Disproportionate Protein Intake and Oxidative Loss of Aminos

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    Disproportionate Protein Intake across Meals and Oxidative Loss of Aminos


    Dr. Scott Connelly, the creator of Metamyosyn (protein formula) says in the March issue of MD that protein intake should be "as high as possible", but that feedings should be broken up in equal fractions of the daily total.

    He argues that inconsistent intake across meals leads to oxidative loss of aminos b/c your system is calibrated to maintain certain amino certain limits, so smaller and larger feedings will induce oxidation of any excess beyond the levels attained by the smaller feedings.

    I think I've read something like this before, but he really doesn't elaborate on the topic. I'm wondering if this is true, and if so, would the different digestion rates for different protein sources (ie whey vs. casein vs. steak...) also factor into this.

    Thoughts????
    Last edited by Beowulf; 03-12-2006 at 06:56 PM.

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    so is he saying your suppose to have equal amounts of protein at every meal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CREAO
    so is he saying your suppose to have equal amounts of protein at every meal?
    Yeah, basically, if every meal does not have approximately the same protein comment, all excess protein in larger feedings will be waste.

    I had some other thoughts on this, but I can't think of it right now.
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    Interesting... that would really throw a wrench in my diet program if that is the case since I have two 'meal' with only 12 grams of protein even though my daily total is 266 grams from 8 'meals.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    I had some other thoughts on this, but I can't think of it right now.
    That's awesome. That's going right in my signature.
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    My understanding is that during protein synthesis the body will break down proteins into amino acids and poly peptide chains. The body uses the protein in its various states as it is need to supply resources for metabolic duties of independent body systems. So, muscle and skin repair are prioritized in whole amino structures. The smaller catalytic processes are downstream in the synthesis phase. The body will take as much protein as it can to repair itself, but does not have an adequate system for protein storage, outside of the muscle structure. This is what makes weight training effective for growth. The muscle tissue is stressed and creates a need for protien. When protein is not available the body feeds upon itself to meet the needs of basic function. This state is catabolism. When the body has more protein then it needs, it creates an imbalance in the amino targeting phase of protein synthesis. The result of the imbalance is peptide crystal chains and ammonia level build up. This is a toxic state that is the begining of renal failure. The body immediately begins to correct this by redirecting water, via the kidneys to flush the ammonia from the blood by respiration. Ideally your body will begin to sweat the ammonia from the skin. This process puts stress on the kidneys as well as the lungs. It sounds scary but mostly you just fart alot as nitrogen leeches from your large intestine and your body denies itself any new protein intake. Your sweat takes on a distinctive pissy ammonia smell.

    World class athletes spend a lot of time and money testing their protein ratios for optimal input quantities and dosing schedules. It would be hard to determine what is optimal for the average untested athlete. Personally, I just listen to my gut, if it hurts and I start to get gassy, I back off the protein. If I start to look small and weak, I increase the input. Simply adding another scoop to my shake.
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    Anyone have a link to the article?

    The result of the imbalance is peptide crystal chains and ammonia level build up. This is a toxic state that is the begining of renal failure. The body immediately begins to correct this by redirecting water, via the kidneys to flush the ammonia from the blood by respiration. Ideally your body will begin to sweat the ammonia from the skin. This process puts stress on the kidneys as well as the lungs. It sounds scary but mostly you just fart alot as nitrogen leeches from your large intestine and your body denies itself any new protein intake. Your sweat takes on a distinctive pissy ammonia smell.
    If an individual has elevated NH4 they most likely have liver issues since the liver converts NH4 to urea.



    The amino acid pool available within serum is constantly being added to via endogenous and exogenous sources. It is also constantly being drawn from for tissue synthesis as well other functions. I would need to read the article to make any comments on his theory/rec'd.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Smile


    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21
    Anyone have a link to the article?

    If an individual has elevated NH4 they most likely have liver issues since the liver converts NH4 to urea.



    The amino acid pool available within serum is constantly being added to via endogenous and exogenous sources. It is also constantly being drawn from for tissue synthesis as well other functions. I would need to read the article to make any comments on his theory/rec'd.
    Yes, that individual has major league liver issues. It really would be next to impossible to become that blood toxic with ammonia on just a whole food diet. It would be much easier with protein supplements and specific amino acid types. I wanted to show the systemology that the article may not explain. It is not a paradigm shift, just a refresher and or reminder of the importants of observing your diet when you train. So remember if you don't buy my book you will die!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicrhino
    ..It really would be next to impossible to become that blood toxic with ammonia on just a whole food diet.
    My point was that it would be next to impossible to achieve elevated NH4 levels thru ingestion of protein; whole food, supplemental, parenteral or such unless there is the preexistence of liver issues i.e. cirrhosis. But I digress.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Its utter BS, protein frequence is not particularly important, just as long as you get your totals for the day.

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...requency&st=30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDB
    That's awesome. That's going right in my signature.
    This is so typical of me. I must have kept this info in a different file I remember where I was when I had the thought, driving by a skating rink, but it got lost in the disorder from there to here. I only post one fraction of the threads/discussions I think of, b/c I never think of them at the appropriate....wait, what are we talking about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead1987
    Its utter BS, protein frequence is not particularly important, just as long as you get your totals for the day.

    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/i...requency&st=30
    Time is an illusion. To think that your body's protein needs are based on 24 hours is not logical. Your body's basic mechanisms are dynamic processes with no time constraints. You are constantly building up and breaking down.

    "...The two best ways to increase muscle sensitivity to amino acids is intense strength training, and a protein fast..."
    ^^Isn't that what we are doing?

    I only read the page you linked. The studies mentioned had nothing to do with athletes, bodybuilders or even metabolically stressd individuals. therefore they hold very little creedence considering our application.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
  

  
 

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