Finding balance in eating....

kittykat07

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I have been a competitor and now after I have officially stopped, I keep going back to eating like that and it's frustrating..
I've tried iifym and other eating plans, only ending up eating dry food and boring foods...with getting down on myself for eating any type of sugary/ salty junky foods....

How do you find balance and is there a diet that consist of such a balance??? I've battled with this for years....
 
AntM1564

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Flexible dieting. Follow the 80/20 rule or 90/10 rule. Have 8-90 percent of your cals come from "clean" or "bro" foods and 10-20 percent from "dirty" foods. This has helped me with balance. This does not have to be followed daily either. There are some days where all of my foods are "bro" foods.
 
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I have been a competitor and now after I have officially stopped, I keep going back to eating like that and it's frustrating..
I've tried iifym and other eating plans, only ending up eating dry food and boring foods...with getting down on myself for eating any type of sugary/ salty junky foods....

How do you find balance and is there a diet that consist of such a balance??? I've battled with this for years....
Read this article

http://wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/

The two most commonly cited characteristics of foods considered clean are a lack of processing and a high nutrient density. Let’s look at processing first. Foods in their whole, naturally occurring state are often deemed clean. In contrast, foods that are altered or removed from their original state are stripped of the clean stamp. Is this demerit warranted? As we’ll see, this is not a reliable method of judgment for all foods. By this definition, most supplements are dirty, since they often undergo extensive processing and are far-removed from their original source.
To use a common example, whey is doubly processed in the sense that it’s not only a powdered form of milk protein, but it’s a separated fraction of milk protein. Yet, when combining the results of standard ranking methods (biological value, protein efficiency ratio, net protein utilization, and protein digestibility corrected amino acid score), whey has a higher total than all other proteins tested, including beef, egg, milk, and soy [5]. Furthermore, research has shown not only its benefits for training applications [6], but whey has a surprisingly wide range of potential for clinical applications as well [7-10]. Therefore, despite whey being a refined/processed food, it has multiple benefits and minimal downsides.



Applying Moderation: The 10-20% Guideline

For those hoping that I’ll tell you to have fun eating whatever you want, you’re in luck. But, like everything in life, you’ll have to moderate your indulgence, and the 10-20% guideline is the best way I’ve found to do this. There currently is no compelling evidence suggesting that a diet whose calories are 80-90% from whole & minimally processed foods is not prudent enough for maximizing health, longevity, body composition, or training performance. As a matter of fact, research I just discussed points to the possibility that it’s more psychologically sound to allow a certain amount of flexibility for indulgences rather than none at all. And just to reiterate, processed does not always mean devoid of nutritional value. Whey and whey/casein blends are prime examples of nutritional powerhouses that happen to be removed from their original food matrix.

Basically, discretionary calories comprise the margin of leftover calories that can be used flexibly once essential nutrient needs are met. Coincidentally, the USDA’s discretionary calorie allotment averages at approximately 10-20% of total calories [27]. Take note that discretionary calories are not just confined to added sugars. Any food or beverage is fair game. The USDA’s system is still far from perfect, since it includes naturally-occurring fats in certain foods as part of the discretionary calorie allotment. This is an obvious holdover from the fat-phobic era that the USDA clings to, despite substantial evidence to the contrary [28].
It’s important to keep in mind that protein and fat intake should not be compromised for the sake of fitting discretionary foods into the diet. In other words, make sure discretionary intake doesn’t consistently displace essential micro- & macronutrient needs, and this includes minimum daily protein and fat targets, which vary individually. This may be tough to accept, but alcohol is not an essential nutrient. Its risks can swiftly trump its benefits if it’s consumed in excess, so it falls into the discretionary category.

Final Note: Linear Versus Nonlinear Distribution

A legitimate question is, what’s the best way to distribute discretionary calories? Should they be confined to a daily limit, or can it be a weekly limit? The best answer is to let personal preference decide. If we use a 2000 kcal diet as an example, a flat/linear approach would mean that 200-400 kcal per day can come from whatever you want, while meeting essential needs otherwise in the diet. Weekly, this translates to 1400-2800 kcal, depending on the factors I previously discussed. One nonlinear option would be to break the weekly allotment in half, where 2 days per week you indulge in 700-1400 kcal of whatever you want, keeping the remaining 5 days relatively Spartan. Again, there is no universally superior method of distributing the discretionary allotment. The same principle applies to the choice of foods to fulfill it. Honoring personal preference is one of the most powerful yet underrated tactics for achieving optimal health and body composition. And that’s the nitty-gritty as I see it.
 
JudoJosh

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From the original post it appears you have already realized the arbitrary line of good and bad foods is silly but yet still end up being hard on yourself for eating what is typically considered as bad.

Is that correct?
 
choccyswag

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Eat healthy and get kcals in with the right macro balance that works for you for most of the time. Go silly some of the time (like friday nights, out on a date, family whatevers). One 'silly' meal a week isn't going to make a massive difference. Too many rules is too hard to follow and it isn't fun.
 
AntM1564

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Read this article

http://wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/

The two most commonly cited characteristics of foods considered clean are a lack of processing and a high nutrient density. Let’s look at processing first. Foods in their whole, naturally occurring state are often deemed clean. In contrast, foods that are altered or removed from their original state are stripped of the clean stamp. Is this demerit warranted? As we’ll see, this is not a reliable method of judgment for all foods. By this definition, most supplements are dirty, since they often undergo extensive processing and are far-removed from their original source.
To use a common example, whey is doubly processed in the sense that it’s not only a powdered form of milk protein, but it’s a separated fraction of milk protein. Yet, when combining the results of standard ranking methods (biological value, protein efficiency ratio, net protein utilization, and protein digestibility corrected amino acid score), whey has a higher total than all other proteins tested, including beef, egg, milk, and soy [5]. Furthermore, research has shown not only its benefits for training applications [6], but whey has a surprisingly wide range of potential for clinical applications as well [7-10]. Therefore, despite whey being a refined/processed food, it has multiple benefits and minimal downsides.



Applying Moderation: The 10-20% Guideline

For those hoping that I’ll tell you to have fun eating whatever you want, you’re in luck. But, like everything in life, you’ll have to moderate your indulgence, and the 10-20% guideline is the best way I’ve found to do this. There currently is no compelling evidence suggesting that a diet whose calories are 80-90% from whole & minimally processed foods is not prudent enough for maximizing health, longevity, body composition, or training performance. As a matter of fact, research I just discussed points to the possibility that it’s more psychologically sound to allow a certain amount of flexibility for indulgences rather than none at all. And just to reiterate, processed does not always mean devoid of nutritional value. Whey and whey/casein blends are prime examples of nutritional powerhouses that happen to be removed from their original food matrix.

Basically, discretionary calories comprise the margin of leftover calories that can be used flexibly once essential nutrient needs are met. Coincidentally, the USDA’s discretionary calorie allotment averages at approximately 10-20% of total calories [27]. Take note that discretionary calories are not just confined to added sugars. Any food or beverage is fair game. The USDA’s system is still far from perfect, since it includes naturally-occurring fats in certain foods as part of the discretionary calorie allotment. This is an obvious holdover from the fat-phobic era that the USDA clings to, despite substantial evidence to the contrary [28].
It’s important to keep in mind that protein and fat intake should not be compromised for the sake of fitting discretionary foods into the diet. In other words, make sure discretionary intake doesn’t consistently displace essential micro- & macronutrient needs, and this includes minimum daily protein and fat targets, which vary individually. This may be tough to accept, but alcohol is not an essential nutrient. Its risks can swiftly trump its benefits if it’s consumed in excess, so it falls into the discretionary category.

Final Note: Linear Versus Nonlinear Distribution

A legitimate question is, what’s the best way to distribute discretionary calories? Should they be confined to a daily limit, or can it be a weekly limit? The best answer is to let personal preference decide. If we use a 2000 kcal diet as an example, a flat/linear approach would mean that 200-400 kcal per day can come from whatever you want, while meeting essential needs otherwise in the diet. Weekly, this translates to 1400-2800 kcal, depending on the factors I previously discussed. One nonlinear option would be to break the weekly allotment in half, where 2 days per week you indulge in 700-1400 kcal of whatever you want, keeping the remaining 5 days relatively Spartan. Again, there is no universally superior method of distributing the discretionary allotment. The same principle applies to the choice of foods to fulfill it. Honoring personal preference is one of the most powerful yet underrated tactics for achieving optimal health and body composition. And that’s the nitty-gritty as I see it.
I was looking for that when I posted yesterday. I'll have to bookmark it when I get home.
 
kittykat07

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From the original post it appears you have already realized the arbitrary line of good and bad foods is silly but yet still end up being hard on yourself for eating what is typically considered as bad.

Is that correct?
Yeah bro, your exactly right. And then stress of it and the way I was (loosely) taught by coaches, most of the 10-20% if bad foods are forbidden and it's caused me to have a HUGE negatively to foods, period!!!
I'm trying to bulk and I know for myself, I need more help than bland chicken tits, rice, beef, eggs and oats!!!
 
Shasow

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So your finding it hard to eat unhealthy?

Am I missing something here? Lol
 
kittykat07

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Eat healthy and get kcals in with the right macro balance that works for you for most of the time. Go silly some of the time (like friday nights, out on a date, family whatevers). One 'silly' meal a week isn't going to make a massive difference. Too many rules is too hard to follow and it isn't fun.
I agree with you completely... I'm so frustrated and end up eating horrible, tasteless foods!!!
 
choccyswag

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But healthy does not mean tasteless, it actually tastes really good tbh!
 
JudoJosh

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Yeah bro, your exactly right. And then stress of it and the way I was (loosely) taught by coaches, most of the 10-20% if bad foods are forbidden and it's caused me to have a HUGE negatively to foods, period!!!
I'm trying to bulk and I know for myself, I need more help than bland chicken tits, rice, beef, eggs and oats!!!
Sounds like you developed a bad relationship with food over the years.

Honestly, what you need is counseling to overcome this as it sounds like a borderline eating disorder. While orthorexia isn't officially a disorder yet, I would try a find a therapist who is familiar with the disorder and is competent enough to treat it. If you Google orthorexia you may be able to find some online resources to help get your started. Basically you want to take it slow. Don't expect to fix your realtionship with food overnight. The way you are used to eating, what people refer to as "clean" eating isn't necessarily bad. However, it becomes bad when if turns into an obsession/fixation and negatively effects your life, as in interferes with you decision making. So for now, I would say continue with the clean eating and work on having at least 1 "treat" a day, and by treat I am reffering to something you would consider to be a "bad" food choice. Pay attention to your feelings about this food. Try and think through them rationally and remember, even if it is "bad" one a day won't hurt your progress. Try and avoid feeling guilty or like you did something bad afterwords. This is where a therapist is very helpful.

Best of luck
 
kittykat07

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Sounds like you developed a bad relationship with food over the years.

Honestly, what you need is counseling to overcome this as it sounds like a borderline eating disorder. While orthorexia isn't officially a disorder yet, I would try a find a therapist who is familiar with the disorder and is competent enough to treat it. If you Google orthorexia you may be able to find some online resources to help get your started. Basically you want to take it slow. Don't expect to fix your realtionship with food overnight. The way you are used to eating, what people refer to as "clean" eating isn't necessarily bad. However, it becomes bad when if turns into an obsession/fixation and negatively effects your life, as in interferes with you decision making. So for now, I would say continue with the clean eating and work on having at least 1 "treat" a day, and by treat I am reffering to something you would consider to be a "bad" food choice. Pay attention to your feelings about this food. Try and think through them rationally and remember, even if it is "bad" one a day won't hurt your progress. Try and avoid feeling guilty or like you did something bad afterwords. This is where a therapist is very helpful.

Best of luck
I don't think it's a disorder, cause I have times where I will eat "non clean" foods and feel fine but then in the morning or later that day, I feel sleepy, lethargic, and bad that I enjoyed that food.

I do enjoy CHEAT FOODS, so to speak... But with trying to gain muscle and no fat, that's where my guilt comes in and I start to feel like I am prohibiting my gains.... Does that make sense??
 
Shasow

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Sort of. But I'm more interested in how you feel after eating clean. I'm struggling to see why you'd want to get away from it? Seriously.

It's a bit like saying "I went in the army for 5 years as a young adult and it taught me discipline and gave me an achiever mindset, it sucks.... how do I get rid of this?"

If you are struggling with calories (which I suspect is the real issue here) eat clean as you normally do but complement each meal with a nice desert. You can even find healthy kind of alternative deserts these days which are yummy. Problem solved.
 
kittykat07

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Sort of. But I'm more interested in how you feel after eating clean. I'm struggling to see why you'd want to get away from it? Seriously.

It's a bit like saying "I went in the army for 5 years as a young adult and it taught me discipline and gave me an achiever mindset, it sucks.... how do I get rid of this?"

If you are struggling with calories (which I suspect is the real issue here) eat clean as you normally do but complement each meal with a nice desert. You can even find healthy kind of alternative deserts these days which are yummy. Problem solved.
Think u hit it right on the nail...
Doing they iifym was hard for me cause I have no time to calculate. I would love the freedom but the reality is I can't get my head around the use for the junk part of it for gaining muscle purpose.

I'm fine when it comes to eating clean. Sometimes I feel like I cheat myself out of ENJOYABLE FOODS.
 
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Think u hit it right on the nail...
Doing they iifym was hard for me cause I have no time to calculate. I would love the freedom but the reality is I can't get my head around the use for the junk part of it for gaining muscle purpose.

I'm fine when it comes to eating clean. Sometimes I feel like I cheat myself out of ENJOYABLE FOODS.
Eating clean is subjective. one considers cereal unclean but in reality there are micronutrients in those sources
some say diary is unclean but it is loaded with vitamin D, Calcium and various other micronutrients.

You realize the problem is yourself and your mental mindset. Please read the article i posted above it will help you greatly

http://www.muscleforlife.com/what-is-if-it-fits-your-macros-and-does-it-work/

Here is another great one:

hat I mean is if you want to lose weight while also maintaining as much lean mass as possible, you need to do more than just maintain a caloric deficit.

You need to ensure you get enough protein every day to preserve muscle.
You need to ensure you eat enough carbs, which provide your muscles with the glycogen stores needed to maintain training intensity.
(And in case you’re worried that eating carbs will make you fat, check out my article on carbohydrates and weight loss to learn why this isn’t true.)

You need to ensure you eat enough healthy fats, which play an important role in hormone synthesis.
This is why counting macros is superior to counting just calories. It allows you to focus on improving body composition, not simply dropping or gaining pounds.




f you eat too much junk food, and too few healthy foods, you will develop vitamin and mineral deficiencies that can cause many different health problems.

Furthermore…

When we consider eating a lot of high-glycemic carbohydrates, we shouldn’t ignore research associating increased consumption with an increased risk for chronic disease.
You don’t have to completely abstain from high-glycemic carbs, but it’s much smarter to rely mainly on medium- and low-GI options.

If we eat too much low-quality, processed meat, we may be increasing our risk of cancer.
Sure, our bodies can use McDonalds burger patties to build muscle, and we could use flexible dieting to eat them every day, but is it worth the potential health risks?

The more trans fats (found in many processed foods) we eat, the higher our risk of heart disease, diabetes, infertility, and more.
There’s a reason why the Institute of Medicine recommends that our trans fat intake be “as low as possible.” The stuff is bad.

My point is health matters more than how you look.

Being shredded doesn’t matter if your hormone profile is whacked, your immune system is suppressed, and your body is starving for nutrients.
 
Shasow

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Think u hit it right on the nail...
Doing they iifym was hard for me cause I have no time to calculate. I would love the freedom but the reality is I can't get my head around the use for the junk part of it for gaining muscle purpose.

I'm fine when it comes to eating clean. Sometimes I feel like I cheat myself out of ENJOYABLE FOODS.
Forget junk food and don't feel bad for doing so that's insane. I can't stand 80% of it and neither can most people once they get away from it and begin training, etc. living a better lifestyle, it will do just as you said make you feel sh*ty, who wants that? And you certainly don't need junk food to gain muscle. You need protein and amino acids. Yes don't be in a calorie deficit obviously, but you don't need junk food to get enough cals either.

Any other questions or thoughts fire away see if I can help so e more but that's pretty clear.
 
kittykat07

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Eating clean is subjective. one considers cereal unclean but in reality there are micronutrients in those sources
some say diary is unclean but it is loaded with vitamin D, Calcium and various other micronutrients.

You realize the problem is yourself and your mental mindset. Please read the article i posted above it will help you greatly

http://www.muscleforlife.com/what-is-if-it-fits-your-macros-and-does-it-work/

Here is another great one:

hat I mean is if you want to lose weight while also maintaining as much lean mass as possible, you need to do more than just maintain a caloric deficit.

You need to ensure you get enough protein every day to preserve muscle.
You need to ensure you eat enough carbs, which provide your muscles with the glycogen stores needed to maintain training intensity.
(And in case you’re worried that eating carbs will make you fat, check out my article on carbohydrates and weight loss to learn why this isn’t true.)

You need to ensure you eat enough healthy fats, which play an important role in hormone synthesis.
This is why counting macros is superior to counting just calories. It allows you to focus on improving body composition, not simply dropping or gaining pounds.




f you eat too much junk food, and too few healthy foods, you will develop vitamin and mineral deficiencies that can cause many different health problems.

Furthermore…

When we consider eating a lot of high-glycemic carbohydrates, we shouldn’t ignore research associating increased consumption with an increased risk for chronic disease.
You don’t have to completely abstain from high-glycemic carbs, but it’s much smarter to rely mainly on medium- and low-GI options.

If we eat too much low-quality, processed meat, we may be increasing our risk of cancer.
Sure, our bodies can use McDonalds burger patties to build muscle, and we could use flexible dieting to eat them every day, but is it worth the potential health risks?

The more trans fats (found in many processed foods) we eat, the higher our risk of heart disease, diabetes, infertility, and more.
There’s a reason why the Institute of Medicine recommends that our trans fat intake be “as low as possible.” The stuff is bad.

My point is health matters more than how you look.

Being shredded doesn’t matter if your hormone profile is whacked, your immune system is suppressed, and your body is starving for nutrients.
Gosh, that big time helped!!
I see where the fitness world has warped my mind and sense of food... Hints the reason y I don't compete anymore... I got tired of being cranky and my moods were all over the place... I loved it but hated it at the same time!!! I just want balance in my life and I feel like I can have that with other foods incorporated in there too...
 
kittykat07

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Forget junk food and don't feel bad for doing so that's insane. I can't stand 80% of it and neither can most people once they get away from it and begin training, etc. living a better lifestyle, it will do just as you said make you feel sh*ty, who wants that? And you certainly don't need junk food to gain muscle. You need protein and amino acids. Yes don't be in a calorie deficit obviously, but you don't need junk food to get enough cals either.

Any other questions or thoughts fire away see if I can help so e more but that's pretty clear.
I can eat junky goods but not in over abundance, as my mind thinks....
I just want balance in a life after competing, which has hurt my love of once yummie foods!!!
 
breezy11

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I agree with you completely... I'm so frustrated and end up eating horrible, tasteless foods!!!
But healthy does not mean tasteless, it actually tastes really good tbh!
This. Spices, seasonings, sauces, and different methods of cooking allow for typical bland foods to become enjoyable.
I agree with healthy food not having to be bland at all; learning how to cook can go a long way. The vast majority of what I eat is very healthy and I enjoy every bit of it (I'm not afraid to and do eat "less healthy" foods at times as well). I brought 2lbs of chicken to work today (I'll have turkey and beef too), which is broken down into 8oz meals, all tasting completely different and delicious.

I don't want to go too far off topic, but here's a quick suggestion for cooking chicken breasts in bulk:

-pre heat oven to 350
-line baking sheet with tin foil
-put chicken on foil and coat generously with alderwood smoked sea salt, fresh cracked black pepper, and garlic powder
-cover chicken with foil (important)
-bake for 30 mins

That's usually how I prepare my chicken when prepping food for a few days. It comes out very moist (can slice with the side of a fork) with great flavor. I'll either eat it as is, which is delicious, or use different sauces/marinades/oils with it.

As for fitting in some more "enjoyable foods", I'd suggest trying to replace a meal or part of a meal with something that has similar calories/macros once in a while. For example, instead of chicken and rice for your post wo meal have some cereal with egg whites and protein powder as milk, or replace the rice with a couple waffles or some pasta, or make protein pancakes, etc. If a lack of structure with your nutrition worries you, plan one or two of these "free meals" per week ahead of time.
 
kittykat07

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I agree with healthy food not having to be bland at all; learning how to cook can go a long way. The majority of what I eat is very healthy and I enjoy every bit of it (I'm not afraid to and do eat "less healthy" foods as well). I brought 2lbs of chicken to work today (I'll have turkey and beef as well), which is broken down into 8oz meals, all tasting completely different and delicious.

I don't want to go too far off topic, but here's a quick suggestion for cooking chicken breasts in bulk:

-pre heat oven to 350
-line baking sheet with tin foil
-put chicken on foil and coat generously with alderwood smoked sea salt, fresh cracked black pepper, and garlic powder
-cover chicken with foil (important)
-bake for 30 mins

That's usually how I prepare my chicken when prepping food for a few days. It comes out very moist (can slice with the side of a fork) with great flavor . I'll either eat it as is, which is delicious, or use different sauces/marinades/oils with it.

As for fitting in some more "enjoyable foods", I'd suggest trying to replace a meal or part of a meal with something that has similar calories/macros once in a while. For example, instead of chicken and rice for your post wo meal have some cereal with egg whites and protein powder as milk, or replace the rice with a couple waffles or some pasta, or make protein pancakes, etc. If a lack of structure with your nutrition worries you, plan one or two of these "free meals" per week ahead of time.
I have been wanting to talk to u and have tried in other forums, apparently u are full at the moment. I have reached out to other iifym eaters and will have someone help me to at least clear my head of the "FEAR OF" and make better, yet broader choices for me....

Thanks again for all ur help... I just wanna be somewhat normal and yet lift heavy and see my gains without feeling like I'm sabotaging my gains and time!!!
 
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Gosh, that big time helped!!
I see where the fitness world has warped my mind and sense of food... Hints the reason y I don't compete anymore... I got tired of being cranky and my moods were all over the place... I loved it but hated it at the same time!!! I just want balance in my life and I feel like I can have that with other foods incorporated in there too...
Sometimes the hardest decisions are the best decisions like breezy said if you vary your sources but still hit your same intake at the end of the day you are making strides
 
kittykat07

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Sometimes the hardest decisions are the best decisions like breezy said if you vary your sources but still hit your same intake at the end of the day you are making strides

It's a long story but being (once) in a place of plenty choices, to devolving a (seemingly) healthy way to eat, then to competition diet after diet, to hating foods (unclean/junk type foods), to iifym way, then to always reverting back to competition diet, (from COACH TO COACH TO COACH)....all the while being frustrated, when others around eat GOD KNOWS whatever (of which I just don't see that that type of food is doing them any good, (coming from a place I once battled with food and trying so hard to lose weight as a "Youngin"....) it's been a roller coaster for me and I still battle daily....
But I do love to eat clean and cheat on occasion but I get hard on myself (sometimes) eating those things....

It's crazy but I feel like what once was a seemingly good idea to do has warped my mind to believe all over the place...

But I'm just Peachy, lol!!!
 
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it's been a roller coaster for me and I still battle daily....
But I do love to eat clean and cheat on occasion but I get hard on myself (sometimes) eating those things....
The best way to overcome a problem is to attack it head on.
You know what you need to do, now the ball is in your hands to make the change for the better and improve your relationship with food.
 

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balance eating is good no doubt for that
 
Dulce

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I agree with you completely... I'm so frustrated and end up eating horrible, tasteless foods!!!

i need your problem :). I enjoy tasty, fun (but bad food) far too often ;). Can we switch problems?

I need to have cheat meals. I love eating. cheat meals help me stay motivated and on track. Could I be leaner? Yes. Is it worth it to me to negate all forms of junk food for the rest of my life to be at 5% bodyfat. No.
 

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