Poll: Best macronutrient split for LEAN MASS/BODYBUILDING?

Best macronutrient split for LEAN MASS/ BODYBUILDING

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    Best macronutrient split for LEAN MASS/ BODYBUILDING


    in your opinion, which is the best split? i added the middle two just so that there'd be more of a selection, but it's really a choice between 40/40/20 and 33/33/33 IMO. From what I've heard from others, the latter is supposedly ideal for bodybuilding and encouraging lean mass, but I haven't heard anything of this theory myself. I'm not interested in bulking persay. Simply acquiring totally lean, pure mass gains. What do you think?

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    Well it really depends...lean mass diet and bodybuilding diets are not the same.

    Also, different people put this ratios in different orders, so what exactly did you mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    Well it really depends...lean mass diet and bodybuilding diets are not the same.

    Also, different people put this ratios in different orders, so what exactly did you mean?
    I guess my question was more concerned with finding a hybrid between the two? I know that being a bodybuilder requres a constant changing diet of different portions, since there are so many goals and aspects of the sport.

    But as a bodybuilder, if you weren't interested in heavy mass bulking at the moment and wanted to lean out gradually, while maintaining muscle mass and STILL gaining lean mass, which macronutrient split would be ideal for accomplishing that?

    33/33/33 seems interesting. cept where's the other 1 %? haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebab View Post
    I guess my question was more concerned with finding a hybrid between the two? I know that being a bodybuilder requres a constant changing diet of different portions, since there are so many goals and aspects of the sport.

    But as a bodybuilder, if you weren't interested in heavy mass bulking at the moment and wanted to lean out gradually, while maintaining muscle mass and STILL gaining lean mass, which macronutrient split would be ideal for accomplishing that?

    33/33/33 seems interesting. cept where's the other 1 %? haha

    No, I think he meant different people put the order of those percentages differently.

    For instance a 40/40/20 split to one person might be protein/carbs/fat. While to another person it might be protein/fat/carbs.

    Big difference.
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    I meant both.

    But thanks for the clarification.

    I personally use 50P/35C/15F and see decent gains while keeping lean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    No, I think he meant different people put the order of those percentages differently.

    For instance a 40/40/20 split to one person might be protein/carbs/fat. While to another person it might be protein/fat/carbs.

    Big difference.
    Ohhhh. yeah alright. i know, that's a huge difference. i should have clarified the order in the beginning.

    i always assume a protein/ carb/ fat split. i guess different people have different interpretations of that, but for the purposes of this discussion that was the order I was inferring.

    but this opens up some good discussion, since by that logic there are countless different splits you can have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    I meant both.

    But thanks for the clarification.

    I personally use 50P/35C/15F and see decent gains while keeping lean.
    that sounds pretty reasonable. i usually stick with 40/40/20 myself, but were I to work on cutting and gaining lean mass that's a split i might wanna try.
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    I see people say 40/40/20 which I am usually at about that.

    But then I see people say that 500 grams of protein is WAY too much. Well if you need 5000 cals a day how you going to do the 40/40/20?


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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    I meant both.

    But thanks for the clarification.

    I personally use 50P/35C/15F and see decent gains while keeping lean.
    I agree, For myself to stay real lean I have to eat at about this split to put on lean mass or when dieting.

    I bulk w/ a 40/40/20 to kinda stay lean, only adding maybe a 1/2" to my waist and .5 or 1% BF over about 6-8 weeks.

    For an all out bulk (winter time when i never take my shirt off) I follow about a 30/50/20 split
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    I pray for the day where 33/34/33 becomes the way to go.
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    For cutting I like 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fat
    Bulking/Recomp I like 40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat
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    I don't really like using percentages. I'll quasi quote something from alan aragon's book. He suggests assigning fairly constant numbers for protein and fat (atleast 1 gram of protein per pound of target body weight and .4-.5 grams of fat per pound of tar. bdy. weight). Then however many calories you are trying to consume after that, you fill with carbs. So basically, what you are trying to do body composition wise determines how many carbs you eat; this makes the most sense to me.
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    One should never go below 40% carbohydrates to lose bodyfat. A certain amount of carbohydrate is needed in the diet to effectively burn fat as fuel. Carbohydrates are the "primer" for igniting the fat burning process.

    I like 40/30/30 (C,P,F) split. If your cutting carbs you will need fat in your diet to keep your calories up and prevent muscle wasting.
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    In my opinion, there's no evidence that one should not get below 40% carbohydrates. The choice of your macronutrient ratio depends on your body's ability to handle carbohydrates. Some people react extremely well to low carb diets, ( Think about the anabolic diet, worked great for a lot of people) and some other people just cannot stand those diets.

    I honestly think that there is no such "perfect" ratio that would fit everyone. It's up to one to experiment and find the ratio that fits with his/her body.

    I use a 33/33/33 ratio for workout days and I lower the carbohydrates on non-trainning days.
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    i think splits should be goal-oriented. if you're bulking, you're most likely going to opt for a split that loads up on carbs and healthy fats, while maintaining a high protein intake. if you're eating simply to maintain and accrue lean mass, 40/40/20 is probably your best bet. likewise, 50/35/15 or something along those lines is ideal for cutting.
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    I like 40/40/20 personally.
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    I tend to go a little lower carb... So MINE looks more like 50/30/20... or maybe 50/35/15.....

    I know i know... i'm crazy... i just HATE those DAMN love handles and have worked WAY to hard to get rid of them! LOL I won't put on QUITE as much gains quite as quickly.. but it seems to put on about 4lbs a month of LEAN SOLID mass if i am dedicated to it...

    ALSO... if i am on a ProHormone cyce or something... i will up the carbs a little more... BUt thats about the only time..
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    I would have to say that there is no magic ratio for putting on lean mass, as every individuals metabolism and hormones are different and react differently to what they eat. however, there are certain ratios that promote fat loss, lean gains, etc. It is up to each individual to attempt to find what is right for them by tracking their body's reaction to the foods that are being eaten, ie energy levels, fat gains, lbm gains. For instance, you will find no definitive solution for yourself through this thread. You will have to try out 40/40/20 macros, 45/35/20 macros, etc. The only way you will find out is by listening to what the body tells you.

    with that being said I gain real well with an approx. 45P/35C/20F
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    Quote Originally Posted by vgenest66 View Post
    In my opinion, there's no evidence that one should not get below 40% carbohydrates. The choice of your macronutrient ratio depends on your body's ability to handle carbohydrates. Some people react extremely well to low carb diets, ( Think about the anabolic diet, worked great for a lot of people) and some other people just cannot stand those diets.

    I honestly think that there is no such "perfect" ratio that would fit everyone. It's up to one to experiment and find the ratio that fits with his/her body.

    I use a 33/33/33 ratio for workout days and I lower the carbohydrates on non-trainning days.
    Actually...there is quite a bit of evidence supporting the fact that going below 40% CHO's for prolonged periods can be detrimental to health. Not only from lack of essential nutrients often contained within CHO sources, but also from high amounts of overall and saturated fats. The problem with the evidence is that no LONG TERM studies have been conducted on the risks associated with high protein, high fat diets. However, research conducted on diets moderate to high in CHO's has shown increased health benefits when combined with exercise and an overall healthy lifestyle. Adoption of macronutrient ratios should not be used soley as a means to changing physical appearance. It should also be considered when thinking about long term health implications. Maintaining a low CHO intake means increasing protein and fat to maintain adequate intake. Excessive protein and fat intake can and will eventually lead to health problems if maintained, especially if your genetically pre-disposed.

    In my opinion, low CHO diets are for people who want to alter body composition with minimal effort.
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    my diet today consists of alternating between a high carb, low carb split. in conjunction with a three day DC program, higher carbs on training days, low carbs (max = 1 g per lb) on off days w cardio. so far i've found this type of diet split to be effective. i'm leaning out and making gains simultaneously. to be practical, i think it's a waste of energy to count calories and follow EXACT macro splits. to have a macro split, you need to know your ideal caloric range and go from there, but it's better just to go by feel with every meal and go by what you see in the mirror from day to day I think. as an example, if you're looking to do a lean bulk per se, don't go overboard with the carbs at each meal. i'd say eat anywhere between 20 and 60, always keep the protein high, or alternate between low carb/ high fat meals and high carb meals.

    case in point, progress is very feasible without the added stress of dieting to a T and counting every calorie
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    In theory, protein is the macro that is least likely to be stored as fat, followed by carbohydrate. Fat is the macro that is most likely to be stored as fat. Conversion requires energy and the body does not like to waste it. Consequently a lean mass macro combination will be high in protein, moderate in carbs, and low in fat.

    The downside is that protein is an inefficient energy source. Strength and total muscle gains are usually better with a more balanced ratio.

    As always, this argument is only valid for comparable calorie intakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    In theory, protein is the macro that is least likely to be stored as fat, followed by carbohydrate. Fat is the macro that is most likely to be stored as fat. Conversion requires energy and the body does not like to waste it. Consequently a lean mass macro combination will be high in protein, moderate in carbs, and low in fat.

    The downside is that protein is an inefficient energy source. Strength and total muscle gains are usually better with a more balanced ratio.

    As always, this argument is only valid for comparable calorie intakes.
    agreed. i've again tweaked my diet since my last post here. i guess you could say i'm still carb cycling... somewhat, but my diet doesn't exactly follow a particular plan per se. like any diet meant to encourage lean mass, my diet's relatively high in protein (1.5 times lean body mass, which is about 170ish). So I take in about 260 grams of protein per day, with about 220 or so grams of carbs on training days and around 70 grams of fat. on non-training/ cardio days, i try to limit carbs to around 150 grams while keeping fats and protein static. i also keep my carbs to morning/ afternoon to fill my glycogen stores and have replaced evening carbs w veggies. so far i've lost 15 lbs and my size hasn't deflated by much haha. grant it, there's been some loss of size but I consider this a necessary evil for toning up the midsection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebab View Post
    agreed. i've again tweaked my diet since my last post here. i guess you could say i'm still carb cycling... somewhat, but my diet doesn't exactly follow a particular plan per se. like any diet meant to encourage lean mass, my diet's relatively high in protein (1.5 times lean body mass, which is about 170ish). So I take in about 260 grams of protein per day, with about 220 or so grams of carbs on training days and around 70 grams of fat. on non-training/ cardio days, i try to limit carbs to around 150 grams while keeping fats and protein static. i also keep my carbs to morning/ afternoon to fill my glycogen stores and have replaced evening carbs w veggies. so far i've lost 15 lbs and my size hasn't deflated by much haha. grant it, there's been some loss of size but I consider this a necessary evil for toning up the midsection.
    I know for my self when cutting I don't need to lower my carbs much at all. I still keep a 40/40/20 split. As mentioned already using protein as your main energy source is not just inefficient but expensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelEntity View Post
    I know for my self when cutting I don't need to lower my carbs much at all. I still keep a 40/40/20 split. As mentioned already using protein as your main energy source is not just inefficient but expensive.
    yeah this is true. i've found that if i go super low carb i feel fatigued and flat... not good. for a true recomp i'm a proponent of dieting down slowly over time to preserve as much muscle mass as possible, while slowly burning fat if not encouraging lean mass gains. it's important to figure out your ideal macro range for maintenance, however, before beginning such a diet. this way you have an optimal starting point and can make adjustments from that baseline.

    for the longest time, my problem was that i was having way too much of every macro. not necessarily bad for bulking purposes, but otherwise not for looking good lol. my protein count was 1.5 times my total body weight, fat included, and my carbs were upwards of 400 g per day. fats i didn't even count. needless to say, since i re-calculated and lowered everything, i've very much liked the results.
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    For all the fat haters please post sources...

    My diet consists of 35P/5C/60F
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    I like 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by terracotta View Post
    I like 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat.
    is that zone diet. i saw it and started doing something similar, 40%protein, 30%carb, 30%fat, i didn't like the carbs being higher than my protein
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaArtois View Post
    is that zone diet. i saw it and started doing something similar, 40%protein, 30%carb, 30%fat, i didn't like the carbs being higher than my protein
    It might be the zone diet. I used to use 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat, and have recently lowered carbs for more fats. I do well with high carbs.
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    question about calories, im at about 2450 calories per day, and still can't lose stubborn weight around lower love handle area, should i go lower? im doing 40/30/30 but the thing is i see lots of guys on here bulking on 4k calories and cutting around 2600, and if i did that i would never lose weight, but then again looking at those figures i get scared to cut my calories and don't want to lose muscle mass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaArtois View Post
    question about calories, im at about 2450 calories per day, and still can't lose stubborn weight around lower love handle area, should i go lower? im doing 40/30/30 but the thing is i see lots of guys on here bulking on 4k calories and cutting around 2600, and if i did that i would never lose weight, but then again looking at those figures i get scared to cut my calories and don't want to lose muscle mass.

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    You need to cut based on your body. An ectomorph can cut using higher calories as their BMRs are faster. I suggest dropping the calories to 10x bodyweight, ie. 2000 cals per day. Have a refeed day (higher carbs) at least once a week. I suggest adding 500 cals extra in carbs on that day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by terracotta View Post
    You need to cut based on your body. An ectomorph can cut using higher calories as their BMRs are faster. I suggest dropping the calories to 10x bodyweight, ie. 2000 cals per day. Have a refeed day (higher carbs) at least once a week. I suggest adding 500 cals extra in carbs on that day.
    thanks,

    one more question regarding cardio, as mentioned before i want to avoid losing muscle mass, so i've been doing slow paced cardio 2 times a week, which supposedly best for losing fat and not muscle mass. is a pace of 3.5 on a treadmill from 35-45min sound about right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaArtois View Post
    thanks,

    one more question regarding cardio, as mentioned before i want to avoid losing muscle mass, so i've been doing slow paced cardio 2 times a week, which supposedly best for losing fat and not muscle mass. is a pace of 3.5 on a treadmill from 35-45min sound about right?
    Doing high intensity cardio won't make you lose muscle. People usually lose muscle when doing way too much cardio overall - eg. 1 hour per day running or more.

    HIIT (high intensity interval training) actually raises your BMR for the next 24 hours, so the net benefit is higher than the slower cardio. This is why I usually suggest 2 sessions of 20 min HIIT + 1-2 longer slower sessions (assuming no health problems prevent the HIIT) weekly.

    I wouldn't worry about losing muscle as long as you don't do fasted cardio.
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    40/55/5


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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaArtois View Post
    question about calories, im at about 2450 calories per day, and still can't lose stubborn weight around lower love handle area, should i go lower? im doing 40/30/30 but the thing is i see lots of guys on here bulking on 4k calories and cutting around 2600, and if i did that i would never lose weight, but then again looking at those figures i get scared to cut my calories and don't want to lose muscle mass.

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    I would up the cardio and keep eating the same thing. Lowering cals may do nothing as your metabolism burns less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelEntity View Post
    I would up the cardio and keep eating the same thing. Lowering cals may do nothing as your metabolism burns less.
    true, i have however set my daily calorie intake at 2300, with a 45/30/25 p/c/f ratio, i do however take either two scoops or one scoop of a protein a shake if i workout or do cardio so my calorie intake maybe closer to 2450 on those days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER View Post
    I see people say 40/40/20 which I am usually at about that.

    But then I see people say that 500 grams of protein is WAY too much. Well if you need 5000 cals a day how you going to do the 40/40/20?


    CROWLER
    See I wonder the same exact thing.

    And by the same token, if you require 4500-5000 cals a day and want to do a 40/40/20 split, how in the hell are you going to stay lean taking in 450-500g of carbs a day, no f'ing way.

    I should note that I'm assuming people usually put a 40/40/20 split in the form of protein/carbs/fat when talking about adding lean muscle. Thus the question, how are you going to stay lean on 450-500g of carbs a day, lol.
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    well, like someone else said earlier in the thread, you assign a minimum for protein, a minimum for healthy fats and where the calories come from after that isn't really important. The idea that a certain % macro distribution is important is silly.

    I'm not sure why you think you couldn't stay lean at 400g carbs though, I know plenty of people that do. if you are one of the 6-8 meals a day people, thats 50-65g per meai, which isn't much and easily comes from low GI sources.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    well, like someone else said earlier in the thread, you assign a minimum for protein, a minimum for healthy fats and where the calories come from after that isn't really important. The idea that a certain % macro distribution is important is silly.

    I'm not sure why you think you couldn't stay lean at 400g carbs though, I know plenty of people that do. if you are one of the 6-8 meals a day people, thats 50-65g per meai, which isn't much and easily comes from low GI sources.

    yah, I eat 7, but I really don't think I could stay lean on over 400g of carbs, no matter where they are coming from.

    you know what, now that I think about it, why isn't 40/30/30 an option on this poll?

    edit: I actually took my carbs up to 35-40 percent for two days and I blew up like a mofo, my gut looked like I was pregnant. Maybe just an adjustment period for a larger daily carb intake? Or I just really don't agree with carbs, lol.
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    Hold on...

    Is this Fat / Protein / Carb?

    Or what? Cause I chose 40/40/20 with that premise
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