Refeed vs. Cheat Meal vs. Daily Calories

booneman77

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So, I've reached the point where I've decided that I want to stop losing any more weight. I don't want to bulk, but rather maintain or VERY slowly add pure lean mass. My conundrum at this point is that I need to add more calories, but am debating what the best way to do this is...

Current diet - Sun-Fri, 1600kcals, PSMF style; Saturday 2800kcals, refeed (300+g carbs)
*you can say whatever you want about the way this looks, but the results are impossible to argue with. I'm currently in single digit bf and 25lb heavier than last year and hitting PR's in major lifts. It works for me so you can leave that out of the equation.

The debate:

1) Add in a second refeed day on Wednesdays - same cals/carbs as the saturday version

2) Add in a cheat meal on Wednesdays - no planned carb or specific macro setup. just a meal of whatever that will supply an excess amount of calories

3) Add a few calories to all days, keeping the style the same (6PSMF+1refeed)

Thoughts? Other options?
 
Matthew1237

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I'd say go with option 3 - it seems like the other might **** with the positive benefits of your refeed.
 
allbrawn

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So, I've reached the point where I've decided that I want to stop losing any more weight. I don't want to bulk, but rather maintain or VERY slowly add pure lean mass. My conundrum at this point is that I need to add more calories, but am debating what the best way to do this is...

Current diet - Sun-Fri, 1600kcals, PSMF style; Saturday 2800kcals, refeed (300+g carbs)
*you can say whatever you want about the way this looks, but the results are impossible to argue with. I'm currently in single digit bf and 25lb heavier than last year and hitting PR's in major lifts. It works for me so you can leave that out of the equation.

The debate:

1) Add in a second refeed day on Wednesdays - same cals/carbs as the saturday version

2) Add in a cheat meal on Wednesdays - no planned carb or specific macro setup. just a meal of whatever that will supply an excess amount of calories

3) Add a few calories to all days, keeping the style the same (6PSMF+1refeed)

Thoughts? Other options?
What are your macros for your Sunday through Friday diet?
 
booneman77

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What are your macros for your Sunday through Friday diet?
Psmf so roughly 300g ish protein, carbs from veggies and incidentals (roughly 75g total per day, not subtracting fiber... Usable is prob like 25g max) and fats only from incidentals in chicken, powders, etc. (roughly 20g/day)
 
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The best option is the option that suits you, your lifestyle, and whatever provides for balance between you, your job, and your friends.
All options will work, what you decide to do is personal. If you control your cheats and dont binge or go over board they will be as beneficial as a refeed. Same with adding back food slowly (while you could possibly give yourself a nice daily boost like 50+g carbs and 5-10g Fat) right away and then slowly increase.

At the end of the day, what is more beneficial to you relies on what you find reasonable with your schedule, what YOU would want to do instead of what others would suggest or do.
All 3 will merit results, the key factor is consistency and dedication to doing what you do.

Like me, we could easily go to golden corral and down 13 plates of food. Optimal? probably not, far from a cheat and more along the lines of a binge.

Getting a burger + Fry and some dessert once a week as a legit cheat would provide benefits in a reverse or in a deep offseason just treated like another meal moving forward and getting back on the grind the next day or next meal.

If you enjoy doing refeeds, then more power to you. Cheats may also open up your social life and getting meals with family and friends. Again all down to you, your personal decision, and what you find works mentally and physically best for you, and provides for optimal performance in and out of the gym as you reverse out of your diet.


I personally do cheats year round, and save most of those meals with friends/family members as a way to get away from the scale, get away from counting calories for a meal, and enjoying time with others, and enjoying a bite of food without stressing a single calorie.
 
booneman77

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The best option is the option that suits you, your lifestyle, and whatever provides for balance between you, your job, and your friends.
All options will work, what you decide to do is personal. If you control your cheats and dont binge or go over board they will be as beneficial as a refeed. Same with adding back food slowly (while you could possibly give yourself a nice daily boost like 50+g carbs and 5-10g Fat) right away and then slowly increase.

At the end of the day, what is more beneficial to you relies on what you find reasonable with your schedule, what YOU would want to do instead of what others would suggest or do.
All 3 will merit results, the key factor is consistency and dedication to doing what you do.

Like me, we could easily go to golden corral and down 13 plates of food. Optimal? probably not, far from a cheat and more along the lines of a binge.

Getting a burger + Fry and some dessert once a week as a legit cheat would provide benefits in a reverse or in a deep offseason just treated like another meal moving forward and getting back on the grind the next day or next meal.

If you enjoy doing refeeds, then more power to you. Cheats may also open up your social life and getting meals with family and friends. Again all down to you, your personal decision, and what you find works mentally and physically best for you, and provides for optimal performance in and out of the gym as you reverse out of your diet.


I personally do cheats year round, and save most of those meals with friends/family members as a way to get away from the scale, get away from counting calories for a meal, and enjoying time with others, and enjoying a bite of food without stressing a single calorie.
Appreciate the well thought out response. The plan is to try the cheat style first (actually enjoying it as I type this... Nachos and some muffins) since I've always had a bit of a battle with "bro" dieting mentality and the all or nothing approach. If I can prove to myself that I can enjoy some of these food in moderation and not just get fat again then that will be a huge win. Unfortunately the opposite is also true... Should this not work, I'll be on a bro-food diet for life and only play with the qty.

Really the major question was not what I can adhere to as I have basically limitless willpower, but I was curious what benefits or drawbacks there might be to each.

Frankly, my biggest concern is my fat intake. It's exceptionally low all week, however I have yet to see any negative sides from this. My thought was that the cheat might help the most as this will almost force me to eat some fattier foods, since we all know fat makes things taste amazing ha.

The refeed I enjoy, but I usually keep these pretty "clean" which again, limits fat as well as limits food choices to an extent.

The daily cals is probably my last choice for the simple fact that it's easy to eat less with my schedule. I basically eat 1-2 large meals at the end of my day so not having to eat 3000 cals in a sitting of clean food is much more reasonable. Plus I like my veggies and volume foods ha.
 
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Really the major question was not what I can adhere to as I have basically limitless willpower, but I was curious what benefits or drawbacks there might be to each.
.
You just stated the problem
Your mental mindset on food right here. The only drawback is your mental focus to food, and your outlook on food in general.
food = fuel = calories.

We do not get paid to get bro, we do not collect paychecks to weight our food, and we dont collect money for recording our diets on my fitness pal or other caloric tracking devices. The common phrase of moderation and applying it to our lifestyles applies here.

Looking back 3-4-5 years down the road to Sheltering yourself to eating 5 pounds of broccoli a day and making sure you eat 3,000 or 2744 calories in a 5 hour window may make you laugh.
 

GNO

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Appreciate the well thought out response. The plan is to try the cheat style first (actually enjoying it as I type this... Nachos and some muffins) since I've always had a bit of a battle with "bro" dieting mentality and the all or nothing approach. If I can prove to myself that I can enjoy some of these food in moderation and not just get fat again then that will be a huge win. Unfortunately the opposite is also true... Should this not work, I'll be on a bro-food diet for life and only play with the qty.

Really the major question was not what I can adhere to as I have basically limitless willpower, but I was curious what benefits or drawbacks there might be to each.

Frankly, my biggest concern is my fat intake. It's exceptionally low all week, however I have yet to see any negative sides from this. My thought was that the cheat might help the most as this will almost force me to eat some fattier foods, since we all know fat makes things taste amazing ha.

The refeed I enjoy, but I usually keep these pretty "clean" which again, limits fat as well as limits food choices to an extent.

The daily cals is probably my last choice for the simple fact that it's easy to eat less with my schedule. I basically eat 1-2 large meals at the end of my day so not having to eat 3000 cals in a sitting of clean food is much more reasonable. Plus I like my veggies and volume foods ha.
I use to be so strict on my diet that started to affect my social life as I avoided social gatherings with a lot of food like the plague. The best decision I have ever made was to "loosen up", eat in moderation during the week and enjoy a cheat meal a week. Recently (past 3-4 months) I have been having a pint of ice cream every week and still dropping bf... guess who got me hooked on that?

Personally, I plan to increase cals in the next couple of week on a daily basis to around maintenance and still have a re-feed, cheat meal weekly.
booneman77 we need to plan one togeteher (crazy burger or another Monsta) :)
 
Matthew1237

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Really like what was said here and identify with a lot of it. My good friend used to be a diet fanatic. But it really is so much more enjoyable to not take it so seriously (no I don't mean eating like crap) but I try to just follow a general meal plan of servings now. I remember in high school I would freak out missing a meal or messing up my diet. Now I just try to eat similar portions and have an idea of the calories of each meal and try to keep things balanced.
 
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Really like what was said here and identify with a lot of it. My good friend used to be a diet fanatic. But it really is so much more enjoyable to not take it so seriously (no I don't mean eating like crap) but I try to just follow a general meal plan of servings now. I remember in high school I would freak out missing a meal or messing up my diet. Now I just try to eat similar portions and have an idea of the calories of each meal and try to keep things balanced.
and let me ask you something
now that you are less strict, still follow a legit diet 80-90% of the time, and focus more on being balanced are you seeking better results in and out of the gym? i can already assume yes instead of being 100% anal and to the T on everything.
like GNO said, i fell victim to this as well. This is a hobby, its nothing something we do or collect paychecks off of. If you train hard, stick to your diet the majority of the time and leave room for moderation you are going to see results as long as you stay Dedicated and consistent.

In the end this is all about life balance, having fun, and enjoying this hobby we do, which is lifting weights.
 

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and let me ask you something
now that you are less strict, still follow a legit diet 80-90% of the time, and focus more on being balanced are you seeking better results in and out of the gym? i can already assume yes instead of being 100% anal and to the T on everything.
like GNO said, i fell victim to this as well. This is a hobby, its nothing something we do or collect paychecks off of. If you train hard, stick to your diet the majority of the time and leave room for moderation you are going to see results as long as you stay Dedicated and consistent.

In the end this is all about life balance, having fun, and enjoying this hobby we do, which is lifting weights.
You know it bro!

Mental health is also important and will affect your physical health as well. Extremes are not healthy..
 
booneman77

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I use to be so strict on my diet that started to affect my social life as I avoided social gatherings with a lot of food like the plague. The best decision I have ever made was to "loosen up", eat in moderation during the week and enjoy a cheat meal a week. Recently (past 3-4 months) I have been having a pint of ice cream every week and still dropping bf... guess who got me hooked on that?

Personally, I plan to increase cals in the next couple of week on a daily basis to around maintenance and still have a re-feed, cheat meal weekly.
booneman77 we need to plan one togeteher (crazy burger or another Monsta) :)
you know i'm down for it. I'm itching to try some more challenge type stuff ha.
 
booneman77

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and let me ask you something
now that you are less strict, still follow a legit diet 80-90% of the time, and focus more on being balanced are you seeking better results in and out of the gym? i can already assume yes instead of being 100% anal and to the T on everything.
like GNO said, i fell victim to this as well. This is a hobby, its nothing something we do or collect paychecks off of. If you train hard, stick to your diet the majority of the time and leave room for moderation you are going to see results as long as you stay Dedicated and consistent.

In the end this is all about life balance, having fun, and enjoying this hobby we do, which is lifting weights.
This is very true... My biggest problem though has been that as my diet and training have evolved over the last few years (with more control and knowledge) the benefits of it has shown up in spades as well... I'm on the path of "more is better" still. I know at some point there's diminishing returns, and that eventually i'll hit that wall, but until I do, its hard for me to change.

That and I'm a bit of a nerd/classic engineer and love to analyze, plan, tinker, and experiment especially on myself since I know I can control all the variables ha. Its just part of who I am that makes me enjoy some of the rigidity, comfort, and consistency that a strict diet offers
 
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That and I'm a bit of a nerd/classic engineer and love to analyze, plan, tinker, and experiment especially on myself since I know I can control all the variables ha. Its just part of who I am that makes me enjoy some of the rigidity, comfort, and consistency that a strict diet offers
Business Education major, makes two of us. But you need to look at the big picture here. Is this something you will do the rest of your life? no.
Will you continue to eat 5 pounds of broccoli every saturday/sunday on your refeed the rest of your life? Probably not
Are you going to need to go to the gym X or Y amount of times the rest of your life, probably not.
Again its just a passion, a hobby, something you enjoy. So finding what aspect or decision you make that best suits your lifestyle, work schedule, balance with friends/family would be the #1 ideal choice.
 
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booneman77

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Business Education major, makes two of us. But you need to look at the big picture here. Is this something you will do the rest of your life? no.
Will you continue to eat 5 pounds of broccoli every saturday/sunday on your refeed the rest of your life? Probably not
Are you going to need to go to the gym X or Y amount of times the rest of your life, probably not.
Again its just a passion, a hobby, something you enjoy. So finding what aspect or decision you make that best suits your lifestyle, work schedule, balance with friends/family would be the #1 ideal choice.
haha actually I might eat the broccoli forever, not for diet reasons, but because I LOVE broccoli ha. and brussels. Up here in Canada I've been on a total broccoli rabe bender... like x3 11oz bags a night ha. Stuff is so good (and so cheap here... its like 5x the price in the US and hard to find)
 

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Cheap veggies in Canada and cheap junk food in the US... Wonder why there's an obesity epidemic
 
booneman77

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Cheap veggies in Canada and cheap junk food in the US... Wonder why there's an obesity epidemic
Seriously... its insane. Though your meats are pretty pricey here in comparison.

Mexico... whoa. Meat there is like dirt cheap... 1200g steaks for like $15 cooked for you at a restaurant... pure insanity. They even sell boxes of frozen meat in the Monterrey airport... you can buy duty free booze, candy, perfume, and MEAT... like full racks of ribs, half sides of beef, etc.
 
booneman77

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Last weekend of August?
I cant do that weekend, have travel already booked and have to be in ATL the 28th

Sept 19/20 weekend would be best for me. I'm in town both weeks around that
 

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I cant do that weekend, have travel already booked and have to be in ATL the 28th

Sept 19/20 weekend would be best for me. I'm in town both weeks around that
I won't likely be the constraint if I get 1-2 weeks notice ... On you and mkretz really
 

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Do you do any cardio at all booneman77 on the PSMF days?
 
booneman77

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Do you do any cardio at all booneman77 on the PSMF days?
I lift in the mornings and sometimes run in the evenings. I really go by how good I feel and how long of a day I've had/hungry I am ha. I'm training for a half marathon in October tho so I try to do as much as I can stand
 

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I lift in the mornings and sometimes run in the evenings. I really go by how good I feel and how long of a day I've had/hungry I am ha. I'm training for a half marathon in October tho so I try to do as much as I can stand
I hear runners benefit from a good serving carbs the night before a big run...

May I suggest a large poutine. You need protein too, so maybe some cheeseburgers & bacon...
 
booneman77

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I hear runners benefit from a good serving carbs the night before a big run...

May I suggest a large poutine. You need protein too, so maybe some cheeseburgers & bacon...
Actually the last week I'm in TO will be the week before my race... Might have to try this ;)
 

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We need to have a Bro-down like this...
image.jpg
 

GNO

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So much yes. Next year at the Arnold?
That picture was taken in Oakville, Ontario - so see you there in September ;)

Not sure I will be at the 2016 Arnold, but if so .. yes!
 
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That picture was taken in Oakville, Ontario - so see you there in September ;)

Not sure I will be at the 2016 Arnold, but if so .. yes!
Get your ass there
This time don't let your bridge collapse when i have to drop you off.
 

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Get your ass there
This time don't let your bridge collapse when i have to drop you off.
I will have to see where I am living by March first ha...

If I do go next year I will try staying closer to a couple of others on here to make it easier :)
 
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No doubt about it ... If Jeni's is back on their feet would like to hit that up with you.
it is.. my buddy sent me a picture yesterday of a trio of Dark Chocolate, Buckeye, and Brown Brittle
i was 100% jealous
 
booneman77

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Give me a definite date and I'll take off
How far can you come to meet us? I'm not planning on coming down and back except if I was just coming back at the end of a weekend so I wouldn't be able to drive you back after
 

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How far can you come to meet us? I'm not planning on coming down and back except if I was just coming back at the end of a weekend so I wouldn't be able to drive you back after
booneman77 could you meet us at that plaza (the one with the Sobey's grocery store) we met up at before?
 
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So, I've reached the point where I've decided that I want to stop losing any more weight. I don't want to bulk, but rather maintain or VERY slowly add pure lean mass. My conundrum at this point is that I need to add more calories, but am debating what the best way to do this is...

Current diet - Sun-Fri, 1600kcals, PSMF style; Saturday 2800kcals, refeed (300+g carbs)
*you can say whatever you want about the way this looks, but the results are impossible to argue with. I'm currently in single digit bf and 25lb heavier than last year and hitting PR's in major lifts. It works for me so you can leave that out of the equation.

The debate:

1) Add in a second refeed day on Wednesdays - same cals/carbs as the saturday version

2) Add in a cheat meal on Wednesdays - no planned carb or specific macro setup. just a meal of whatever that will supply an excess amount of calories

3) Add a few calories to all days, keeping the style the same (6PSMF+1refeed)

Thoughts? Other options?
When I was between shows (10 weeks between) I did 2 cheat meals/wk. Wednesday and Saturday while.keeping weekly cals the same. I think I was 2 or 3lbs lighter but in much better shape between the 2 shows.

The cheat meals we're pretty HAM sometime but were always post workout. 50gr whey iso, 4 pop tarts, bag of oreos and ice cream.
 
booneman77

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When I was between shows (10 weeks between) I did 2 cheat meals/wk. Wednesday and Saturday while.keeping weekly cals the same. I think I was 2 or 3lbs lighter but in much better shape between the 2 shows.

The cheat meals we're pretty HAM sometime but were always post workout. 50gr whey iso, 4 pop tarts, bag of oreos and ice cream.
Damn that is a beast cheat meal ha.

So you kept weekly cals the same meaning you just replaced some other meals (assuming a couple or more) with one big cheat?
 
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Damn that is a beast cheat meal ha.

So you kept weekly cals the same meaning you just replaced some other meals (assuming a couple or more) with one big cheat?
he replaced 2 a week with cheats.
I have seen some clients in prep do upwared to 3 cheats a week similar to DW and come in and win the overall.
 
booneman77

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he replaced 2 a week with cheats.
I have seen some clients in prep do upwared to 3 cheats a week similar to DW and come in and win the overall.
Well ou can't directly replace a normal meal with a cheat meal and still keep the same weekly cals... That doesn't add up
 
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The key factor here is moderation. If you ate a cheat meal your not going to track it, and if you kept the same weekly kcals but added in a cheat that would be like a small boost in calories instead of adding more to each day, or increasing the amount on a refeed especially when reverseing and finding ways to add calories. Just like i addressed in post #1. How you want to do so is your personal preference and what fits your lifestyle best. a Cheat would be a great way to not count kcals, enjoy a meal, not stress over it, and move forward . All your doing is replacing one meal and not tracking it.

. My conundrum at this point is that I need to add more calories, but am debating what the best way to do this is...

From your Original Post.
 

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