Nutrition Help 101

LukeHobbs

LukeHobbs

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Good afternoon,
I️ decided I️ want to get this nutrition thing down once and for all, that being said I️ need some of you experienced gym rats to double check my plan to start out. I️ have hope to compete someday in an amateur comp btw.

Stats: 30 yo, 262lbs, 6’4, 15-20% bf, have been training off and on for 14-15 years.

Currently I️ am 260lbs (roughly), for me to maintain that weight I️ would take my body mass and multiply it by 4, 4 and 9 to represent macronutrients and their caloric content correct?

Protein = 4x260 = 1040 cal
Carbs = 4x260 = 1040 cal
Fats. = 9x260 = 2340 cal

With all this said, I️ would need to split a total of 4420 calories of 6 meals throughout the day? Meaning, 736 calories in each meal not including pre and post workout meals?

Pre workout meal: 60min before training

30g protein
.25 of daily carbohydrates
.25 of daily fat

Post workout meal #1: 10min post training

Shake with;

40-50g Protein
.25 of daily Carbohydrates (Dextrose)
* NO FATS

Post Workout meal #2: 1hr after first meal

30-40g Protein
.25g daily carbs in the form of fast digesting carbs
* NO FATS

IF YOU GUYS CAN CLEAN ANYTHING UP THAT I️ HAVE WRONG OR ADD TO THIS FOR MY PEACE OF NUTRITIONAL MIND I️ WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT!

Thanks all
 
The Solution

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Whats wrong? A lot.

#1) Meal Frequency:
First you don't need 6 meals. Meal Frequency is personal preference. There is more data and science to back a lesser meal frequency for better muscle protein synthesis

http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
Podcast:
https://www.biolayne.com/blog/news/episode-2-of-muscle-college-radio-muscle-protein-synthesis/
Protein Info:
https://www.biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

You dont need to have X or Y amount in each meal. Or a steady caloric intake in each and every meal. Meeting your total calories in the 24 hour period is what matters most. It is most optimal to get more around your workout (and make those more carb heavy). Due to your calories being so high it may be easier to spread them out evenly because your not someone who is eating 2000-3000 calories which would be a lot easier in less meals.

#2) Post-Workout Dextrose or insulin spiking:

Dextrose you can skip. Not needed. High GI Carbs are not needed post-workout because food will be overlapping in the pre-workout meal or an intra-workout cocktail.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15277409
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17617942

For most of us who train with an intra-workout BCAA or pre-workout meal there is stil food overlap as i touched in the other thread, do we need to spike insulin? absolutely not, food is still digesting, aminos are still present, so do we really need simple carbs post-workout not really..

Could they be optimal .. sure why not? but remember the total calories/macros if meeting your protein/fat/fiber minimums on a daily basis are optimal for your goal.

more:

The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

#3 You don't need a post-workout shake an then a meal 1 hour later.
Again read my posts above on meal frequency. Having a meal so close together is worse for Muscle Protein Synthesis. Your reading posts or information from probably 2010 or earlier which has been debunked by current research.

https://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-20

#4 keep it simple.
Focus your carb rich meals around your workout, eat less in the other meals. Since your intake is so high you can evenly spread it out say 100g pre, 100g post, 75g in the other meals throughout the day. You can keep fat lower around workouts (if it bloats you) but having a mixed meal may be better . I know john meadows is huge about it because it helps prevent smaller insulin spikes.

"I have been preaching the addition of a small amount of fat to pre workout meal for a long time so yes. Also, I think it is AOK to have in post workout meal" again. total calories.

Good video on post workout nutrition
[video=youtube;ZbJt0-5NLBM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbJt0-5NLBM[/video]

Aim for 1g/lb of protein
at least 20% fats
rest carbs

Adjust to more fat if you find yourself getting bloated, sluggish or its too much for your body. Then you will have to look at your food sources to help get the food down (bagels, trail mix, granola, cereal's, english muffins, breads, using honey) and other carb sources to help reach your intake without bloating you and keeping fiber down.


http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/macronutrient-intake-for-mass-gains-qa.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-frequency-for-mass-gains.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html

Philosophies, Macro intake, training , and cardio articles for you to understand and help set up what you need to do before moving forward towards more supplements or advanced workout routines.
 
Whisky

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This ^^^ I completely agree with. There’s a lot of bro science and outdated thinking that many people still believe (especially around nutrient timing and meal frequency).

Obviously I’m not going to just repeat the above but in terms of your calorie and macro split it would be helpful to know:

- goal (lean bulk or cut? I assume cut as it would be better to lean bulk from a lower bf starting point)

- using anabolics? I assume not but just checking

- number of days and type of training per week?
 
kenpoengineer

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Fantastic research The Solution. I copied that post to my iPhone Notes app to read later. Thanks.
 
LukeHobbs

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Thanks to you all for the help.
Thanks to The Solution for that great lot of info, much appreciated brother.
Whisky, would you suggest a cut then a lean bulk to follow, a cut and then another lean bulk to follow that? Keep in that fashion to put on solid gains?
 
Whisky

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Thanks to you all for the help.
Thanks to The Solution for that great lot of info, much appreciated brother.
Whisky, would you suggest a cut then a lean bulk to follow, a cut and then another lean bulk to follow that? Keep in that fashion to put on solid gains?
Yes absolutely. I don't want to speak for others but its fairly standard advice to start a bulk from a lean position (10-12% bf at least). Theres several reasons, mainly that its mentally easier to bulk when you still look relatively lean (i.e if you are currently 20 % and bulk you'll maybe not be happy with how you look tbe whole time), also when bulking from a higher bf position its more likely you'll store more fat on the bulk (i.e its harder to 'lean bulk if you have higher bf).
 
LukeHobbs

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Whisky,
That all make perfect sense to me brother. I don’t know why the nutritional aspect throws so many off, almost like speaking French smh.
Would I attempt to get down to a specific weight (i.e. 225lbs) or do I shoot for just the body fat percentage (i.e. 245lbs @ 12%bf)? You’ll have to excuse my knowledge base on the subject, I feel like there is so much info on nutrition that the “keep it simple” approach gets distorted a great deal.
And my Anabolics?
Well I was looking at Test C, Tren A to start my cut... Winny and Mast Prop added closer the 7-10% bf mark.
 
The Solution

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Whisky,
That all make perfect sense to me brother. I don’t know why the nutritional aspect throws so many off, almost like speaking French smh.
Would I attempt to get down to a specific weight (i.e. 225lbs) or do I shoot for just the body fat percentage (i.e. 245lbs @ 12%bf)? You’ll have to excuse my knowledge base on the subject, I feel like there is so much info on nutrition that the “keep it simple” approach gets distorted a great deal.
And my Anabolics?
Well I was looking at Test C, Tren A to start my cut... Winny and Mast Prop added closer the 7-10% bf mark.
Mirror > Scale
Go by how you look.
You won't get a true BF% unless you get a hydro test or a bodpod. Calipers are very far off.

Go until you are comfortable, and then bulk up. Being leaner = better to utilize nutrients and better to start your bulk in a leaner state (prevents less fat gain)
 
Whisky

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Whisky,
That all make perfect sense to me brother. I don’t know why the nutritional aspect throws so many off, almost like speaking French smh.
Would I attempt to get down to a specific weight (i.e. 225lbs) or do I shoot for just the body fat percentage (i.e. 245lbs @ 12%bf)? You’ll have to excuse my knowledge base on the subject, I feel like there is so much info on nutrition that the “keep it simple” approach gets distorted a great deal.
And my Anabolics?
Well I was looking at Test C, Tren A to start my cut... Winny and Mast Prop added closer the 7-10% bf mark.
As the solution has pointed out, the mirror is your best shout. Personally i get a dexa scan every 6-12 months which gives me a frame of reference. Bio impedence scales are pointless, calipers done properly are better but it does need hydrostatic weighing or dexa to be spot on.

You can also post a front and.side picture on here and get a resonable view.

In terms of a target normally its fairly easy to work out roughly how much bf you need to lose to get down towards 10%, for a natty they would need to factor in some lbm loss as well but your on anabolics whuch changes things somewhat. You can pretty much avoid any lbm loss in a cut (or even gain some lbm) thus id just shoot for 230lbs (assuming you are 20%) or until the mirror tells you differently (i.e you look shredded).

I'd also keep protein at 1.5g per lb to take advantage of your increased protein synthasis. Im not the best person to advise on your cycle by the way, nutrition is a big part of my life but im new to anabolics myself (and i dont pin).....

Good luck brother
 
LukeHobbs

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The Solution,
In regards to the philosophies’ “macros for mass gain article”, is the one for macros for a cut?

Thanks
 
The Solution

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The Solution,
In regards to the philosophies’ “macros for mass gain article”, is the one for macros for a cut?

Thanks
Macros for mass is for gaining not cutting
You can search body recomposition for dieting articles but that’s nothing you need at the moment

If Cutting Read the following:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weightfat-loss-part-1.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weightfat-loss-part-2.html/

I highly suggest you read here regarding your diet:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weight-fat-loss-part-1.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-fundamentals-of-fat-loss-diets-part-2.html/

Those are dieting articles.
 

DieselJD

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In the first post, is that really how you find how to maintain the weight or a weight you want to be at?
 
LukeHobbs

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The Solution, and Whisky,

For my Macros, do I set them by my current body weight or do I set them at my Target body weight when starting out on the cut? I would assume I would take my Macros for 270.2lbs (my current weight), subtract total calories by 500 and sit there for a week and then readjust again for week two until I hit my goal of 10% BF?
 
The Solution

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The Solution, and Whisky,

For my Macros, do I set them by my current body weight or do I set them at my Target body weight when starting out on the cut? I would assume I would take my Macros for 270.2lbs (my current weight), subtract total calories by 500 and sit there for a week and then readjust again for week two until I hit my goal of 10% BF?
If you want to gain mass. links below

Good video on post workout nutrition
[video=youtube;ZbJt0-5NLBM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbJt0-5NLBM[/video]

Aim for 1g/lb of protein (Since your 262 just do 270g)
at least 20% fats
rest carbs

Adjust to more fat if you find yourself getting bloated, sluggish or its too much for your body. Then you will have to look at your food sources to help get the food down (bagels, trail mix, granola, cereal's, english muffins, breads, using honey) and other carb sources to help reach your intake without bloating you and keeping fiber down.


http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/macronutrient-intake-for-mass-gains-qa.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-frequency-for-mass-gains.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html

Philosophies, Macro intake, training , and cardio articles for you to understand and help set up what you need to do before moving forward towards more supplements or advanced workout routines.
if you want to cut read these.


If Cutting Read the following:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weightfat-loss-part-1.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weightfat-loss-part-2.html/

I highly suggest you read here regarding your diet:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/exercise-and-weight-fat-loss-part-1.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-fundamentals-of-fat-loss-diets-part-2.html/

The last link virtually sets up your macros for you.
Just follow my outline , and then adjust after 2 weeks based off mirror/scale

If you think a calculator is going to be accurate it wont. You have to do trial and error. The human body is not a textbook. It requires time, effort, and dedication to find out what works. There is no one size fits all
 
Afi140

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Thats why they call me The Solution :)
No joke about 3 months back jersey shore got brought up and instead of me saying the situation I accidentally said the solution lol. Everyone was like oh who is the solution-needless to say I had to explain. Just made me think of that lol.
 

DieselJD

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Thanks for adding those articles. I am not interested in fat loss at this time, but going to that site and reading for literally 10 minutes has given me some great insight and things to try. Going forward I will definitely keep it in my toolkit!
 
Whisky

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The Solution, and Whisky,

For my Macros, do I set them by my current body weight or do I set them at my Target body weight when starting out on the cut? I would assume I would take my Macros for 270.2lbs (my current weight), subtract total calories by 500 and sit there for a week and then readjust again for week two until I hit my goal of 10% BF?
Base off current and adjust as your body composition changes mate.

As theSolution has pointed out there is an element of trial and error here though. No one size fits all. So many variables (even the type of food you eat to hit macros can make a difference - the thermogenic effect of foods for example).
 
LukeHobbs

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The Solution and Whisky,
Thanks again for all the nobie help. Just for my piece of mind, I’m on the right track now correct (below)?

Current: 270lbs
BF: 25% ish
Goal: 230 @ 10%BF

270 x 12 = 3240cal/day

230lbs (LBM) x 1.5 (Protein)= 345g/day

270 x.33 (Fat) = 89.1g /day

345g (Protein) x 4= 1380
89.1 (Fat) x9= 802

1380 + 802 = 2182
2182 - 3240 = 1058 (Carbs)

Starting point:
Protein: 1380 cal / day
Fat: 802 cal /day
Carbs: 1058 cal /day
Total= 3240 cal/ day

Does this all look right as a starting point?
 
The Solution

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There is no true answer TBH. Like we have said. You have to run it for 2-3 weeks, adjust as needed based off scale and mirror
The goal of cutting is keeping calories as high as possible to allow for lots of change when you stall.
 
LukeHobbs

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The Solution
I get all that brother, thank you for all your help!
So while running it for 2-3 weeks, and I go to weigh in and it shows I’ve lost a pound or two, I keep going with the Macros I have until my weight loss progression stalls. At this point I would drop calories by about 500 continuously until I reach my goal? Or should I drop them by 200 when I stall to keep calorie intake up?
 
The Solution

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It tells you exactly how to drop calories and adjust cardio in the weightloss links I gave you above. I love giving general information and help to people on here, but I literally directed you to the links that outline everything your asking. Please read them.

Do not drop another 500 calories Maybe 100-200, then if you stall again adjust cardio (right off the Lyle Links from Body recomposition). You may also want to consider hiring a coach if you have all these questions. It may just help you and take a lot of stress off your shoulders, and let them do all the hard work while you just show and follow directions.

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adjusting-the-diet.html/
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-fundamentals-of-fat-loss-diets-part-1.html/

^^ Which should help.
 
Whisky

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The Solution and Whisky,
Thanks again for all the nobie help. Just for my piece of mind, I’m on the right track now correct (below)?

Current: 270lbs
BF: 25% ish
Goal: 230 @ 10%BF

270 x 12 = 3240cal/day

230lbs (LBM) x 1.5 (Protein)= 345g/day

270 x.33 (Fat) = 89.1g /day

345g (Protein) x 4= 1380
89.1 (Fat) x9= 802

1380 + 802 = 2182
2182 - 3240 = 1058 (Carbs)

Starting point:
Protein: 1380 cal / day
Fat: 802 cal /day
Carbs: 1058 cal /day
Total= 3240 cal/ day

Does this all look right as a starting point?
My apoligies, i cant recall how much you are training but assuming its 5 times per week ish then it looks ok as a startinv point mate. 2lbs a week is the max you want to be losing.

I like to lose weight whilst eating as much possible so i stick at that level until it stalls and then drop 250. I also increase cardio instead of dropping more calories.....

Good luck with it bro - keep us updated
 
Wobmarvel

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All very scientific. At the end of the day you need to do what works for you. All this amazing studied advice doesn't mean **** if it doesn't get you the results you need. Use the advice to set up a starting point but don't be afraid of changing things up if what you see in the mirror is moving away from your goals, be that weight loss or fat gain. Starting lean is definitely the way to go and this is the bit that a lot of guys skip because they just want to get huge and spending 8 weeks losing weight is moving in the opposite direction but believe me once your six pack and vascularity are dialled in it will be so much easier to increase calories and see the weight go on in all the right places. At that point you are a fat burning machine. Just remember to throw in cheat days and also if you are running anabolics you can get away with a lot more flexibility on your diet.
 
Wobmarvel

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All very scientific. At the end of the day you need to do what works for you. All this amazing studied advice doesn't mean **** if it doesn't get you the results you need. Use the advice to set up a starting point but don't be afraid of changing things up if what you see in the mirror is moving away from your goals, be that weight loss or fat gain. Starting lean is definitely the way to go and this is the bit that a lot of guys skip because they just want to get huge and spending 8 weeks losing weight is moving in the opposite direction but believe me once your six pack and vascularity are dialled in it will be so much easier to increase calories and see the weight go on in all the right places. At that point you are a fat burning machine. Just remember to throw in cheat days and also if you are running anabolics you can get away with a lot more flexibility on your diet. Best of luck.
 
Wobmarvel

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Sorry for the double post.my phone was being a bitch.
 
LukeHobbs

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Whisky Wobmarvel
Thank you both for your advice and help. Appreciate you guys keeping it simple for me
 
LukeHobbs

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Whisky,
When I do stall out, in regards to weight loss, which do I lower fats or carbs, or a combo of both?

So if my starting calories are 3240 and I subtract 250 calories as I stall, how many calories are from fat and carbs as protein will stay the same.
 
Whisky

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Whisky,
When I do stall out, in regards to weight loss, which do I lower fats or carbs, or a combo of both?

So if my starting calories are 3240 and I subtract 250 calories as I stall, how many calories are from fat and carbs as protein will stay the same.
Personally I always lower carbs (or at least the majority of carbs). Towards the end of a cut personally my only carb intake of any significance is just pre and post training.

Depending on your time available, increasing cardio is another way to continue progress without dropping calories.

For example, very approx but a 5k run will burn around 500 Cals for me. So adding in that 3 days a week is the same as dropping just over 200 Cals a day......
 
LukeHobbs

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Whisky
Man, not to yank your jewlz, but you make it all easy brother. Thank you
 
Whisky

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Whisky
Man, not to yank your jewlz, but you make it all easy brother. Thank you
Haha, no problem bro. It’s just my personal experience (I used to be very very fat and spent a lot of time researching nutrition etc). Hope it helps you achieve your goals.
 

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