Peri-Workout Nurition Monster Thread!

[sonofzeusv2]

Welcome to the Peri-Workout Nutrition Monster Thread!


Thread Goals:

1. Inform the uninformed
2. Further the understanding of those familiar
3. Share valuable information to benefit thread viewers
4. Concentrate focus of nutritional understanding to this crucial window of anabolism
5. Share experiences, advice, supplementation advice, things learned through trial and error. Honestly anything, let's get this thread saturated with information!

Disclaimer: Being a member of Anabolicminds for some time now, I have learned countless nutritional and supplementation strategies though analyzing countless threads and forum topics. I feel that it is time for me to give back to the community which has helped me significantly in my own fitness journey by focusing on a nutrition strategy which I have implemented and seen fantastic results from. S/O to The Solution for his support and pin-point accurate advice since my start on AM. Please feel free to tag those who may be interested, thank you!

So... What is Peri-Workout Nutrition?

Phonetically, the term "peri-workout nutrition" literally means "around-workout nutrition," or, in better phrased terminology, how you structure your nutrient intake around your workouts. This includes not only your pre- and post-workout meals, but also the nutrients you take in during your actual training session. As could be assumed, this is a critical period for nutrient uptake as you are priming your body for the imminent training session, fueling your body during your workout, or re-fueling your body post-workout.

Intra-Workout Nutrition in Relation to Peri-Workout Nutrition

Intra-workout nutrition, or nutrient intake during your workouts, has gained a cult following within the world of fitness. One of the most common sites in any gym nowadays is a guy/girl carrying around a jug of brightly colored liquid. Ask them what it is and they respond "amino acids." As amazing as amino acids are from a nutritional standpoint, the idea of intra-workout does not stop with them whatsoever. There are many factors that come into play when crafting the perfect intra-workout supplement, including ingredients to supplement the "pump," enhance hydration, promote optimal oxygen utilization, and add to recovery/promote the sparing of muscle tissue from physical stress. Intra-workout nutrition is a main component of peri-workout nutrition as it keeps the body primed with nutrients to maintain optimal performance and output

Personal Go-To Ingredients

• Peak O2
• Hydromax Glycerol Powder
• BCAAs (EAAs are fantastic as well, but I tend to stick to 'ole reliable)
• HBCD (Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin)
• Creatine Monohydrate

In follow-up posts, I will go into detail about why I prefer the supplements listed above and the scientific legitimacy behind them. But, for now, I will leave it to you all... How do you want this thread to develop (if at all)? What topics do you feel need addressing? Is there certain studies you would like to see? Supplement spotlights/supplement stack discussions? Peri-workout supplement/food porn? Feel free to expand upon anything previously stated; as stated previously, let's blow this up and spread the word!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'm not saying that BCAAs are useless/bad by any means, but the research does indicate that EAAs are superior to BCAAs (equal leucine content of course), and also the importance of having high leucine content (at least 3g leucine). I've posted about this (various amino acid sources, leucine content, pairing with carbs, etc) in much greater detail before (with references to many studies), so I could always copy/paste that info here when I get to a computer.

 

[sonofzeusv2]

I'm not saying that BCAAs are useless/bad by any means, but the research does indicate that EAAs are superior to BCAAs (equal leucine content of course), and also the importance of having high leucine content (at least 3g leucine). I've posted about this (various amino acid sources, leucine content, pairing with carbs, etc) in much greater detail before (with references to many studies), so I could always copy/paste that info here when I get to a computer.

That'd be fantastic man; as stated previously, I would love to have this be the ground for discussion between all ideologies on the topic of peri-workout nutrition. The more you know!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That'd be fantastic man; as stated previously, I would love to have this be the ground for discussion between all ideologies on the topic of peri-workout nutrition. The more you know!

Cool. Here's some info from my older posts:

Here's the study on various doses of whey in combination with leucine and BCAAs:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24284442
Doses/combinations:
-25g Whey Protein (3g leucine)
-6.25g Whey Protein (0.75g leucine)
-6.25g Whey Protein (added leucine to 3g)
-6.25g Whey Protein (added leucine to 5g)
-6.25g Whey Protein (added leucine to 5g; from added BCAAs instead of just added leucine)

Interestingly, Phospho-mTOR was increased at 1.5 hours in the Whey 25g, Whey 6.25 (3g l) and Whey 6.25 (5gl), but not in the Whey 6.25g or Whey (3g l; BCAAs). The study, along with others, have shown that a suboptimal protein dose (6.25g whey) supplemented with leucine (3g total) can stimulate postprandial MPS rates equivalent to that of 25g whey (with 3g leucine total).

The discussion of the study said this:

Because BCAAs share a common intestinal transporter, differences in amino acid appearance profiles between W6+BCAAs and W6+High-Leu treatments likely represents antagonism between BCAAs for uptake from the gut, which is congruent with data showing that isoleucine and valine compete with and can impede leucine absorption (47). The same effect could be true for the transsarcolemmal BCAA transport because BCAAs share the same transporter at that site (48).

There's also another study that showed increasing the leucine content of EAAs (from 1.87g to 3.5g) taken intra-workout increased post-workout muscle protein synthesis by 33% compared relative to the lower leucine content:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/809.long
There's also a study showing that a combination of 6g EAAs and ~40g carbs taken intra-workout was able to improve strength and fat-free mass by more than EAAs or carbs alone, with no significant difference in fat (all groups lost fat):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16456674
There's also some interesting research on Whey Protein Hydroslate (WPH):

Buckley et al. examined whether hydrolyzed whey protein isolate speeds recovery more effectively than intact whey protein isolate following eccentric exercise [21]. The subjects performed 100 maximal eccentric contractions of their knee extensors and then consumed either 25 g of hydrolyzed whey protein isolate or intact whey protein isolate. Interestingly, peak isometric torque was recovered fully in 6 h in the whey protein hydrolysate group, while it remained suppressed in the intact whey protein group.

The results revealed that whey protein hydrolysate ingestion induced significant increases in skeletal muscle glycogen levels compared with other protein sources or BCAA.
Thus, whey protein hydrolysate appears to enhance the effects of carbohydrate ingestion on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis. Whether whey protein hydrolysate stimulates muscle glucose uptake and glycogen resynthesis in athletes remains to be determined.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2761917/

This makes the pairing of carbs with WPH (over BCAAs) particularly interesting, and, referring back to the low-dose whey + lecuine study, it seems very possible that you can get away with a lower dose of WPH with added leucine to 3-5g total.

With that in mind, I like either 6-10g EAAs with leucine content added to total 3-5g, or ~6g WPH with leucine content added to 3-5g total, plus ~40g carbs (I typically go with Gatorade powder since it's very affordable and can be used to flavor bulk ingredients) intra-workout.

TL;DR
EAAs appear to be more "ideal" than just BCAAs (although that isn't to say that BCAAs are useless). Increasing the leucine content of EAAs and/or Whey Protein (to at lest 3g) increases MPS. The combination of intra-workout EAAs and carbs (Gatorade) was superior to EAAs or carbs alone (and didn't lead to an increase in fat). WPH appears to be superior to BCAAs and other protein sources in regards to post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis, which could make it a particularly interesting EAA source to drink intra-workout with carbs.

My Intra-Workout Amino Recommendations
-EAAs or WPH (which is essentially used as a source of EAAs): 6-10g (with a total leucine content of at least 3g).
-Carbs (if you want them, dose as needed and what fits your macros; I like 40g of carbs from Gatorade powder, so a "premium" carb source isn't always needed, but different people prefer different carb sources (carbs appear to go well with EAAs intra-workout).

I do also like taurine intra-workout, and, while it isn't a necessity, alanylglutamine (or just glutamine and alanine together) is a nice addition to have.

As you mentioned, PeakO2 is also a great addition for endurance.

 

[Ninjo]

Welcome to the Peri-Workout Nutrition Monster Thread!


Thread Goals:

1. Inform the uninformed
2. Further the understanding of those familiar
3. Share valuable information to benefit thread viewers
4. Concentrate focus of nutritional understanding to this crucial window of anabolism
5. Share experiences, advice, supplementation advice, things learned through trial and error. Honestly anything, let's get this thread saturated with information!

Disclaimer: Being a member of Anabolicminds for some time now, I have learned countless nutritional and supplementation strategies though analyzing countless threads and forum topics. I feel that it is time for me to give back to the community which has helped me significantly in my own fitness journey by focusing on a nutrition strategy which I have implemented and seen fantastic results from. S/O to The Solution for his support and pin-point accurate advice since my start on AM. Please feel free to tag those who may be interested, thank you!

So... What is Peri-Workout Nutrition?

Phonetically, the term "peri-workout nutrition" literally means "around-workout nutrition," or, in better phrased terminology, how you structure your nutrient intake around your workouts. This includes not only your pre- and post-workout meals, but also the nutrients you take in during your actual training session. As could be assumed, this is a critical period for nutrient uptake as you are priming your body for the imminent training session, fueling your body during your workout, or re-fueling your body post-workout.

Intra-Workout Nutrition in Relation to Peri-Workout Nutrition

Intra-workout nutrition, or nutrient intake during your workouts, has gained a cult following within the world of fitness. One of the most common sites in any gym nowadays is a guy/girl carrying around a jug of brightly colored liquid. Ask them what it is and they respond "amino acids." As amazing as amino acids are from a nutritional standpoint, the idea of intra-workout does not stop with them whatsoever. There are many factors that come into play when crafting the perfect intra-workout supplement, including ingredients to supplement the "pump," enhance hydration, promote optimal oxygen utilization, and add to recovery/promote the sparing of muscle tissue from physical stress. Intra-workout nutrition is a main component of peri-workout nutrition as it keeps the body primed with nutrients to maintain optimal performance and output

Personal Go-To Ingredients

• Peak O2
• Hydromax Glycerol Powder
• BCAAs (EAAs are fantastic as well, but I tend to stick to 'ole reliable)
• HBCD (Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin)
• Creatine Monohydrate

In follow-up posts, I will go into detail about why I prefer the supplements listed above and the scientific legitimacy behind them. But, for now, I will leave it to you all... How do you want this thread to develop (if at all)? What topics do you feel need addressing? Is there certain studies you would like to see? Supplement spotlights/supplement stack discussions? Peri-workout supplement/food porn? Feel free to expand upon anything previously stated; as stated previously, let's blow this up and spread the word!

Great idea brother! And solid "go to" list of ingredients to get the discussion started. The one thing I question is the inclusion of creatine monohydrate in a peri-wo drink as I am with the understanding that creatine rapidly transforms into creatinine in liquid which is why I dose my creatine separately post-wo.

 

[sonofzeusv2]

Cool. Here's some info from my older posts:

Here's the study on various doses of whey in combination with leucine and BCAAs:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24284442
Doses/combinations:
-25g Whey Protein (3g leucine)
-6.25g Whey Protein (0.75g leucine)
-6.25g Whey Protein (added leucine to 3g)
-6.25g Whey Protein (added leucine to 5g)
-6.25g Whey Protein (added leucine to 5g; from added BCAAs instead of just added leucine)

Interestingly, Phospho-mTOR was increased at 1.5 hours in the Whey 25g, Whey 6.25 (3g l) and Whey 6.25 (5gl), but not in the Whey 6.25g or Whey (3g l; BCAAs). The study, along with others, have shown that a suboptimal protein dose (6.25g whey) supplemented with leucine (3g total) can stimulate postprandial MPS rates equivalent to that of 25g whey (with 3g leucine total).

The discussion of the study said this:

There's also another study that showed increasing the leucine content of EAAs (from 1.87g to 3.5g) taken intra-workout increased post-workout muscle protein synthesis by 33% compared relative to the lower leucine content:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/809.long
There's also a study showing that a combination of 6g EAAs and ~40g carbs taken intra-workout was able to improve strength and fat-free mass by more than EAAs or carbs alone, with no significant difference in fat (all groups lost fat):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16456674
There's also some interesting research on Whey Protein Hydroslate (WPH):


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2761917/

This makes the pairing of carbs with WPH (over BCAAs) particularly interesting, and, referring back to the low-dose whey + lecuine study, it seems very possible that you can get away with a lower dose of WPH with added leucine to 3-5g total.

With that in mind, I like either 6-10g EAAs with leucine content added to total 3-5g, or ~6g WPH with leucine content added to 3-5g total, plus ~40g carbs (I typically go with Gatorade powder since it's very affordable and can be used to flavor bulk ingredients) intra-workout.

TL;DR
EAAs appear to be more "ideal" than just BCAAs (although that isn't to say that BCAAs are useless). Increasing the leucine content of EAAs and/or Whey Protein (to at lest 3g) increases MPS. The combination of intra-workout EAAs and carbs (Gatorade) was superior to EAAs or carbs alone (and didn't lead to an increase in fat). WPH appears to be superior to BCAAs and other protein sources in regards to post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis, which could make it a particularly interesting EAA source to drink intra-workout with carbs.

My Intra-Workout Amino Recommendations
-EAAs or WPH (which is essentially used as a source of EAAs): 6-10g (with a total leucine content of at least 3g).
-Carbs (if you want them, dose as needed and what fits your macros; I like 40g of carbs from Gatorade powder, so a "premium" carb source isn't always needed, but different people prefer different carb sources (carbs appear to go well with EAAs intra-workout).

I do also like taurine intra-workout, and, while it isn't a necessity, alanylglutamine (or just glutamine and alanine together) is a nice addition to have.

As you mentioned, PeakO2 is also a great addition for endurance.

Awesome contribution brother! I will read through and continue the conversation

 

[sonofzeusv2]

Great idea brother! And solid "go to" list of ingredients to get the discussion started. The one thing I question is the inclusion of creatine monohydrate in a peri-wo drink as I am with the understanding that creatine rapidly transforms into creatinine in liquid which is why I dose my creatine separately post-wo.

Thanks man! And honestly that point about the creatine intra workout is something I thought of, do you have any articles on it? Sounds like I may have to switch up my dosing!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Great idea brother! And solid "go to" list of ingredients to get the discussion started. The one thing I question is the inclusion of creatine monohydrate in a peri-wo drink as I am with the understanding that creatine rapidly transforms into creatinine in liquid which is why I dose my creatine separately post-wo.

Here's a PDF from Creapure:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachment****137696

Realistically, even in 25 degree C (77 F) solution, the degradation is basically negligible at 4 hours, and also still very minor (I'd still say negligible) at 8 hours. When the solution is 4 degrees C (39.2 F), degradation is still very minor after days.

 

[sonofzeusv2]

Awesome contribution, this is just what I envisioned this thread to become! I'll post some studies as soon as I'm at a computer

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Awesome contribution, this is just what I envisioned this thread to become! I'll post some studies as soon as I'm at a computer

Thanks, sounds good man. I probably have some more studies to reference too. I'm a big fan of intra-workout ingredients/supplements, especially if I didn't have a big pre-workout meal.

 

[sonofzeusv2]

Absolutely man, planning on a big pre workout meal tomorrow, refeed!

 

[Beta]

In for the info! Thanks for compiling all this. Great idea.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Taurine

With BCAAs (which should? likely occur with EAAs as well, assuming sufficient BCAA content):

Following the period after eccentric exercise, the physiological and blood biochemical markers for DOMS and muscle damage showed improvement in the combination of TAU and BCAA supplementation rather than in the single or placebo supplementations. In conclusion, additional supplement of TAU with BCAA would be a useful way to attenuate DOMS and muscle damages induced by high-intensity exercise.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392882

1g of taurine improved 3-km (1.86-mi) time trial performane by 1.7% relative to placebo.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22855206

1.66g taurine increased fat oxidation during submaximal cycling by 16% relative to placebo.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20739720

Taurine supplementation may reduce DNA damage resulting from exercise, as well as increase exercise capacity (including V02 Max, time to exhaustion, and maximal workload).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15042451

Alanylglutamine

~3g alanylglutamine (taken while playing basketball)
was able to increase post-game shooting percentage by 11.1% and improve visual reaction time relative to water alone.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3316133/

Results demonstrate that AG supplementation provided a significant ergogenic benefit by increasing time to exhaustion during a mild hydration stress. This ergogenic effect was likely mediated by an enhanced fluid and electrolyte uptake.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20181080

AG may also benefit time to exhaustion during high-intensity exercise:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26098280

Also, glutamine + alanine is equally effective as alanylglutamine dipeptide in rate (increased delivery to muscle tissue):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19056244