Refeed frequency not on keto

TyMan14

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What's up guys

I know this has probably been answered but I've searched around a bit and haven't found what I'm looking for.

So I'm doing Jim stopanis shortcut to shred and I'm also following his nutrition plan. I weighed 220 at the start and I'm in week 4 so I'm at .5g carbs/lbbw(110). He calls for a refeed once a week in weeks 4-6 on the off day. I have a few
Questions about this

I have it nailed down what I'll eat and whatnot as its what worked for me when I did keto. However,
I feel like the carbs aren't low enough and my bf isn't low enough (13ish%) to warrant such frequent carb ups. I'm finishing the week and today would be the only time ill have time to eat all those carbs (I'm off work) and I've only been low carb since last Saturday and its a training day. Do you still think I would benefit from the refeed?

With everything I've brought with me to eat for the day at school I'm at 150p, 60c, 29f so I can definitely work with that to start my refeed. Please help with some insight because this is the first time I've ever dieted without going straight keto.

Thanks guys!
 
EMPIREMIND

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I would do exactly what the plan calls for and dont deviate. If its a week before refeed, then take the full week before the refeed. Sometimes your body take almost a week after a refeed to eve. Reach keto again. Dont break cycle for convienence. Thats just my opinion. Ive done great eith programs when i follwed them to a t. When i deviated, i got subpar results.
 
TyMan14

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I would do exactly what the plan calls for and dont deviate. If its a week before refeed, then take the full week before the refeed. Sometimes your body take almost a week after a refeed to eve. Reach keto again. Dont break cycle for convienence. Thats just my opinion. Ive done great eith programs when i follwed them to a t. When i deviated, i got subpar results.
Exactly what I wanted to hear! I'm gonna have a cheat meal, and otherwise fill in with some sweet potatoes and oatmeal at 4k calories for the day (440) carbs just like it says. Should be a fun day!
 
EMPIREMIND

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Exactly what I wanted to hear! I'm gonna have a cheat meal, and otherwise fill in with some sweet potatoes and oatmeal at 4k calories for the day (440) carbs just like it says. Should be a fun day!
Sound like it bro. I love refeeds. Also keep in mind those programs can only get you so far. If you dont reach where you want, run it again or do another... Why not lol. Sometimes they advertise it better than what it is. I got drastic results on kris gethins 12 week and 4 week dtp, but i didnt have the same results in that time he claimed i would.
 
TyMan14

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Sound like it bro. I love refeeds. Also keep in mind those programs can only get you so far. If you dont reach where you want, run it again or do another... Why not lol. Sometimes they advertise it better than what it is. I got drastic results on kris gethins 12 week and 4 week dtp, but i didnt have the same results in that time he claimed i would.
I did the DTP right before this plan to try to maintain mass while working on my endurance. Dropped strength a bit, but i lost weight without trying (ate 3500 cals a day) and looked great on it. The pumps were fantastic! Im planning on doing this one a couple times in a row. Debating if I want to start the diet over (up cals based on my new starting weight) or stay at the .5g carbs/lb bodyweight and drop from there as I see fit. Not sure yet. Any thoughts?
 
EMPIREMIND

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I did the DTP right before this plan to try to maintain mass while working on my endurance. Dropped strength a bit, but i lost weight without trying (ate 3500 cals a day) and looked great on it. The pumps were fantastic! Im planning on doing this one a couple times in a row. Debating if I want to start the diet over (up cals based on my new starting weight) or stay at the .5g carbs/lb bodyweight and drop from there as I see fit. Not sure yet. Any thoughts?
I would finish what you started and then reassess bro. I personally put on 45 lbs in 5 weeks with dtp lmao. All natural too. Trained like crazy and ate 5000 cals per day lmao
 
TyMan14

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I would finish what you started and then reassess bro. I personally put on 45 lbs in 5 weeks with dtp lmao. All natural too. Trained like crazy and ate 5000 cals per day lmao
45lbs?? Typo?? lol. So far this diet is working well. Ended up refeeding and enjoying some not so healthy foods.. had a small browie and a "like it" (small) ice cream bowl with a waffle cone and a small single serving of some baked french fries and some bbq sauce on my ham sandwiches. Otherwise all carbs were oats, a protein bar with added fiber, and some wheat bread. Came to 4200 cals, 450 carbs,350 protein, 120 fat which is almost exactly what the diet called for. Went over by like 150 cals but the mental break was nice. Im getting a pump just typing right now lol.

Hoping that this does the trick for me. After the 6 weeks are complete, Ill reassess where Im at but I think Im going to stick to this training protocol. The diet is where the manipulation might happen. Might just run the program a second time as thats what Stopanni recommends. Hopefully the 12 weeks is enough to get me to 10% so I can do a slow recomp for a little while over summer and not have to cut too much harder.
 
EMPIREMIND

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45lbs?? Typo?? lol. So far this diet is working well. Ended up refeeding and enjoying some not so healthy foods.. had a small browie and a "like it" (small) ice cream bowl with a waffle cone and a small single serving of some baked french fries and some bbq sauce on my ham sandwiches. Otherwise all carbs were oats, a protein bar with added fiber, and some wheat bread. Came to 4200 cals, 450 carbs,350 protein, 120 fat which is almost exactly what the diet called for. Went over by like 150 cals but the mental break was nice. Im getting a pump just typing right now lol.

Hoping that this does the trick for me. After the 6 weeks are complete, Ill reassess where Im at but I think Im going to stick to this training protocol. The diet is where the manipulation might happen. Might just run the program a second time as thats what Stopanni recommends. Hopefully the 12 weeks is enough to get me to 10% so I can do a slow recomp for a little while over summer and not have to cut too much harder.
Thats whats up bro. Thats alot of cals for a shred tho no? Or thats just on refeed days?


Yea i put in 45 pounds. I did kris gethins 12 week transformation and added a few weeks to it. No cheat, no alcohol, no fats fruits dairy or sugars for that time. 7 meals a day, 2 cardios sessions a day plus weights. I lost 25 lbs and was shredded for real. Then did dtp, drank a gallon of coconute water a day, ate like crazy, maybe 5600 cals a day. Fats, fruits and dairy reintroduced. Started creatine and beta alanine at that time. My body absorbed all of it like a sponge. I put on serious size fast. Itwas because of the anabolic rebound and then the reintroduction of nutrients and such intense training.
 
TyMan14

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Thats whats up bro. Thats alot of cals for a shred tho no? Or thats just on refeed days?


Yea i put in 45 pounds. I did kris gethins 12 week transformation and added a few weeks to it. No cheat, no alcohol, no fats fruits dairy or sugars for that time. 7 meals a day, 2 cardios sessions a day plus weights. I lost 25 lbs and was shredded for real. Then did dtp, drank a gallon of coconute water a day, ate like crazy, maybe 5600 cals a day. Fats, fruits and dairy reintroduced. Started creatine and beta alanine at that time. My body absorbed all of it like a sponge. I put on serious size fast. Itwas because of the anabolic rebound and then the reintroduction of nutrients and such intense training.
Jeeze thats some intense progress!! Congrats!

And that was just refeed calories. Every day my macros/cals
2790 cals
330 protein
110 fat
110 carbs

Seems to be working pretty well at this point!
 
EMPIREMIND

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Jeeze thats some intense progress!! Congrats!

And that was just refeed calories. Every day my macros/cals
2790 cals
330 protein
110 fat
110 carbs

Seems to be working pretty well at this point!
Nice. How much do you weigh?
 
EMPIREMIND

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Oo ok. Yea thats sounds about right. Id be doing the same on a cut. From what i remeber he calls for gummy bears post workout right ?? Lol
 
TyMan14

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Oo ok. Yea thats sounds about right. Id be doing the same on a cut. From what i remeber he calls for gummy bears post workout right ?? Lol
Yeah but I don't do that. Just iifym with his macro breakdown and a 16 hour fast each day.
 
Jiigzz

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Thats whats up bro. Thats alot of cals for a shred tho no? Or thats just on refeed days?

Yea i put in 45 pounds. I did kris gethins 12 week transformation and added a few weeks to it. No cheat, no alcohol, no fats fruits dairy or sugars for that time. 7 meals a day, 2 cardios sessions a day plus weights. I lost 25 lbs and was shredded for real. Then did dtp, drank a gallon of coconute water a day, ate like crazy, maybe 5600 cals a day. Fats, fruits and dairy reintroduced. Started creatine and beta alanine at that time. My body absorbed all of it like a sponge. I put on serious size fast. Itwas because of the anabolic rebound and then the reintroduction of nutrients and such intense training.
No fats or fruits? Whoever wrote that obviously hates testosterone production and a healthy lifestyle.

Im also doubting this incredibly. Anabolic rebound?

Ive studied nutrition for a long while and never come across a diet which defys basic principles for real. And ive heard them all.

Not combining glucose and fats because of fat storage, not eating glycerol because it makes you fat, avoiding insulin surges, losing fat on a surplus due to a unique combination of food, dropping food then adding it back and making pure gains etc etc but all are based on anecdotal evidence and rarely do they even make sense. And often people claim they are calorie counting as well which people buy into. But time and time again these diets fail when practiced by others because the diet tries to defy basic physiology and mechanics

This is the first time ive heard of an anabolic rebound.

Im not knocking, but I try to stop people buying into BS before they do.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Lolol with that kind of outrageous training program combined with that terribly deficient diet I would imagine going from one extreme end to another your body would "absorb nutrients like a sponge" and your bf % would also go up faster than you can count.
 
TyMan14

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I was thinking the same thing about that post but didnt wanna say it. lol
 
Jiigzz

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I was thinking the same thing about that post but didnt wanna say it. lol
The thing which nutrition is that it is only as complicated as you make it. People exploit weird and wonderful things all the time - diets based on blood work, diets based around food combinations and other things but the body doesnt work like that at all.

There are definitely optimal ways to implement a diet (modifying diets for diabetics, for optimizing lipid profiles, performance etc) but when it comes to the basics (loss and gain) the simplest approach is the most correct and the law of thermogenics holds true in most situations and the bodys systems are tightly regulated.

Generally speaking, rapid muscle gain cannot occur (due to the process and limitations involved) but rapid fat gain can, unless AAS is involved.
 
NoAddedHmones

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The thing which nutrition is that it is only as complicated as you make it. People exploit weird and wonderful things all the time - diets based on blood work, diets based around food combinations and other things but the body doesnt work like that at all.

There are definitely optimal ways to implement a diet (modifying diets for diabetics, for optimizing lipid profiles, performance etc) but when it comes to the basics (loss and gain) the simplest approach is the most correct and the law of thermogenics holds true in most situations and the bodys systems are tightly regulated.

Generally speaking, rapid muscle gain cannot occur (due to the process and limitations involved) but rapid fat gain can, unless AAS is involved.
Very well put.

This is why I always advise people only deviate as mininally as possible from homeostasis in that results in either direction fat loss/ weight gain) are occurring. All these fads such as long term fasting following by super compensation refeeds, PSMF bla bla bla all are not sustainable long term and throws your bodies hormones on a rollecoster ride.
 
EMPIREMIND

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The thing which nutrition is that it is only as complicated as you make it. People exploit weird and wonderful things all the time - diets based on blood work, diets based around food combinations and other things but the body doesnt work like that at all.

There are definitely optimal ways to implement a diet (modifying diets for diabetics, for optimizing lipid profiles, performance etc) but when it comes to the basics (loss and gain) the simplest approach is the most correct and the law of thermogenics holds true in most situations and the bodys systems are tightly regulated.

Generally speaking, rapid muscle gain cannot occur (due to the process and limitations involved) but rapid fat gain can, unless AAS is involved.
Listen i know what it sounds like, but my results in six months were rapid and drastic. I put on easily 10 pounds solid muscle and def put on fat too, 10-15 pounds was probly water and food. But during my transformation I was absolutely ripped in the best shape of my life after 14 weeks on that kris gethin diet and nutrition. Then his dtp plan i gained like crazy, and not on my waist, my shoulders, arms, legs, and chest mostly. Say its bull if you want, i lived it. I used to be 280. I was a heart attack waiting to happen, smoked, drank, all that. That exact plan eliminated all those habits completely. I barely ever smoke now and i dont drink. It is drastic, but thats what i needed. i respect your opinion, but my life experience dictates otherwise. I changed drastically using those diets while the rest of my peers stayed the same. If i look at pictures from a year ago it is siginificant how much broader i am, and solid. I dont do those type of diets constantly, i dont know if ill ever do it again, because with more knowledge, and understanding, i like where im at. But the diets i did produced the results i was looking for in minimal time.
 
EMPIREMIND

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Very well put.

This is why I always advise people only deviate as mininally as possible from homeostasis in that results in either direction fat loss/ weight gain) are occurring. All these fads such as long term fasting following by super compensation refeeds, PSMF bla bla bla all are not sustainable long term and throws your bodies hormones on a rollecoster ride.
What throws your body on a long term roller coaster ride is our american diets, societys norms have people dying super young. Cancer especially is hitting young people more than ever, ive personally seen too many cases. Imo crash diets are the last thing to be worried about. And this is a bodybuilding site. Some of the most classic bb diets are crash diets. Competition diets are absurb and very unhealthy, but this is the sport.
 
NoAddedHmones

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What throws your body on a long term roller coaster ride is our american diets, societys norms have people dying super young. Cancer especially is hitting young people more than ever, ive personally seen too many cases. Imo crash diets are the last thing to be worried about. And this is a bodybuilding site. Some of the most classic bb diets are crash diets. Competition diets are absurb and very unhealthy, but this is the sport.
I think the point i was trying to convey brushed over you.. You are absolutely correct that classic bro diets in particular around competition are very unhealthy. But they don' necessarily need to be. Implementing a correct calorie deficit relative to your current metabolic capacity and slowly reducing cals/increasing cardio will acheive the same outcome as a crash/yoyo diet will and won't burden your health anywhere near as much...
 
EMPIREMIND

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I think the point i was trying to convey brushed over you.. You are absolutely correct that classic bro diets in particular around competition are very unhealthy. But they don' necessarily need to be. Implementing a correct calorie deficit relative to your current metabolic capacity and slowly reducing cals/increasing cardio will acheive the same outcome as a crash/yoyo diet will and won't burden your health anywhere near as much...
I agree with that.
 
Jiigzz

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Listen i know what it sounds like, but my results in six months were rapid and drastic. I put on easily 10 pounds solid muscle and def put on fat too, 10-15 pounds was probly water and food. But during my transformation I was absolutely ripped in the best shape of my life after 14 weeks on that kris gethin diet and nutrition. Then his dtp plan i gained like crazy, and not on my waist, my shoulders, arms, legs, and chest mostly. Say its bull if you want, i lived it. I used to be 280. I was a heart attack waiting to happen, smoked, drank, all that. That exact plan eliminated all those habits completely. I barely ever smoke now and i dont drink. It is drastic, but thats what i needed. i respect your opinion, but my life experience dictates otherwise. I changed drastically using those diets while the rest of my peers stayed the same. If i look at pictures from a year ago it is siginificant how much broader i am, and solid. I dont do those type of diets constantly, i dont know if ill ever do it again, because with more knowledge, and understanding, i like where im at. But the diets i did produced the results i was looking for in minimal time.
Its cool you achieved the results you did, but once you learn more about the bodies limitations and processes regarding these things, you'll see why I disagree that it was completely all muscle.

Ive heard results of people losing 3lbs per day on 6000kcal diets when they didnt combine food types, ive heard reports of people dropping tons of fat and gaining muscle on blood based diets and so on and so forth. Ive investigated them all but there are huge confounders in all their storys.

Often they mistake glycogen replenishment, water retention etc etc as muscle or are not actually counting and so on.

Again, its cool you did so well, im just saying it so people dont think its a good idea considering you dropped fats and likely plummeted your test.

Edit: ergolog has an article on AMs home page pertaining to this
 
EMPIREMIND

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Your correct in regards to alot. I made a drastic change in lifestyle so althought i have been training for a long time, never at that level, so i think alot was newbie gains, when i was 28 lol. Also of the 40lbs, i would say a good ten to fififteen was food and water for sure as you mentioned. But when the smoke settled, i put together a great base in that period of time. I would honestly say 6-10 lbs lbm. I was supplementing exactly what he reccommended, eating diet etc. Kris gethin 4 week dtp. Now i handle my nurtition differently, but all i know is that it worked. I respect your p.o.v. and opinion completely, maybe i am an outlier, as i said i was 280, five years later and at my leanest i was 188, and now im climbing back up, now at 220ish. It could have been some muscle memory since i used to be so big, idk. Anyways, respect fellas. Im out for the night
 
Jiigzz

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Your correct in regards to alot. I made a drastic change in lifestyle so althought i have been training for a long time, never at that level, so i think alot was newbie gains, when i was 28 lol. Also of the 40lbs, i would say a good ten to fififteen was food and water for sure as you mentioned. But when the smoke settled, i put together a great base in that period of time. I would honestly say 6-10 lbs lbm. I was supplementing exactly what he reccommended, eating diet etc. Kris gethin 4 week dtp. Now i handle my nurtition differently, but all i know is that it worked. I respect your p.o.v. and opinion completely, maybe i am an outlier, as i said i was 280, five years later and at my leanest i was 188, and now im climbing back up, now at 220ish. It could have been some muscle memory since i used to be so big, idk. Anyways, respect fellas. Im out for the night
Thats awesome progress man, dont let me take anything from you as that is not my intention at all.
 

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