Carb restriction and loading before endurance event

[booneman77]

I have a half marathon coming up in a few weeks here and was mulling over some thoughts about potential ways to maximize performance...

Knowing that after a period of carb restriction and glycogen depletion the body is primed to super compensate and store supraphysiological amounts of glycogen wouldn't it be optimal to go through a strict carb depletion and then subsequent load immediately (24hrs or so) prior to an endurance event like this?

It seems to me that performance would be maximized by allowing more than the normal amounts of easily accessible glycogen and carbs for quick use during the race. Thoughts?

Also, if anyone has other suggestions on how to optimize acute endurance performance related to nutrition or otherwise I'm all ears

 

[booneman77]

Nobody?

 

[Gutterpump]

I usually bring small liquid carb packs/chews with me, that's about all I know. I'm new to endurance events, so I'm subbing for feedback.

 

[booneman77]

I usually bring small liquid carb packs/chews with me, that's about all I know. I'm new to endurance events, so I'm subbing for feedback.

Ya I know about the intra carbs for during event but I'm more thinking of how to prep/prime and how that might increase the early stages especially until you really get into that rhythm a ways in to a long run. Intra is a no brainer

 

[bighulksmash]

I read somewhere that people did this in the Boston Marathon and increased there speed and total distance of consistency, although i dont know much about running, it says some people went from 3 to 10 days before loading . The people who went above 5 days fatigued faster compared to those who chose 1 to 5 days .im also in for knowledge

 

[booneman77]

I read somewhere that people did this in the Boston Marathon and increased there speed and total distance of consistency, although i dont know much about running, it says some people went from 3 to 10 days before loading . The people who went above 5 days fatigued faster compared to those who chose 1 to 5 days .im also in for knowledge

If you can find that article post the link up!

 

[Gutterpump]

Depleting/reloading makes sense to me. It does work for supersaturing glycogen stores. It's the only way I used to eat. Training in a depleted state will improve your performance once reloaded too, but that's more long-term.

 

[bighulksmash]

If you can find that article post the link up!

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2346013 here it is i read it word for word !!awesome info here bro.

 

[bighulksmash]

http://www.runnersworld.com/fuel-school/how-to-carb-load-for-marathon-week
This one has a diet and was written by a pro runner. If i can reach welterweight ill be running too lol ...

 

[nicksox15]

Do this 5 minutes before the race. If it worked for Michael Scott, it can work for you

 

[nicksox15]

In seriousness I'm interested in hearing more about this, I did a 7 mile race last year and basically only did some intra carb chews

 

[booneman77]

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2346013 here it is i read it word for word !!awesome info here bro.

This looks almost exactly what I was thinking ha. Some good discussion but none of these guys seem to have any hard evidence either. Just a few trial and errors by people who aren't too sure of why this should work.

They seem to be able to do it, but don't understand why or how it should work ha.

 

[booneman77]

In seriousness I'm interested in hearing more about this, I did a 7 mile race last year and basically only did some intra carb chews

This will be my first race over a 5k so a big jump for me. My training has been a bit less than I had wanted ( I think my longest run has only been like 8mi ha) but I hate running and get so bored. Id rather lift and refuse to give up a leg day so I can run ha.

Gonna try to squeeze in some more these next few weeks but I think I can really do myself some favors by maximizing my nutrition leading up to race day.

 

[scherbs]

I have a half marathon coming up in a few weeks here and was mulling over some thoughts about potential ways to maximize performance...

Knowing that after a period of carb restriction and glycogen depletion the body is primed to super compensate and store supraphysiological amounts of glycogen wouldn't it be optimal to go through a strict carb depletion and then subsequent load immediately (24hrs or so) prior to an endurance event like this?

It seems to me that performance would be maximized by allowing more than the normal amounts of easily accessible glycogen and carbs for quick use during the race. Thoughts?

Also, if anyone has other suggestions on how to optimize acute endurance performance related to nutrition or otherwise I'm all ears

Carb loading will help, but only marginally-esp. for a half marathon.
If you do load, the depletion is less important (studies have been mixed) than loading for 2-3 days.

 

[booneman77]

Carb loading will help, but only marginally-esp. for a half marathon.
If you do load, the depletion is less important (studies have been mixed) than loading for 2-3 days.

do you have any links or info on the type, timing, amounts, etc for the depletion or loading?

Is this something that you've tried personally? If so, what was your experience/thoughts on it?

 

[scherbs]

do you have any links or info on the type, timing, amounts, etc for the depletion or loading?

Is this something that you've tried personally? If so, what was your experience/thoughts on it?

Basically, you ramp into a diet that is 70% CHO: 3 days at 50%, 3 days at 70% as you taper down your training (running less as you approach the event)
This has worked very well for me in marathons, I run halfs without loading, but halfs are a different beast for me

 

[Gutterpump]

This has nothing to do with diet, but injectable l-carnitine (with taurine as well) also helps a bunch with cardio capacity. Lightyears beyond oral form, and it is not banned by any sports authority.

Studies have shown an 11% increase in performance, pretty significant:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/03/the-good-and-the-ugly-everything-you-want-to-know-about-the-nike-oregon-project-and-l-carnitine-injections/

 

[booneman77]

Basically, you ramp into a diet that is 70% CHO: 3 days at 50%, 3 days at 70% as you taper down your training (running less as you approach the event)
This has worked very well for me in marathons, I run halfs without loading, but halfs are a different beast for me

That looks like a 6 day load? You said 2-3?

 

[booneman77]

This has nothing to do with diet, but injectable l-carnitine (with taurine as well) also helps a bunch with cardio capacity. Lightyears beyond oral form, and it is not banned by any sports authority.

Studies have shown an 11% increase in performance, pretty significant:
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2015/03/the-good-and-the-ugly-everything-you-want-to-know-about-the-nike-oregon-project-and-l-carnitine-injections/

Wow not something that would've even crossed my mind. Interesting

 

[scherbs]

That looks like a 6 day load? You said 2-3?

50% isn't really a load at all-you are only rolling 70% for 3 days

 

[booneman77]

50% isn't really a load at all-you are only rolling 70% for 3 days

50% of your cals is a ton??? Especially coming from a deplete (if you go that route). I eat low carb mostly anyways so that's a huge difference for me

 

[scherbs]

50% of your cals is a ton??? Especially coming from a deplete (if you go that route). I eat low carb mostly anyways so that's a huge difference for me

50% of cals from carbs is not a ton, he!l, it's basically maintenance for endurance training.
I get the appeal of low carbs generally, but if you are training for performance-esp in an endurance event, carbs are a necessity. You asked for a way to maximize performance in a half marathon and you are balking at an "extra" three days of "high" carbs (which really aren't that high)?

 

[booneman77]

50% of cals from carbs is not a ton, he!l, it's basically maintenance for endurance training.
I get the appeal of low carbs generally, but if you are training for performance-esp in an endurance event, carbs are a necessity. You asked for a way to maximize performance in a half marathon and you are balking at an "extra" three days of "high" carbs (which really aren't that high)?

I'm looking for an acute performance boost though, not a long term training diet. That's the whole reason I asked the original question was because I know my current diet is not built for endurance training and events. I wouldn't want it to be as I could care less about it with the exception of that one day. This why I'm asking for a quick fix, not a long term change.

 

[scherbs]

I'm looking for an acute performance boost though, not a long term training diet. That's the whole reason I asked the original question was because I know my current diet is not built for endurance training and events. I wouldn't want it to be as I could care less about it with the exception of that one day. This why I'm asking for a quick fix, not a long term change.

If you are truly looking for performance, you will need to drop a low carb diet for the time that you are actively training for the half. I've tried doing it LC more times than I can count: it is suboptimal to be sure.
If you are just looking for a boost, go 70% for 3 days. Skip worrying about depletion: all it does is make you feel (and train) like crap with minuscule benefit

 

[Gutterpump]

If you are truly looking for performance, you will need to drop a low carb diet for the time that you are actively training for the half. I've tried doing it LC more times than I can count: it is suboptimal to be sure.
If you are just looking for a boost, go 70% for 3 days. Skip worrying about depletion: all it does is make you feel (and train) like crap with minuscule benefit

I've read an article about how training in a low carb depleted state will give the person tremendous performance boosts come race day, once you carb back up / refeed prior. I'll try to locate the article and post up.

 

[booneman77]

I've read an article about how training in a low carb depleted state will give the person tremendous performance boosts come race day, once you carb back up / refeed prior. I'll try to locate the article and post up.

Would love to see this. Thanks!

 

[Gutterpump]

Would love to see this. Thanks!

Can't seem to locate it now. It's one of the AM articles here though and I believe it was posted within the past 3-4 months. I remember coming across it as I was training for an obstacle course race at the time. I'm not sure of the overall article purpose, but part of it explained how it is advantageous to train for endurance in a carb-restricted state. You won't have the best performance on your training days, but with your body getting accustomed to working harder in a depleted state, there's a big payoff after carbing up for race day. Your body becomes more efficient via training this way, then primed for performance after carbing up. Made sense to me.

 

[booneman77]

Can't seem to locate it now. It's one of the AM articles here though and I believe it was posted within the past 3-4 months. I remember coming across it as I was training for an obstacle course race at the time. I'm not sure of the overall article purpose, but part of it explained how it is advantageous to train for endurance in a carb-restricted state. You won't have the best performance on your training days, but with your body getting accustomed to working harder in a depleted state, there's a big payoff after carbing up for race day. Your body becomes more efficient via training this way, then primed for performance after carbing up. Made sense to me.

Sounds about right to me as well. I'll look around when I have some time this week and throw it here if I find it.

If anyone else finds it do the same please!

 

[scherbs]

Sounds about right to me as well. I'll look around when I have some time this week and throw it here if I find it.

If anyone else finds it do the same please!

There is a school of thought that favors "training low and racing high"-in terms of carb intake.
If you want to go that route-fine. I will tell you that there is no ergogenic benefit on race day to depleting your carbs or training in a depleted state-the research (and my experience) just doesn't back it up. I've tried it and I am much better when I maintain my normal carb intake-which is kinda low for a runner at 45-5o%-and carb up for races.
Do whatever works for you, but for this sub-elite 1/2 marathon runner (I am kinda good), I've described what works the best

 

[booneman77]

There is a school of thought that favors "training low and racing high"-in terms of carb intake.
If you want to go that route-fine. I will tell you that there is no ergogenic benefit on race day to depleting your carbs or training in a depleted state-the research (and my experience) just doesn't back it up. I've tried it and I am much better when I maintain my normal carb intake-which is kinda low for a runner at 45-5o%-and carb up for races.
Do whatever works for you, but for this sub-elite 1/2 marathon runner (I am kinda good), I've described what works the best

I understand what you're saying and appreciate your opinion but as someone who is doing this as a strictly recreational, one-time event, I have no interest in changing my diet longer term for a few hour event. That wouldn't support my bugger picture goals in any way.

 

[scherbs]

I understand what you're saying and appreciate your opinion but as someone who is doing this as a strictly recreational, one-time event, I have no interest in changing my diet longer term for a few hour event. That wouldn't support my bugger picture goals in any way.

Is that case, just to be clear: there is no real benefit to carb depletion prior to loading. Just do 3 days at 70%

 

[booneman77]

Is that case, just to be clear: there is no real benefit to carb depletion prior to loading. Just do 3 days at 70%

Good deal. thanks!