Intermittent fasting?

Page 2 of 2 First 12

  1. Guys both of you raise valid points above and debate and discussion is good and what I wanted. I'm not going to use BCAAs though, unless I feel I really need to as from what I have gathered, given the short time frames of not eating, there will be little to no catabolism


  2. With the time you're training (during your feeding window) you shouldn't need to consume BCAAs the same as if you were training early morning, fasted.

    Personally, I've done IF for about 4 years now and wouldn't change it for the world. It keeps me lean and has totally changed my thoughts on food and approach to eating.
    I love food and eating lots of it, so if I practice IF I can eat larger, but fewer meals in my window. On training days I eat about 3400 cals and then about 2800 on a rest day. When I really dial this in and also carb cycle too, I can get much leaner in a shorter space of time, whilst still maintaining/building a bit of muscle. I never do cardio per se either

    I train first thing at 6:30am, drink my BCAAs (xtend or similar with zero cals) with creatine HCL and then continue to fast until 1pm. I then have 2 main meals and a large snack (eggs, cashews and ham usually) during this time, until 9pm; so a 16:8 approach for me.

    If I need to lose water weight or a bit of BF really fast then I'll sometimes fast for 20-22 hours on a rest day. Actually, this can be a lot of fun when you're used to it - plenty of water and a couple of black coffees in the am (I don't drink caffeine after 1pm) and by 4/5pm your head is clear, you don't feel hungry and you feel great! Almost a bit high in a way

    Using the above approach I've found that I can consistently have "diet-free" weekends, as long as I at least do a 12:12 fast:feed on Saturday/Sunday
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by Rikrodgers View Post
    With the time you're training (during your feeding window) you shouldn't need to consume BCAAs the same as if you were training early morning, fasted.

    Personally, I've done IF for about 4 years now and wouldn't change it for the world. It keeps me lean and has totally changed my thoughts on food and approach to eating.
    I love food and eating lots of it, so if I practice IF I can eat larger, but fewer meals in my window. On training days I eat about 3400 cals and then about 2800 on a rest day. When I really dial this in and also carb cycle too, I can get much leaner in a shorter space of time, whilst still maintaining/building a bit of muscle. I never do cardio per se either

    I train first thing at 6:30am, drink my BCAAs (xtend or similar with zero cals) with creatine HCL and then continue to fast until 1pm. I then have 2 main meals and a large snack (eggs, cashews and ham usually) during this time, until 9pm; so a 16:8 approach for me.

    If I need to lose water weight or a bit of BF really fast then I'll sometimes fast for 20-22 hours on a rest day. Actually, this can be a lot of fun when you're used to it - plenty of water and a couple of black coffees in the am (I don't drink caffeine after 1pm) and by 4/5pm your head is clear, you don't feel hungry and you feel great! Almost a bit high in a way

    Using the above approach I've found that I can consistently have "diet-free" weekends, as long as I at least do a 12:12 fast:feed on Saturday/Sunday
    Thanks. Your approach seems very similar to mine. Do you not take in a protein shake after your morning workout? You mentioned just BCAAs. How many grams do you take? I'm interested as I like to extend my fast sometimes to an 18/6 and may use BCAAs like you to cover me till I break the fast. Incidentally I also do a full days fast like you every couple of weeks.

  4. No protein shakes for me after training, just BCAAs as they're zero cal and although technically leucine breaks the fast, it's insulinogenic effect isn't as great as a whey shake would be...
    Depending on which brand I'm using it'll be 5-10g with creatine HCL and glutamine after training and then maybe another 5-10g with glutamine at 11/11:30 ish. I usually skip the second dose though.

    Hope this helps!

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rikrodgers View Post
    No protein shakes for me after training, just BCAAs as they're zero cal and although technically leucine breaks the fast, it's insulinogenic effect isn't as great as a whey shake would be...
    Depending on which brand I'm using it'll be 5-10g with creatine HCL and glutamine after training and then maybe another 5-10g with glutamine at 11/11:30 ish. I usually skip the second dose though.

    Hope this helps!
    Yes thanks very helpful
    •   
       

  6. Intermittent fasting?


    [QUOTE=Rikrodgers;5851573]BCAAs as they're zero cal/QUOTE]

    I thought they were still 4kcals per g, well at least the BCAAs I bought say they are

  7. [QUOTE=mickc1965;5851652]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikrodgers View Post
    BCAAs as they're zero cal/QUOTE]

    I thought they were still 4kcals per g, well at least the BCAAs I bought say they are
    You're right, they are.

  8. Xtend are supposed to be zero cals and the ones I'm currently using from The Protein Works are nothing but BCAAs, so also zero cal.
    4cals won't break the fast anyway

  9. 4 kcals per g would if taking more than 12.5g

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mickc1965 View Post
    4 kcals per g would if taking more than 12.5g
    Yup cause ur drinks cant be more than 50 cals

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Vikingbro View Post
    Thanks for your answer. Do you think this applies if I do fasted cardio in the morning too?
    When I do fasted cardio in the AM, I take 2 servings of BCAAs before& during so it inhibits MPS and dose with another serving of BCAAs every other hour or so until I break my fast. The days I don't do fasted, I drink 1 serving of BCAAs in the AM and 1 every few hours.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by ECC View Post
    Yes! If you're going to fast get the benefit of fasted cardio (remember no amino! They'll break the fast). Just make sure you hit your protein requirements and you'll be good to go
    Aminos don't break fasts when it's 0 cal. Leucine doesn't do much to the insulin.
  13. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar

    That is incorrect
    BCAAs are 6 calories per gram, and when sipped or taken in an all day fashion, contribute heavily to both an insulin response and gluconeogenesis. Sipping on BCAA’s takes away from MPS (Muscle Protein Synthesis) as levels never get a chance to reach refractory stages before being spiked again The net effect is increased insulin and blood sugar.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2969169/

    It's wrong to think your not breaking your fast because in their free form, BCAAs have btw 5-6 Calories per gram and Glutamine as about 3 Calories per gram. In essence, you are drinking a protein powder that is made up of 4 amino acids instead of 20 and has been pre digested for you.

    You could even monitor your Blood Glucose (BG) levels by taking the results after meals or several doses of BCAA's and see your BG will rise. Showing there is signs of small insulin spikes from the dosings. Weather you want to use them or not is totally up to you, but they do contain calories, so you can use as you please. But if you think your doing fasted cardio while drinking a BCAA beverage that is far from true because it does have caloric value. The FDA labels them without because there is a small amount (6 calories/serving) so if you intake 20-30g of bcaa's you can do the math 120-180 kcals while you think your not breaking your fast you really are. So you need to add the calories up

    The reason you think your bcaa is 0 calories is because by law the FDA can label them as that yet they still do hold a caloric value. BCAA's are free forms of protein which do contain calories.

    Quote Originally Posted by celliem View Post
    Aminos don't break fasts when it's 0 cal. Leucine doesn't do much to the insulin.
    Anabolic Minds Site Rep
    www.anabolicminds.com

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Vikingbro View Post
    Thanks. Your approach seems very similar to mine. Do you not take in a protein shake after your morning workout? You mentioned just BCAAs. How many grams do you take? I'm interested as I like to extend my fast sometimes to an 18/6 and may use BCAAs like you to cover me till I break the fast. Incidentally I also do a full days fast like you every couple of weeks.
    i'm not positive but i believe there have been a lot of studies done showing BCAAs break a fast. i run 16x8 right now and do cardio in the morning before work fasted and then workout at lunch fasted again and eat right after. i havent really noticed a performance dip and have been doing it for almost two months now.

  15. I've been taking HMB during my fast (16/8). It ramps up mTor without affecting AMPK, seems to boost GH and IGF1 and it is also beneficial to stack with leucine for added benefit. I'd post links but can't, all can be found in Suppversity and Ergolog.

  16. I run between 16/8 and 20/4 depending on what I have going on that day. Iíve found IF to increase my concentration, focus, and energy levels.

    I introduced 3g HMB about two weeks ago (hadnít heard about it) to my 6g 4:1:1 BCAAs, 1g ALCAR, 2g tyrosine, and 3g Citrulline Mal pre work out. Iíve noticed slightly reduced DOMS.

    Since lucine only converts to HMB at 5% and HMB is very anti-catabolic, I think itís over looked/ under ratted for this style of training. @bonbon mentioned two of the places I went before I decided to add this supp. And at 12 cents a day, it just makes sense even if it only does half of what the studies show.
  17. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar

    IF has beyond allowing some people to better sustain a net caloric deficit for the goal of weight or fat loss. Is it more convenient for some people to eat less frequently? Yes. Is it more sustainable for some people to enjoy larger meals when they eat? Yes. Can it be a simpler, less meticulous way toward a net caloric deficit for some people to include fasting days in a given ad libitum week? Yes. Is IF the magic, universal solution for every dieter? Hell no.

    Per the recent claims in various herpaderp vids & other media from gurus & quacks -- does IF have special effects on body comp "buhcuz increased growth hormone"? No. The growth hormone increase as a result of IF is merely the body's stress/survival response to the physiologically 'sensed' threat of famine/starvation. It's the equivalent of the emergency lights of a building turning on when the main power is down. I've said this before, but some folks fail to grasp that skipping meals does not have a net anabolic effect. Maximizing muscle growth is not going to come from nothing but breathing and prayers all day.

    Lastly, has the WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE in human research shown special health effects of IF compared to more linear deficits? Overall, the answer is no. Have IF studies on rodents shown cardiometabolic benefits? Yes. Have these benefits panned out in the body of human research comparing IF vs linear patterns? Sorry, but no. In the largest systematic review of IF research to-date, Seimon et al compared the effects of intermittent energy restriction (IER) to continuous energy restriction (CER). They found that overall, the two diet types resulted in “apparently equivalent outcomes” in terms of bodyweight reduction and body composition change. In addition, neither IER or CER was superior to the other at improving glucose control/insulin sensitivity.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26384657

    In another recent systematic review & meta-analysis, this time on long-term outcomes in IF vs linear dieting, Headland et al concluded the following: "...neither intermittent or continuous energy restriction being superior with respect to weight loss. [...] Blood lipid concentrations, glucose, and insulin were not altered by intermittent energy expenditure in values greater than those seen with continuous energy restriction." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27338458

    The take-away: if you prefer to practice some variant of IF and are successfully making or maintaining progress on it, then good for you, stick with it. If you prefer a more conventional or linear dietary pattern with a higher meal frequency and are doing well on it - good for you, stick with that, because the claims of IF's supposed *superiority* do not have strong scientific support.
    Anabolic Minds Site Rep
    www.anabolicminds.com
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 75
    Last Post: 08-11-2011, 11:31 PM
  2. Experiences with Intermittent Fasting
    By adnscmplx in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 04-09-2011, 01:27 AM
  3. intermittent fasting
    By Shavani in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 02-09-2011, 11:47 PM
  4. Dosing Natadrol on a intermitt fasting diet
    By donbx in forum LG Sciences
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-19-2010, 10:08 PM
  5. Intermittent Fasting
    By trackstud100m in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-18-2009, 03:12 PM
Log in
Log in