Anabolic diet/keto a good diet for me?

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    Anabolic diet/keto a good diet for me?


    My first priority is good health, heart health specifically. Do you feel either of these diets are healthy?


    I'm open to completely changing my views on what eating healthy means, its just a hell of a leap of faith to go from where I am to where these diets take you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    My first priority is good health, heart health specifically. Do you feel either of these diets are healthy?


    I'm open to completely changing my views on what eating healthy means, its just a hell of a leap of faith to go from where I am to where these diets take you.
    pm me your e-mail and I'll try to send you the pdf file on these type of diets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    pm me your e-mail and I'll try to send you the pdf file on these type of diets.
    I have the anabolic diet pdf.

    Do you have the metabolic diet or anabolic solution or even radical diet pdf's? If so, I'll trade something.
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    I started the anabolic diet yesterday. This could not be further removed from my natural diet (which had absolutely no meat in it, just fish). I hope it is as effective as they say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    I started the anabolic diet yesterday. This could not be further removed from my natural diet (which had absolutely no meat in it, just fish). I hope it is as effective as they say.
    It's only as effective as you make it. If you follow the rules and tailor it to yourself, it will be effective.

    What is your goal?
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    ahh yes we've got some fresh blood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    I started the anabolic diet yesterday. This could not be further removed from my natural diet (which had absolutely no meat in it, just fish). I hope it is as effective as they say.
    Seems like you're in the same position I was in, doing a complete switcharoo with you're diet. I came from the supposedly "heart healthy" recommendation of 60% carbs, 20% fat, 15% protein to the AD overnight. Welcome to the club!
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    My first priority is good health, heart health specifically. Do you feel either of these diets are healthy?


    I'm open to completely changing my views on what eating healthy means, its just a hell of a leap of faith to go from where I am to where these diets take you.
    Ketogenic diet = very unhealthy. Anabolic Diet = very healthy lifestyle. Get your bloodwork done if you can. You should see your total cholesterol go down, HDL go up, LDL go down, and triglycerides should go down as well. If done properly, this diet is extremely heart healthy.
    Last edited by Botch; 01-21-2008 at 04:32 PM. Reason: adding more
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    I would be interested in a pdf on the Anabolic diet if someone wouldn't mind.
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    Come on guys show some lovin for Dr. Di Pasquale and fork out the cash for the book! It is certainly worth the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Come on guys show some lovin for Dr. Di Pasquale and fork out the cash for the book! It is certainly worth the money.
    I'll pay him when I can afford it, lol.
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    Working well for me so far..

    I was at about 2months eating 3500-4k cals. I went from about 188 to 198, with minimal fat gain. When eating a higher carb diet, i gain fat much faster.

    Strength continued to climb throughout the 2 months.

    Best part is i FEEL much better..

    I used to walk around like a bloated mess. Gas all the time, etc.. Now i feel so much better, no gas, good energy.

    I will continue to eat like this for the rest of the winter/spring, then use the AD principles to cut.

    Good luck with everything.
    Last edited by Frank Reynolds; 01-21-2008 at 10:43 PM.
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    ok, it wants me to eat 180x18=3240, that is truly insane. I stuffed my face today and managed about 2900. In fact I'm trying to stuff down a protein shake with olive oil even though its bed time.

    I don't think 2900 is too far off, and according to one other website, its ok to be at BWx16 depending on body type. My net carbs were at 29, was happy I could fit in some blueberries post workout.


    Here is my breakdown:

    breakfast: 4 eggs with cheese and garlic

    lunch: 8 ounce steak with 2c broccoli

    post lunch: 1 bubba angus burger with cheddar

    preworkout: 2 ounces emmental cheese

    postworkout: low carb soy milk with whey, 1/2c blueberries, and cinnamon, and 2 Tblsp flax meal for fiber.

    dinner: 6oz salmon steak, 4cups spinach w/olive oil and vinegar, 2cups broccoli

    latenight: whey in water, with 1 tblspoon olive oil


    ---------grams------cals-----%total
    Total: --2890
    Fat:------208--------1841-----65%
    --Sat: ---62 ----------555------21%
    Carbs:---51-----------115------4%
    --Fiber:---22 -----------0-------0%
    Protein:---215-------860------31%




    Workout today was a little tough halfway through. I got light headed easier, and got really tired.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Seems like you're in the same position I was in, doing a complete switcharoo with you're diet. I came from the supposedly "heart healthy" recommendation of 60% carbs, 20% fat, 15% protein to the AD overnight. Welcome to the club!
    Yes, this is a COMPLETE lifestyle change for me. I've been partial/full vegetarian for 7 years (partial meaning I started eating fish about 2 years ago). My friends are in shock...and so am I. I had no clue how to buy a steak...or any red meat for that matter, it was an interesting shopping trip

    After doing a lot of reading I decided my high carb lifestyle probably wasn't too healthy. The science behind this diet seems sound, and I'm going to go get blood tests done in about 2 months to keep up on things.


    I got my bloodwork done a few months ago, so I'm set. My tris were high, HDL slightly low, and LDL slightly high....everything this diet should correct!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    It's only as effective as you make it. If you follow the rules and tailor it to yourself, it will be effective.

    What is your goal?
    Get healthier, leaner, and stronger.


    one good thing this diet will do is force me to cut out any weekday beers, which between that and pizza is my ultimate sin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    Get healthier, leaner, and stronger.


    one good thing this diet will do is force me to cut out any weekday beers, which between that and pizza is my ultimate sin.
    No the best part is you DONT have to cut them out!!!! During your weekend carb load a slice of apizza and a few beers is OK. Just dont carry it overboard
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    i just had my first carbload this past weekend. i had oatmeal, bagels, ice cream, pizza, and muffins. i think i had a little too much carbs and smoothed out just a little. come this morning i look leaner then i did on friday. so if you do go a little overboard don't worry too much within a couple days you"ll have ur definition back. Now i know next weekend to lower my carb intake a little bit.
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    Should I push the carb load out to 12 days for the intro phase or just stick to the 5/2 program?
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    I Personally would stretch it to 12 days. I had no lethargy or experienced any carb depleted symptoms. I felt great. i had tons of energy
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    My appetite is up, I'm able to get over 3000 calories now. I was really cranky last night after the gym, my wife could do no right, not that she was doing anything right


    that was a joke...wife don't kill me.



    I'm having lots of dreams. I did a google search and it looks like that might be a part of the transition phase.


    My skin seems to be clearing up a lot. Way too early to call this one, but I'm crossing my fingers.



    I still haven't decided if I'm going to carb up this weekend or not. I'm starting to crave a beer, so I might hit some fruit and some homebrew saturday night. I might also just open a log.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    ok, it wants me to eat 180x18=3240, that is truly insane. I stuffed my face today and managed about 2900. In fact I'm trying to stuff down a protein shake with olive oil even though its bed time.

    I don't think 2900 is too far off, and according to one other website, its ok to be at BWx16 depending on body type. My net carbs were at 29, was happy I could fit in some blueberries post workout.


    Here is my breakdown:

    breakfast: 4 eggs with cheese and garlic

    lunch: 8 ounce steak with 2c broccoli

    post lunch: 1 bubba angus burger with cheddar

    preworkout: 2 ounces emmental cheese

    postworkout: low carb soy milk with whey, 1/2c blueberries, and cinnamon, and 2 Tblsp flax meal for fiber.

    dinner: 6oz salmon steak, 4cups spinach w/olive oil and vinegar, 2cups broccoli

    latenight: whey in water, with 1 tblspoon olive oil


    ---------grams------cals-----%total
    Total: --2890
    Fat:------208--------1841-----65%
    --Sat: ---62 ----------555------21%
    Carbs:---51-----------115------4%
    --Fiber:---22 -----------0-------0%
    Protein:---215-------860------31%




    Workout today was a little tough halfway through. I got light headed easier, and got really tired.
    Your maintainance cals may be anywhere from 15x bodyweight to 18x depending on the person so don't worry if you can't hit the 3000 mark. Carbs look a bit high, they should be kept as close to 0 as possible during the assessment phase (but anything under 30g is fine). Nevermind, I just reread and I see that you are counting fiber along with your carbs so everything looks good there. Also, you should apt for 1g of EPA/DHA per day which for most fish oil brands would be roughly 10 caps per day. Other than that you have some choice foods up there and I'm jealous that you have all that delicious meat on your weekday menu.
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    Well the Anabolic Diet is very dated. The newer version, The Metabolic is much better and includes a lot more information about tweaking the diet for you personally. Also the companion website helps a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Your maintainance cals may be anywhere from 15x bodyweight to 18x depending on the person so don't worry if you can't hit the 3000 mark. Carbs look a bit high, they should be kept as close to 0 as possible during the assessment phase (but anything under 30g is fine). Nevermind, I just reread and I see that you are counting fiber along with your carbs so everything looks good there. Also, you should apt for 1g of EPA/DHA per day which for most fish oil brands would be roughly 10 caps per day. Other than that you have some choice foods up there and I'm jealous that you have all that delicious meat on your weekday menu.
    thanks for the feedback! I do take 10 1g fish caps a day actually, just didn't include it in the diet layout. After that first day or two I found my appetite increase a huge amount, it got to hte point where I would be hungry half an hour after a steak, very weird.

    Last night started my first carb load, going into today. Definitely felt that carb syndrome of feeling sleepy.

    I'll keep in mind your comments about aiming for very low carbs while still in the transition phase, and I'll make sure not to add in any extras for the first 3 weeks or so.


    Started a log
    anabolic diet and westside4skinny bastards with johnyq
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Well the Anabolic Diet is very dated. The newer version, The Metabolic is much better and includes a lot more information about tweaking the diet for you personally. Also the companion website helps a lot.
    I read around here that not a lot changed, but I'll look into it, thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnyq View Post
    I read around here that not a lot changed, but I'll look into it, thanks!

    I don't know about that. Anabolic Diet was published in 1994!.
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    Do you guys carb load immediately after fridays workout, or do you wait until saturday?
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    You can carb load anywhere from 24-48 hours depending on the person. For me while bulking 36 hours is perfect. And 36 hours is PLENTY of time for most people. Typically I'll start on Saturday morning and end on Sunday evening. I've done 48 hours before but it was too much for me considering I eat a good amount of carbs whenever I load.
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    It seems logical that the more bodyfat you have the shorter the refeed.

    So maybe something like:


    >20% 8 hours
    15-20% 12 hours
    12-15% 24 hours
    8-12% 24-26 hours



    It's not set in stone, but the common theme seems to be shorter refeeds for higher BF.


    I've also switched to 90% clean sources, like oatmeal, blueberries (limited to 1 cup), brown rice, whole grain pasta, ezikiel breads, etc.
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    Good post CryingEmo. I agree that if you're trying to lose bodyfat then the 36 hour carb up is certainly not optimal. When cutting I stick to carbing up either one day a week (say half-day to all day saturday) or a split like Wed/Sat where the last 1-2 meals of the night are high carb meals.
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    IMO the leaner you are the more you need the more drastic carb ups to maintain leptin levels. Fatties don't need that since they already have high leptin levels.

    I think it's a good idea to match carb sources to your current bodyfat. If you're fat, I'd use lower GI sources like oats, sprouted breads, yams, etc. If you're very lean, white rice, mashed white potatoes, and things like that would be good.
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    The reason I asked is because I believe in bodyopus he has you carb refeeding immediately after the friday workout. He even does some odd "glycogen depletion" workout on friday, with high reps low weight. I kind of prefer the saturday to sunday refeed with the idea it builds glycogen reserves for the weeks workouts, but bodyopus had some interesting thoughts on the matter (glycogen supersaturation?).

    This is where I read about that:
    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Lyle McDonald BodyOpus Pages

    Lyle McDonald did a week by week (even blow by blow) report of a twenty week BodyOpus experience.
    He originally posted them on misc.fitness.weights. They are here

    He also summarized them in a FAQ

    And he has written a technical paper about Cyclical Ketogenic Diets Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

    Lyle's bodyfat measurement instructions


    I started my refeed saturday night, and finished sunday night. I'm slightly fat, probably 14-17% BF as a guess. I have plenty of pictures in logs floating around.



    Todays energy levels at the gym were through the roof, and I crushed some PRs. I hope this is a trend!
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    There's far more to carb refeeds than glycogen storage. It's part of a whole anabolic cascade of hormones and boosting of metabolism.

    Has anyone ever noticed on a cut, you cheat eating all kinds of **** for a day, then within a week you've dropped quite a bit of fat? I'm honestly not up on all the exact hormonal cascades, but I know insulin, growth hormone (yes at the same time as insulin in this case), leptin, protein synthesis, glycogen supercompensation, intramuscular triglycerides, etc. I think it's a mistake to base it all around glycogen storage. I personally find carb loads to be more productive on off days from the gym.
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    My math may be messed up here, but when you guys are saying 36 hour carb loads (like in Botch's example) and it goes from say 9 a.m. Saturday and then to 9 p.m. Sunday isn't that 24 hours? So that is a two day carb-up or are you basically going by days and a 24 hour carb-up would just be Saturday? Forgive me if that is a stupid question as I'm still fairly new at this.
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    9am sat-9am sunday is 24gr add 12hrs to that and go til 9pm sunday then you get 36, like Botch was talking about
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    Ah, my math did stink. I just worked that out in my head also. One more question for anyone. Do you shoot for a certain amount of carbs on weekends? I have been going over by 250 calories from my week day cals and switching ratios around like stated in the book.
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