Protein timing

[u_e_s_i]

So I’ve come across a range of claims regarding the extent to which protein timing is important for anabolism. The old school teaching that there’s a 30-45 ‘anabolic window’ post-workout has supposedly been debunked according to some, but then I came across this article on AM’s homepage.
The 6 Best Post-Workout Nutrients - AnabolicMinds.com
It purports that there’s a 45 minute anabolic window post-workout when consuming protein is particularly effective. Tbh I wouldn’t have batted an eyelid if not for the fact that it’s on AM’s homepage.
So what do you (the well read and/or experienced) think about this theoretically or anecdotally?

As for what I know.
I know that the testosterone boost from a workout subsided about half an hour post-workout and so there would be a slight boost in anabolism from the raised testosterone.
The idea that your boy knows better than to reduce anabolism once 45+minutes post-workout makes sense for survival reasons.

Anecdotally, I’m not really sure what to think but might give both sides a try over the next month or two.

 

[mrhappyoz]

So I’ve come across a range of claims regarding the extent to which protein timing is important for anabolism. The old school teaching that there’s a 30-45 ‘anabolic window’ post-workout has supposedly been debunked according to some, but then I came across this article on AM’s homepage.
The 6 Best Post-Workout Nutrients - AnabolicMinds.com
It purports that there’s a 45 minute anabolic window post-workout when consuming protein is particularly effective. Tbh I wouldn’t have batted an eyelid if not for the fact that it’s on AM’s homepage.
So what do you (the well read and/or experienced) think about this theoretically or anecdotally?

As for what I know.
I know that the testosterone boost from a workout subsided about half an hour post-workout and so there would be a slight boost in anabolism from the raised testosterone.
The idea that your boy knows better than to reduce anabolism once 45+minutes post-workout makes sense for survival reasons.

Anecdotally, I’m not really sure what to think but might give both sides a try over the next month or two.

3/4 hour before.
Immediately after.
Every three hours.

>35g of protein per serving for optimal amino intake / growth trigger.

Have fun!

 

[BloodManor]

All depends on when your last meal was. If you are a protein rich meal prior to working out a post workout meal will have very little difference. If you train overnight fasted then have a protein rich meal post workout then it will make a difference.

 

[Pinggolfee96]

overall protein intake is what matters, but if you want to be most optimal/ scientific. 20-25 grams of complete protein every 3-4 hours

 

[double s]

I would be curious if there are real studies prooving/debunking the anabolic window

 

[The Solution]

I would be curious if there are real studies prooving/debunking the anabolic window

http://www.nsca.com/videos/conference_lectures/nutrient_timing_revisited/

- 45g Protein elevated Protein levels for upward to 2 hours post-workout to highest anabolic peak
- Addition of carbs did not change anabolic response
- 30-40g of protein was enough for elderly folks for resistance training

Resistance Training elevated MPS to a 2 fold increase (Kumar 2009)

Protein Timing from Alan:
- No difference in protein synthesis when given 1 hr vs 3 hr post-workout on trained subjects (2000)
- Endurance Cyclists showed increase in MPS when protein supplement given immediately post workout (2002)
Emark Study 2001:
- 13 untrained subjects given oral P+C supplement PWO and 2 hours Post-workout training 3x a week for 3 months

- Outcome?? Increased hypertrophy vs 2 hour group
** A future study of 28 elderly men found no strength or hypertrophy benefits of nutrient timing (2009)

Brad’s Stance:

6 week training protocol took 6g EAA within 1 and 2 hour post training were done on 23 studies with 525 subjects
Results?
- .2 increase in protein timing on hypertrophy and a 1.7 vs 1.3 increase when dosed post-workout compared to 2 hours post workout Protein timing on muscle hypertrophy is very minimal
- Novice lifters may show increased benefits waiting upward to several hours post-workout while serious lifters may have a very small benefits when consuming protein ASAP post-workout.

When are Carbs and Protein VERY Important Post-workout?

Carbs:
- During leg Training + HIIT Cardio or doing a 2-3 hour intense workout session
Protein:
-Resistance Training in a fasted state (no meal consumed at least 3-4 hours prior)

When are Carbs and Protein of lesser importance Post-workout?

Carbs:
- 1-2 hour training session after a pre-workout meal (Small or mixed 2-3 hours prior to session)
Protein:
- Training after a meal composed of 20-40g Protein at least 1-2 hours prior to a workout in a fed state.

Overall Cliffs:

- Nutrient Timing can be beneficial but window of opportunity is not as big as believed
- Provided protein rich meal 3-4 hours prior to training, there is no stress about immediate post-workout protein supplement or meal
- Consume .4-.5g/kg of LBM in a pre/post workout exercise window spaced 4-6 hours depending on meal size.
- Post workout carb intake does not meaningful increase aabolicsm unless doing a 2 a day workout session involving same muscle groups. Glycogen is not a limting factor if you can consume enough Carbohydrates daily in the 24 hour period.

 

[AntM1564]

So I’ve come across a range of claims regarding the extent to which protein timing is important for anabolism. The old school teaching that there’s a 30-45 ‘anabolic window’ post-workout has supposedly been debunked according to some, but then I came across this article on AM’s homepage.
The 6 Best Post-Workout Nutrients - AnabolicMinds.com
It purports that there’s a 45 minute anabolic window post-workout when consuming protein is particularly effective. Tbh I wouldn’t have batted an eyelid if not for the fact that it’s on AM’s homepage.
So what do you (the well read and/or experienced) think about this theoretically or anecdotally?

As for what I know.
I know that the testosterone boost from a workout subsided about half an hour post-workout and so there would be a slight boost in anabolism from the raised testosterone.
The idea that your boy knows better than to reduce anabolism once 45+minutes post-workout makes sense for survival reasons.

Anecdotally, I’m not really sure what to think but might give both sides a try over the next month or two.

Just to add, here is a pretty good article as well.

https://biotest.t-nation.com/articles/the-top-10-post-workout-nutrition-myths

 

[Pinggolfee96]

what would happen (just out of curiosity) if you trained In them am and fasted till the pm eating 8 or so hours later, BUT hitting your macronutrient goals? not optimal, but how inefficient would it be compared to eating a meal after training?

 

[u_e_s_i]

what would happen (just out of curiosity) if you trained In them am and fasted till the pm eating 8 or so hours later, BUT hitting your macronutrient goals? not optimal, but how inefficient would it be compared to eating a meal after training?

Terry Crews trains first thing each day and has his first meal as lunch time in an unorthodox take on intermittent fasting. He hasn’t gotten noticeably stronger but he’s 40+ and already strong

 

[AlexPowell]

What matters most is your caloric intake over the period of a week
You'll have amino acids in your blood stream at 1pm if you eat at 8pm the previous day. The body regulates the number of aminos in the bloodstream very carefully

Lots of people speculate about catabolism from not eating protein for extended periods of time but it's never been demonstrated in a clinical setting. For most people, hedge your bets and eat protein all the time. I wouldn't really worry about it too much though

 

[mrhappyoz]

Backing up my earlier reply -

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-018-0215-1

Worth the read.

 

[jrock645]

Here’s what I don’t get... All these people saying only eat about 35g of protein per meal because your body can’t absorb more, but also push eating 250-300g of protein per day for a lot of people. This doesn’t make any sense.

 

[mrhappyoz]

Well.. I eat about 7 meals a day. 35 x 7 = 245g for the day.

 

[Pinggolfee96]

Here’s what I don’t get... All these people saying only eat about 35g of protein per meal because your body can’t absorb more, but also push eating 250-300g of protein per day for a lot of people. This doesn’t make any sense.

incorrect

 

[jrock645]

incorrect

No argument here. But that’s the narrative I’ve seen so pushed so many times

 

[u_e_s_i]

Here’s what I don’t get... All these people saying only eat about 35g of protein per meal because your body can’t absorb more, but also push eating 250-300g of protein per day for a lot of people. This doesn’t make any sense.

Yeh I believe that that’s a misconception, speaking from theory and personal experience.
The tried and tested rule of thumb I use is that, when your body needs protein badly (post-workout or first meal if you worked out the day before), you can consume and utilise about 40-45g per hour without stimulating glyconeogenisis (which causes protein farts). The exception to this is avian species e.g. chicken, duck etc. In which case ~40g per two hours is about right.
When your body doesn’t need protein as badly ~40g is a good amount.
A lot of people also take casein at night and that of course counts towards your protein macro

You know how you can eat larger portions of slower digesting proteins? That’s true. I did some research years ago and found a study with the digestion times shown below. Each meal finishes digesting when the slowest digestion item(s) of considerable size finishes digesting.

Whey isolate 30-60 min
Whey concentrate 1.5-2 hours
Veggies 45-60 min
Cooked egg 1 hour
Chicken 1.5 hours
Duck 2 hours
Beef & lamb 4 hours
Pork 5 hours

 

[AlexPowell]

Rebuilding muscle takes days, not minutes
Don't walk over $100 notes to pick up nickles