Milk w/ Post Workout Whey - Yes or No?

  1. Milk w/ Post Workout Whey - Yes or No?


    I have been trying to come to a decision on whether it is best to consume post workout whey with or without milk. I feel like for every study I find saying milk is beneficial in your post workout shake there is one that says the added casein slows down the breakdown of the whey.

    What do you do? Have you found any studies that definitively state which is best?

    I'm know I'm just overthinking this and would be fine doing either, but am curious none the less.


  2. Makes no difference.. but, I mix my whey with milk pre bed

  3. Don't overthink it, take it how u like it. I enjoy with milk, can't stand the taste with water
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  4. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    The Solution's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    Makes no difference.. but, I mix my whey with milk pre bed

    This, or you could just have a whole food meal instead post-workout, dont need whey, its just a "Supplement" To help reach your protein intake you lack from whole foods. If milk fits into your calories for the day then great, but the overall speed is one of the last things you need to worry about possibly from a pre-workout meal still digesting or a bCAA amino product that has your P-ratio still elevated from intra-workout use.

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/
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  5. extra simple carbs post lift! won't hurt at all
    Serious Nutrition Solutions

  6. Thanks for the replies guys!

  7. what do you guys think of mixing this with protein shake? the insulin spike from the sugar would help carry protein to muscles faster? Name:  image-668925774.jpg
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    You dont need an insulin spike and speed is not necessary. Again you have food overlap from a pre-workout meal or aminos present from an intra-workout BCAA product. The insulin spiking is only and has been studied on fasted individuals in a 24+ hour state or those training to be endurnace athletes

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
    http://fitnfly.com/learn-about-food/nutrition-facts

    he postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

    So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

    To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

    Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

    You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.




    More:

    "ou do not need to neccessarily "spike" insulin for creatine to be maximally absorbed, but yes insulin is involved with the trasnsport.

    FYI: The insulin and creatine studies I have seen up to this point have involved taking the glucose 30 minutes after the creatine. This may be because the insulin release from the dextrose doesn't entirely coincident with the pharmacokinetics of the creatine absorption.

    Personally I think more consistent waves of insulin may be more anabolic than "spikes" anyway. This is because smoother waves of insulin more than likely affect ATP production more beneficially than "spikes" probably do. ATP is what rebuilds muscles and you want the most efficiency you can get here. I'm saying this because there is a delicate balance here between oxidative phosphorylation and lipogenesis (stimulated by acetyl COA carboxylase from HCO3-) in the mitochondrial in the presence of insulin. This "balance" I am talking about here is different for everyone though. Some people "shunt" over to lipgenesis so much sooner than other people. This has to do with other "global" processes happening in the body."

    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319


    The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulinlevels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

    So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

    To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204
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  9. Like Solution said it doesn't matter and a whole meal post workout may be better....for someone like myself who uses Humapro pre workout and Compete intra, I don't really even drink post workout shakes anymore because I drive home and eat within 20-30 minutes of my workout

    I'm also not a huge fan of drinking my calories so I don't mix my protean powder with milk, if I can get a quick 20-30 grams of protean at 100 calories then I'm happy

    if your bulking then by all means drink milk with protein in order to get some extra calories though

  10. Don't over think this; if you enjoy it, eat it or drink it.
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  11. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Don't over think this; if you enjoy it, eat it or drink it.
    But i love ice cream
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  12. In just to say how much I enjoy reading nutrition responses from The Solution.

  13. I would totally mix with milk. in practice its creating a blend of protein sources which does have supporting data that shows protein blends are better than single sources.
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  14. I would suggest no milk or any dairy. During a prep I remove all dairy. During "offseason" I keep dairy at a minimal, usually just cheese really, I'm not a big fan of milk, I use almond milk instead.

    For your shakes I would go with water, or unsweetened Almond Milk.

    My person choice for post workout is a shake with water + 50 grams whey isolate + 50 grams karbolyn. About 7 days out from a show I switch to whole foods (no shakes)

  15. Quote Originally Posted by EWolfe08 View Post
    I would suggest no milk or any dairy. During a prep I remove all dairy. During "offseason" I keep dairy at a minimal, usually just cheese really, I'm not a big fan of milk, I use almond milk instead.

    For your shakes I would go with water, or unsweetened Almond Milk.

    My person choice for post workout is a shake with water + 50 grams whey isolate + 50 grams karbolyn. About 7 days out from a show I switch to whole foods (no shakes)
    What is your reasoning to avoid dairy? Are you lactose intolerant or bloat from dairy? People do not process foods the same.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    What is your reasoning to avoid dairy? Are you lactose intolerant or bloat from dairy? People do not process foods the same.
    "Milk is for babies" need I say more?

    lol, no but really, there are a LOT of reasons to avoid dairy, just do a quick google search, or even one on this board and you'll find tons of reliable lists.

    When it comes to contest prep, every little bit matter, the saying "better safe then sorry" would come to play here. Dairy makes a lot of people hold water, even a very mild sensitivity could mean not looking your best. I personally don't know a legit coach or competitor that keeps dairy in there diet when trying to get their absolute leanest.

  17. Milk alone, is a great post work out. The macro ratio is perfect for recovery.
    There might be other factors though as the solution mentuoned.

    Edit....that being said. I dont drink milk. Havent for a few years now
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  18. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWolfe08 View Post
    "
    When it comes to contest prep, every little bit matter,.
    98% of the people on here will never go into contest prep.
    Ask Layne Norton who has about 30+ Pro-cards to his name. Dairy never killed him
    Alberto Nunez
    I think dairy treated him ok

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  19. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    98% of the people on here will never go into contest prep.
    Ask Layne Norton who has about 30+ Pro-cards to his name. Dairy never killed him
    Alberto Nunez
    I think dairy treated him ok


    Sure it might be fine for some people. There are a lot of different theories, reasons and personal preferences. Mine is to eliminate dairy. My responses are my personal suggestions from research and experience.

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    Research? your post above states a quote from 1977
    this is 2014
    Dairy is very heavy in Vitamin D and Calcium and loaded with tons of micronutrients, so why should one avoid Dairy besides you are just against it as an individual

    Need me to post some more who have had success with dairy and came in absolutely shredded and who are pros?
    Tommy Jeffers
    Doug Miller
    Brain Whitacre
    Kurt Weidner
    Paul Rivelia

    .... i could go on and on and on.
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  21. Quotes from Arnold are considered research now...I must go and look up every single quote!

    Like The Solution said, milk and dairy is great for micros. Unless one is lactose intolerant, milk should be avoided for obvious reasons. If one bloats easily from dairy, just limit it, but don't avoid it.
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  22. No Milk for me. I would go with Unsweetened Almond Milk.

  23. Milk every single time.
    Day or Night
    Pre or Post

  24. Personal preference but I don't have any milk or dairy in my diet. What other animal has milk post adolescence age?
  25. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Personal preference but I don't have any milk or dairy in my diet. What other animal has milk post adolescence age?
    Maybe I just enjoy furthering myself from behaving like all the other animals.

    What animal lifts weights?
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  26. Do what you like. I prefer milk in my shakes, especially when I make protean icecream. Otherwise I use water since I go to the gym and than straight to work, I dont want to worry about it getting warm.
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  27. Quote Originally Posted by Driven2lift View Post
    Maybe I just enjoy furthering myself from behaving like all the other animals. What animal lifts weights?
    lol true but like I said it's just personal preference. In sayin that some animals don't need to lift weights I mean have you seen how muscular a horse can be off eating grass? Or a lion or tiger? Those animals are just gifted lol. Good genes. Haha

  28. I use milk because protein in water tastes like...protein in water...

  29. Quote Originally Posted by laneanders View Post
    I use milk because protein in water tastes like...protein in water...
    It all depends on the protein that you use.... And you get used to it lol.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by laneanders View Post
    I use milk because protein in water tastes like...protein in water...
    Cook with your protein to open a whole new world.
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  31. The University of Florida, and probably others, give their football players chocolate milk post workout... if it is good enough for them then it is probably OK for you.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by akazo View Post
    The University of Florida, and probably others, give their football players chocolate milk post workout... if it is good enough for them then it is probably OK for you.
    Nesquik strawberry milk is the GOAT flavored milk. Not the powder stuff though, the pre mixed refrigerated one!
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  33. Quote Originally Posted by akazo View Post
    The University of Florida, and probably others, give their football players chocolate milk post workout... if it is good enough for them then it is probably OK for you.
    yeah if you want to turn out like tebow, aaron hernandez, and riley cooper

  34. Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    yeah if you want to turn out like tebow, aaron hernandez, and riley cooper
    So, if I drink chocolate milk after each training session, I will become a God loving racist redneck murderer? Sweet!
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