall off to baseline in about 10 days. There will still be synthetic hormone in your system but it will be less than what the male body produces so performance will decline.
    Yes, I will explain what active and half life really means, but at first let me explain one thing. Test E, C, P and every other ester DOESNT MAKE ANY EFFECT. Only free testosterone can merge with the receptor site. And how Test E makes the work? After it been released from the injection depot it will be hydrolysed, resultin in free testosterone and a free ester enanthate. The ester will be removed by the esterase enzime and the testosterone will be carried by SHBG around the body. After that, you cant figure out what is natural testosterone and what is synthetic. Its pretty much the same thing. By the way, the half life of free testosterone is around 10-30mins and a maximum of 100mins in few studies.

    Right, lets back to the active and half life concept. Testosterone itself is a hidrofilic drug. It means that free testosterone get a better solubility in water than fat. When you put an ester in the 17th carbon of testosterone, you make it a hidrofobic drug, and that means this new compound get a better solubility in fat than water. Many carbons an ester has more hidrofobic is the drug... thats why you wont find Test P in concentrations higher than 100mg/ml and Test E you can find even in 300mg/ml concentration. So, when you inject a drug you get it into an intramuscular depot, and this depot is in contact with the blood stream. Its good to remember that the blood is a water based compound. If you get into your intramuscular depot a high hidrofilic drug, like test suspension, it will be released into the blood stream very fast. But if you get a high hidrofobic drug, like Test E, the release rate is lower. The time needed to a shot be released into the blood stream is called active life. We dont count the half life of free testosterone because it is insignificant.

    And whats half life? Simples, is the half of active life. Pretty dumb, aM? It would be if the release rate was regular, but its not. Theorically, the higher release rate is in the half life of each drug.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    6-8 days after you start the cycle the first shot will be eliminated. After that the testosterone level will be the same along all the cycle. I
    See, this is the main statement I have a problem with. I dont' care about the semantics of half life and active half life. I understand Enanthate can peak quickly I've seen HeavyIron's pic before.


    What I don't get is you saying that your TestE kicked in on day 8 and that the testosterone level is constant after day 8. That's just absolute garbage.

    I'm on week 8 of my test cycle and it just kicked in.

    No way Enanthate is "kicking in" on day 8. A lot of orals need more time than that. Just ludicrous.


    I mean jesus you're telling people to run Dbol for the first 6-8 days of the cycle because Test will kick in after day 8, this is insane... I can't believe i'm the only person objecting. I'm out of here.

    i don't want to be an ass but "hidrofobic" and "hidrofilic" reallllyyyy....
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    See, this is the main statement I have a problem with. I dont' care about the semantics of half life and active half life. I understand Enanthate can peak quickly I've seen HeavyIron's pic before.


    What I don't get is you saying that your TestE kicked in on day 8 and that the testosterone level is constant after day 8. That's just absolute garbage.

    I'm on week 8 of my test cycle and it just kicked in.

    No way Enanthate is "kicking in" on day 8. A lot of orals need more time than that. Just ludicrous.


    I mean jesus you're telling people to run Dbol for the first 6-8 days of the cycle because Test will kick in after day 8, this is insane... I can't believe i'm the only person objecting. I'm out of here.

    i don't want to be an ass but "hidrofobic" and "hidrofilic" reallllyyyy....
    Its your personal experience dude. Im bringing some cientific stuff here and telling what really happen.

    Im not saying that testosterone level is constant after day 8, but after that testosterone level wont raise substantially. Its pretty simple dude, if after 8-10 days the testosterone shot was completly eliminated how can the testosterone level raises if you keep the same dose and schedule? In te truth, it is insane.


    I cant understand how you start to feel the results just in week 8 man. Personally I see the results in 5-7 days with orals, and the gains keep coming after I stop orals when Im running test. Yeah man, hidrofilic and hidrofobic... too geek? Maybe, but its what makes the esterified steroids half life shorter or longer.
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    420mg per wk 10 wks, gained 25-27 lbs initially, some unrelated health issues
    kept me out of the gym afterwards for about 3 months though so i lost it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post

    Im not saying that testosterone level is constant after day 8, but after that testosterone level wont raise substantially. Its pretty simple dude, if after 8-10 days the testosterone shot was completly eliminated how can the testosterone level raises if you keep the same dose and schedule? In te truth, it is insane.


    I cant understand how you start to feel the results just in week 8 man. Personally I see the results in 5-7 days with orals, and the gains keep coming after I stop orals when Im running test. Yeah man, hidrofilic and hidrofobic... too geek? Maybe, but its what makes the esterified steroids half life shorter or longer.
    UnrealMachine was actually referring to your poor spelling: hYdroPHilic, hYdroPHobic.

    And here is what you are missing with this whole argument (I think): after 8 days that SINGLE first shot of (lets say 250 mg) Test E has peaked in your system, but that does not mean that your test levels are as high as they will ever be during that cycle. This is because the next 250 mg injection 3-4 days later would add to the test still in your system from the previous injection, giving the doses a cumulative effect. On a 500 mg per week test E cycle, you will have MUCH more than 500 mg of exogenous test your body. To empirically prove my point, after the last injection of Test E we usually wait 10-14 days before beginning the SERM treatment, because that is about how long it takes for that ACCUMULATION of test E to return to baseline levels.
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    Man, how could you acumulate testosterone taking constat doses after the first shot is completly released? Its nonsense.

    I bring some good infos here in this thread, both theoric and real stuff. Im think i have prove my point... if you are so confident in what your saying, bring some studies or even a book reference proving that after 8-10 days of a constant dose of test E your testosterone level keep rising.

    About the spelling, im not american, give me a break =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Man, how could you acumulate testosterone taking constat doses after the first shot is completly released? Its nonsense.

    I bring some good infos here in this thread, both theoric and real stuff. Im think i have prove my point... if you are so confident in what your saying, bring some studies or even a book reference proving that after 8-10 days of a constant dose of test E your testosterone level keep rising.

    About the spelling, im not american, give me a break =)

    Test E doesn't COMPLETELY wash out of your system for almost 3 weeks, but one usually injects twice a week. Think about it. And just because a hormone has reached maximum saturation in your system, that doesn't mean that it is already exerting its full effect in terms of anabolism, nitrogen retention, etc. If this were the case, every oral with a short half-life (like Superdrol) would be exerting its full effect after the first dose.

    I just found a perfect article explaining all this with graphs and everything, but I can't post or PM yet because I don't have enough posts...I'll PM it to you after 5 more posts.
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    Keep Building, where ya from bro?
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    If you have he article, post it here. Put some spaces in the link to post.


    Test E give what you wish because it raises your test level. If your test level return to basal around 6-10 days, its clearly that this single dose is exerting its full effect. Orals is the same thing, a single dose exerts its full effect very quickly. The only thing cumulative after the active-life in a constant dose cycle is your gains. Maybe your results became more apparent after 1 or 2 weeks, but its doesnt means your test level is acumulating. If a shot of Test E still in your body after 6-10 days, its a insiginifcant amount, like all the studies says.

    I didnt invented this theory, I get it from some good books, like Chemical Muscle Enhancement and Androgens and Anabolic Agents. Its all there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBdude View Post
    Keep Building, where ya from bro?
    Im from Brazil man, thanks for asking =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    UnrealMachine was actually referring to your poor spelling: hYdroPHilic, hYdroPHobic.

    And here is what you are missing with this whole argument (I think): after 8 days that SINGLE first shot of (lets say 250 mg) Test E has peaked in your system, but that does not mean that your test levels are as high as they will ever be during that cycle. This is because the next 250 mg injection 3-4 days later would add to the test still in your system from the previous injection, giving the doses a cumulative effect. On a 500 mg per week test E cycle, you will have MUCH more than 500 mg of exogenous test your body. To empirically prove my point, after the last injection of Test E we usually wait 10-14 days before beginning the SERM treatment, because that is about how long it takes for that ACCUMULATION of test E to return to baseline levels.
    Excellent point, this is why the roid calculator was made. plug in the doses and you will see an increase over weeks not 8 days. 8 days is silly and hardy scientific for the peak blood androgen levels to be reached using Test E.

    http://www.steroidsource.net/calculator.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    If you have he article, post it here. Put some spaces in the link to post.

    Here: Just look at the "without frontload" line

    ht tp://w w w.war rior fx.com/blog/wp-content/ uploads/2007/07/front load chart.gif
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator 87 View Post
    Here: Just look at the "without frontload" line

    ht tp://w w w.war rior fx.com/blog/wp-content/ uploads/2007/07/front load chart.gif
    Come on brother, are you kidding me? This chart obviously doesnt have any scientific value. It serve only to illustrate a (wrong) concept of AAS half-life, the same concept UnrealMachine put here some posts ago and I've disagree in another post.

    I cant understand how everybody here are getting this wrong information and repeating over and over again around the internet and gyms. They already maked non-scientific charts "to prove" this theory and even a "Roid Calculator" using the same damn theory.

    Im not wanna play the know-all, but this is a basic concept, nobody should take it wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Come on brother, are you kidding me? This chart obviously doesnt have any scientific value. It serve only to illustrate a (wrong) concept of AAS half-life, the same concept UnrealMachine put here some posts ago and I've disagree in another post.

    I cant understand how everybody here are getting this wrong information and repeating over and over again around the internet and gyms. They already maked non-scientific charts "to prove" this theory and even a "Roid Calculator" using the same damn theory.

    Im not wanna play the know-all, but this is a basic concept, nobody should take it wrong.
    Keep Building, you have an interesting theory. I would like very much to know more. How many yrs have you cycled using this method and what kind of gains in lean muscle mass did you achieve.
    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBdude View Post
    Keep Building, you have an interesting theory. I would like very much to know more. How many yrs have you cycled using this method and what kind of gains in lean muscle mass did you achieve.
    Thanks
    I've run 5 cycle in my entire life. The first one I runned using the old school theory. It means long cycles (8+ weeks), big doses (800mg total steroids, without ester weight) and an improper PCT (clomid only). My first cycle was Test E 600mg/week for 10 weeks and dbol 50mg/d for 5 weeks. I got pretty good gains (14lbs) in the firsts 6 weeks, but after that I didnt get 1lb more. a few days after this cycle I dropped 10lbs... 1 or 2 weeks after PCT I dropped the last 4lbs and get into a ****ed depression. Some months after that I was determinated to learn all about steroids and the proper way to run it. I bought some steroid books, did a lot of search on internet and discovered an entire new world.

    A book called "The Stack" by Paul Borrensen is the greatest book i've ever readed. After that, L. Rea came with Chemical Muscle Enhancement and Building the Perfect Beast. This 3 books has the same approach: short cycles, just the necessary doses and a ****ing great PCT. This is the way i use to run my own cycles. Obviously, the overall results is smaller than when you run long cycle, but the long term results is far way better. I used to keep my weight (of course i lose some lean mass and gain some fat, but just a little bit).

    Following this protocol, you are able to keep a nice shape all year round, not only when you are on gear. This sounds like music to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep Building View Post
    Come on brother, are you kidding me? This chart obviously doesnt have any scientific value. It serve only to illustrate a (wrong) concept of AAS half-life, the same concept UnrealMachine put here some posts ago and I've disagree in another post.

    I cant understand how everybody here are getting this wrong information and repeating over and over again around the internet and gyms. They already maked non-scientific charts "to prove" this theory and even a "Roid Calculator" using the same damn theory.

    Im not wanna play the know-all, but this is a basic concept, nobody should take it wrong.
    The chart I posted on the first page is actual blood androgen levels measured after 1 injection. It is not hypothetical. If you take another shot while above baseline your levels will spike even higher than the previous shot and keep doing that for weeks. This is common knowledge proven by science and many experienced users.
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    The chart I posted on the first page is actual blood androgen levels measured after 1 injection. It is not hypothetical. If you take another shot while above baseline your levels will spike even higher than the previous shot and keep doing that for weeks. This is common knowledge proven by science and many experienced users.
    Yes, and I thank you a lot for the chart. That chart only proves what I was talking about: about 8-10 days the testosterone levels return to basal. Its called active-life.

    My last post was for Gator's charts. Dont get me wrong.
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    So you do agree that taking subsequent shots overtime accumulates more and more testosterone (maybe not all FREE)? This is a fact of just about any substance we take into our bodies.

    Also you say that testosterone is hydrophilic which is completely false. Testosterone is a cholesterol based hormone making it lipid based (meaning made up of hydrocarbons) and NOT water soluble which is why testerone must bind to globulin proteins for transport in the blood. Adding an ester should not change the solubility of the steroid itself either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chargerfball25 View Post
    So you do agree that taking subsequent shots overtime accumulates more and more testosterone (maybe not all FREE)? This is a fact of just about any substance we take into our bodies.

    Also you say that testosterone is hydrophilic which is completely false. Testosterone is a cholesterol based hormone making it lipid based (meaning made up of hydrocarbons) and NOT water soluble which is why testerone must bind to globulin proteins for transport in the blood. Adding an ester should not change the solubility of the steroid itself either.
    Of course I agree, but the point is that: after the active live, if you are following a constant dose protocol, you dont accumulate nothing more. Its pretty simple to understant. Do the math.

    Ok, you are correct about the hydrophilic value of testosterone, brother. I just used some words to illustrate my point and make things more clear, but you are correct, testosterone has a poor solubility in water and in fat. However, when you make testosterone + ester it will change the oil solubility of this new prosteroid, and it makes a lot of diference when we talk about steroids half-lifes. Again, thats why you will never see testosterone suspension with 300mg/ml and you can find easily this concentration in some Test E products.

    To clarify any point, take a look at this article, by PhD Bill Roberts:

    http: //mesomorphosis. com/ articles/pharmacology/ anabolic-steroid-esters.htm
  

  
 

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