Ephedrine and Blood Glucose

[pudzian2]

Here's one quick example from Pubmed emphasis mine:

Enhanced stimulant and metabolic effects of combined ephedrine and caffeine.

* Haller CA,
* Jacob P 3rd,
* Benowitz NL.

Department of Medicine, Division of Clinical Pharmacology, University of California, San Francisco, CA 94143, USA. dchaller@worldnet.att.net

OBJECTIVE: Herbal weight loss and athletic performance-enhancing supplements that contain ephedrine and caffeine have been associated with serious adverse health events. We sought to determine whether ephedrine and caffeine have clinically significant pharmacologic interactions that explain these toxicities. METHODS: Sixteen healthy adults ingested 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, or both drugs in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover study. Plasma and urine samples were collected over a 24-hour period and analyzed by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry for ephedrine and caffeine concentrations. Heart rate, blood pressure, and subjective responses were recorded. Serum hormonal and metabolic markers were serially measured during a 3-hour fasting period. RESULTS: Ephedrine plus caffeine increased systolic blood pressure (peak difference, 11.7 +/- 9.4 mm Hg; compared with placebo, P =.0005) and heart rate (peak difference, 5.9 +/- 8.8 beats/min; compared with placebo, P =.001) and raised fasting glucose, insulin, free fatty acid, and lactate concentrations. Ephedrine alone increased heart rate and glucose and insulin concentrations but did not affect systolic blood pressure. Caffeine increased systolic blood pressure and plasma free fatty acid and urinary epinephrine concentrations but did not increase heart rate. Compared with ephedrine, caffeine produced more subjective stimulant effects. Clinically significant pharmacokinetic interactions between ephedrine and caffeine were not observed. Women taking oral contraceptives had prolonged caffeine elimination (mean elimination half-life, 9.7 hours versus 5.0 hours in men; P =.05), but sex differences in pharmacodynamic responses were not seen. CONCLUSIONS: The individual effects of ephedrine and caffeine were modest, but the drugs in combination produced significant cardiovascular, metabolic, and hormonal responses. These enhanced effects appear to be a result of pharmacodynamic rather than pharmacokinetic interactions.

PMID: 15060505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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^^pulled this form Tnation. I have heard about this before. Now I know the aspirin may help with the spikes in cystolic BP but does anyone think the increases in blood glucose while using EC/ECA is something to worry about. (non diabetics?)

[datBtrue]

...does anyone think the increases in blood glucose while using EC/ECA is something to worry about...

For the last two days I've been using my glucose monitor to check my blood glucose after ingestion of coffee.

• Black coffee w/ no additives = zero rise in glucose
• Black coffee w/ Stevia = a 2 point rise in glucose
• Black coffee w/ Splenda = a 5 - 8 point rise in glucose.
• Coffee w/ Splenda & generic Coffee Mate creamer = 15+ point rise in glucose
• Coffee w/ Splenda & 2% Lactose free Milk = 17+ point rise in glucose

The take home message for you is that caffeine in a cup of coffee does not effect blood glucose BUT the additives sure as heck do!

How do you reduce the rise in blood glucose w/ these additives (besides the obvious)? ....add FIBER.

So ingesting 2 grams of Psyllium Husk powder just prior to drinking Coffee w/ Splenda & Coffee Mate creamer resulted in only a 4 point rise in blood glucose. WOW!

I have never done any monitoring of blood glucose after taking ephedrine or ephedrine+caffeine but I don't imagine that it would be that high. But if it were or if it is a concern of yours add FIBER and it should reduce the blood glucose spike.

[pudzian2]

For the last two days I've been using my glucose monitor to check my blood glucose after ingestion of coffee.

• Black coffee w/ no additives = zero rise in glucose
• Black coffee w/ Stevia = a 2 point rise in glucose
• Black coffee w/ Splenda = a 5 - 8 point rise in glucose.
• Coffee w/ Splenda & generic Coffee Mate creamer = 15+ point rise in glucose
• Coffee w/ Splenda & 2% Lactose free Milk = 17+ point rise in glucose

The take home message for you is that caffeine in a cup of coffee does not effect blood glucose BUT the additives sure as heck do!

How do you reduce the rise in blood glucose w/ these additives (besides the obvious)? ....add FIBER.

So ingesting 2 grams of Psyllium Husk powder just prior to drinking Coffee w/ Splenda & Coffee Mate creamer resulted in only a 4 point rise in blood glucose. WOW!

I have never done any monitoring of blood glucose after taking ephedrine or ephedrine+caffeine but I don't imagine that it would be that high. But if it were or if it is a concern of yours add FIBER and it should reduce the blood glucose spike.

thats very interesting..... I will do that. But I thought that the issue was that ephedrine and caffeine were KEEPING blood glucose elevated for some reason.... I really dont think its something I will worry about to any large degree. But just an inquiry.

hey dat,

have you ever measured the blood glucose response to BCAA or the popular BCAA product Xtend.? that would be interesting to note considering many including myself sip on it throughout the day.

[datBtrue]

...
have you ever measured the blood glucose response to BCAA or the popular BCAA product Xtend.? that would be interesting to note considering many including myself sip on it throughout the day.

No I haven't but I did discover that Xtend negated the "weight loss" effect of VS taken at night.

I love to sip on coffee though...so that was my motivation for breaking out the glucose monitor and torturing my finger tips.

[Nitrox]

The additives in the coffee are contributing to a BG increase because they contribute positive calories. I thought that Stevia was zero calorie however a 2 pt change on a ng/dL scale could just be error. Splenda contains maltodextrin.

Ephedrine, on the other hand is related to adrenaline, which triggers glucose release. Caffeine does not.

[pudzian2]

The additives in the coffee are contributing to a BG increase because they contribute positive calories. I thought that Stevia was zero calorie however a 2 pt change on a ng/dL scale could just be error. Splenda contains maltodextrin.

Ephedrine, on the other hand is related to adrenaline, which triggers glucose release. Caffeine does not.

right I was aware that ephedrine was the cause of BG rise, but what Im asking is whether or not its something to worry about? and what steps should be taken to control this? I think the aspirin play some role....not sure. I suppose the use of chromium and vanadyl sulfate could help dispose of extra BG

[LakeMountD]

For the last two days I've been using my glucose monitor to check my blood glucose after ingestion of coffee.

• Black coffee w/ no additives = zero rise in glucose
• Black coffee w/ Stevia = a 2 point rise in glucose
• Black coffee w/ Splenda = a 5 - 8 point rise in glucose.
• Coffee w/ Splenda & generic Coffee Mate creamer = 15+ point rise in glucose
• Coffee w/ Splenda & 2% Lactose free Milk = 17+ point rise in glucose

The take home message for you is that caffeine in a cup of coffee does not effect blood glucose BUT the additives sure as heck do!

How do you reduce the rise in blood glucose w/ these additives (besides the obvious)? ....add FIBER.

So ingesting 2 grams of Psyllium Husk powder just prior to drinking Coffee w/ Splenda & Coffee Mate creamer resulted in only a 4 point rise in blood glucose. WOW!

I have never done any monitoring of blood glucose after taking ephedrine or ephedrine+caffeine but I don't imagine that it would be that high. But if it were or if it is a concern of yours add FIBER and it should reduce the blood glucose spike.

Honestly this would depend on amount of coffee, a person's insulin resistance, and the time period by which you measured this. Any stimulant such as caffeine is going to cause an increase in blood glucose. It increases norepinephrine, which is what gives you the fight or flight feeling and rapid heart rate. The sympathetic nervous system takes over and blood vessels in most organs such as the stomach and places like the penis restrict, while the blood vessels to the brain and skeletal muscles dilate. This is what causes that spike in blood pressure, the contraction of many of the blood vessels not important to fight or flight.

[Neil5585]

Glucophage XR, aka extended release metformin HCl can help control blood glucose levels by reducing an increase in BG from breaking down glycogen.

A coffee berry extract does this, too. I've seen it offered through Life Extension.

[pudzian2]

Glucophage XR, or extended release metformin HCl can help control blood glucose levels by reducing an increase in BG from breaking down glycogen.

A coffee berry extract does this, too. I've seen it offered through Life Extension.

very interesting. You have a link?

[Neil5585]

http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/Ms...ry%20coffee%20

[Nitrox]

right I was aware that ephedrine was the cause of BG rise, but what Im asking is whether or not its something to worry about? and what steps should be taken to control this? I think the aspirin play some role....not sure. I suppose the use of chromium and vanadyl sulfate could help dispose of extra BG

I am confused. Why is it that you want to use a product to lower high BG caused by taking another product?

Drop the ephedrine and use coffee in moderation. Problem solved and your body will probably thank you for it.

[datBtrue]

The additives in the coffee are contributing to a BG increase because they contribute positive calories. I thought that Stevia was zero calorie however a 2 pt change on a ng/dL scale could just be error. Splenda contains maltodextrin.

Ephedrine, on the other hand is related to adrenaline, which triggers glucose release. Caffeine does not.

Nitrox I always enjoy reading your posts especially when it pertains to insulin & blood sugar. I appreciate you bro.

[datBtrue]

Honestly this would depend on amount of coffee, a person's insulin resistance, and the time period by which you measured this. Any stimulant such as caffeine is going to cause an increase in blood glucose. It increases norepinephrine, which is what gives you the fight or flight feeling and rapid heart rate. The sympathetic nervous system takes over and blood vessels in most organs such as the stomach and places like the penis restrict, while the blood vessels to the brain and skeletal muscles dilate. This is what causes that spike in blood pressure, the contraction of many of the blood vessels not important to fight or flight.

Thanks Lake...very informative post as usual...much appreciated.

My tests were more about the additives then the caffeine. However as a non-diabetic a cup of black coffee has zero effect on my blood glucose...in fact in moderation (say 4 spaced out cups a day) it has zero effect on my blood glucose. This is from multiple testing of coffee ingestion at least an hour after a meal.

I would be surprised if moderate black coffee drinking effected glucose levels in others...at least to any significant degree.

[LakeMountD]

Thanks Lake...very informative post as usual...much appreciated.

My tests were more about the additives then the caffeine. However as a non-diabetic a cup of black coffee has zero effect on my blood glucose...in fact in moderation (say 4 spaced out cups a day) it has zero effect on my blood glucose. This is from multiple testing of coffee ingestion at least an hour after a meal.

I would be surprised if moderate black coffee drinking effected glucose levels in others...at least to any significant degree.

Yeah, I just wanted to point out to everyone that theoretically this is how they work, etc. It is going to effect everyone differently and I agree that it needs to be done in moderation. It is interesting to see the spikes in insulin though from such minute amounts of additives lol. People take note .


Nitrox is absolutely right that your body will thank you for it!

[datBtrue]

...It is interesting to see the spikes in insulin though from such minute amounts of additives lol. People take note .

EXACTLY...this is important to know, especially if you are dieting. The following is what prompted me to check blood sugar...as I was intermittently fasting and drinking a cup of coffee...

From the textbook Biochemical and Physiological Aspects of Human Nutrition, Stipanuk et al. ed. 2000

Insulin ...is secreted in response to changes in circulating glucose; a change of as little as 2mg/100ml of plasma can be detected by the pancreas. Insulin release can also be stimulated in response to certain amino acids in the circulation. Other important signals for insulin secretion include gut hormones and nervous stimulation. - p395

In adipose tissue insulin increases fatty acid uptake and triacylglycerol storage via increases in lipoprotein lipase activity, and at the same time decreases lipolysis by decreasing hormone-sensitive lipase activity. The latter may be one of insulin's strongest actions because it occurs at very low insulin levels and effectively lowers the levels of free fatty acids in the circulation thereby decreasing there utilization as fuel. - p396

[LakeMountD]

In adipose tissue insulin increases fatty acid uptake and triacylglycerol storage via increases in lipoprotein lipase activity, [/B] - p396[/INDENT]

This is actually the interesting part of IGF-1, is that it binds to insulin receptors, yet not to adipose tissue.

But very interesting read.

[datBtrue]

The use of fiber probably has no effect on glucose triggered by ephedrine or large amounts of caffeine but it will if used w/ food that triggers glucose rise.

Again from the textbook Biochemical and Physiological Aspects of Human Nutrition, Stipanuk et al. ed. 2000

Soluable viscous polysaccharides [certain fibers] can delay and even interfere with the absorption of nutrients...

Positive benefits of delayed nutrient absorption include an improvement of glucose tolerance and a lowering of serum cholesterol levels. Delayed absorption of carbohydrates results in a lower postprandial (following a meal) glucose level. In general the more viscous the fiber the greater the effect on blood glucose. This is similiar to the effect seen with eating several small meals rather than one large meal. When glucose is absorbed in small amounts over an extended period, such as seen with viscous fibers, the insulin response is attenuated (Pick, et al. (1996) Oat bran concentrate bread products improve long term control of diabetes: A pilot study J. Am Diet Assoc 96:1254-1261)

...

Viscosity of the polysaccharides and their ability to form gels in the stomach appear to slow gastric emptying. This in turn results in a more uniform presentation of the meal to the small intestine for absorption. [Poorly soluable fibers that do not form gels such as wheat and cellulose have little effect...unlike those that do which include guar gum, pectin, psyllium, oat bran.] - p146. 147

[datBtrue]

This is actually the interesting part of IGF-1, is that it binds to insulin receptors, yet not to adipose tissue.

YES. And THAT is what I have argued IS the primary benefit of IGF-1. Thats why I like a dosing protocol of 10mcg per day run for long periods of time.

[LakeMountD]

YES. And THAT is what I have argued IS the primary benefit of IGF-1. Thats why I like a dosing protocol of 10mcg per day run for long periods of time.

Yeah I have been advocating lower dosages for longer periods for the last two years on this board. I don't think my sticky post is up anymore but I had written a 10 page article on that because I was sick of seeing people take such high dosages. It is a great way to keep BG down and prevent fat gain but beyond that it isn't anything amazing.

[pudzian2]

Yeah I have been advocating lower dosages for longer periods for the last two years on this board. I don't think my sticky post is up anymore but I had written a 10 page article on that because I was sick of seeing people take such high dosages. It is a great way to keep BG down and prevent fat gain but beyond that it isn't anything amazing.

I have found IGF-1 when NOT used in conjunction with other peptides like pegMGF usuefull for exactly what you mentioned above, as well as its connective tissue healing abilities. I notice also that my finger and toe nails grow noticeably faster even when on 10mcg EOD to E3D.....

for keeping blood glucose down to prevent fat gain I think I would respond better to 10mcg ED. the E3D seems to inconsistent for my body. to each his own