BCAA importance.

Christenson26

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How important do you guys think BCAA's are? Are they a "must have" and should they be taken religiously every workout and off days like protein and Creatine? And if my protein powder (like almost every protein powder) says it contains all the primary amino acids should I bother supplementing the amino acids directly? Just wondering what other peoples take on it is.
 
OnionKnight

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Nope. And protein isn't a must have either. Creatine isn't either, but it's worth having every day since its so cheap and you can't really get an effective amount from diet
 
Christenson26

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Haha getting everything from your food and diet is best but I don't have that luxury at college with no kitchen or stove to cook on.
 
Driven2lift

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Depends on your meal frequency and total protein intake
 
OnionKnight

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Haha getting everything from your food and diet is best but I don't have that luxury at college with no kitchen or stove to cook on.
How do you not have a kitchen or stove? Do you live in a bathroom or somethin? Even then, I still don't think they're worth buying. Unless you're a college athlete that trains fasted all the time
 
abformulations

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Depends on food intake.
 
Christenson26

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No man, I live in a dorm room with a bathroom that I share and I eat cafe food everyday. College dorms blow
 
abformulations

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No man, I live in a dorm room with a bathroom that I share and I eat cafe food everyday. College dorms blow
It sure does. Than bcaa and protein will def do you good
 
Christenson26

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Haha yep, so will the protein that contains the amino acids be enough or would it be better to supplement the amino acids by themselves before or during workout?
 
OnionKnight

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So is it tough to keep calories high? If that's the case, get some bulk dextrose (hella cheap) and make your own gainer shakes. That's easy calories right there. Not exactly nutrient dense, but still calories
 
Christenson26

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No keeping calories high isn't a problem. I can eat as much as I want about as often I as I want but most of it is junk. I'm been cleaning up my diet for the past month though and lean out a little
 
Driven2lift

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Haha yep, so will the protein that contains the amino acids be enough or would it be better to supplement the amino acids by themselves before or during workout?
Use BCAA's preworkout and your protein shake after. If it is a long workout session use them during as well
 
MyKH3LL

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Use BCAA's preworkout and your protein shake after. If it is a long workout session use them during as well
I use them intraworkout and shake afterwards. My sessions never really exceed 45 mins. I prefer short and intense, all the reps are slow and controlled but rest is never longer than 60 secs... You think I should hit my Amino IV almost like a pre-workout? I could down that with my GMS, LCLT and ArA that I'm currently supplementing with :)
 
Driven2lift

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I use them intraworkout and shake afterwards. My sessions never really exceed 45 mins. I prefer short and intense, all the reps are slow and controlled but rest is never longer than 60 secs... You think I should hit my Amino IV almost like a pre-workout? I could down that with my GMS, LCLT and ArA that I'm currently supplementing with :)
Cooper and other PES reps have suggested a few times that it is most beneficial taken pre and intra, the common way being 1 scoop pre and one intra.

As you are using ARA I assume you are fasted in which case that schedule would likely be best.

There are many workout-specific benefits included in AminoIV which you can take advantage of this way.

Taking them in your shake post workout is probably a waste TBH. At most I would add some leucine to it to maximize MPS but even then only needed if it is a small shake/amount of protein
 
abformulations

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On my second tub.

1 pre mixed with pre workout
1 intra.

Good stuff right here
 
MyKH3LL

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Cooper and other PES reps have suggested a few times that it is most beneficial taken pre and intra, the common way being 1 scoop pre and one intra.

As you are using ARA I assume you are fasted in which case that schedule would likely be best.

There are many workout-specific benefits included in AminoIV which you can take advantage of this way.

Taking them in your shake post workout is probably a waste TBH. At most I would add some leucine to it to maximize MPS but even then only needed if it is a small shake/amount of protein
Thanks bro.

To be clear, I don't add them to my shake afterwards, I meant I have them intra and my SELECT shake afterwards :)

I will switch it up like you suggest though and one scoop with my GMS and junk beforehand as a preworkout and the second scoop with my water for during training.

I must admit, I don't really train fasted... I tend to eat about 1 - 2 hours beforehand. I never knew ArA was best utilized with fasted training??

Learn something new every day on here :D
 
Driven2lift

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Thanks bro.

To be clear, I don't add them to my shake afterwards, I meant I have them intra and my SELECT shake afterwards :)

I will switch it up like you suggest though and one scoop with my GMS and junk beforehand as a preworkout and the second scoop with my water for during training.

I must admit, I don't really train fasted... I tend to eat about 1 - 2 hours beforehand. I never knew ArA was best utilized with fasted training??

Learn something new every day on here :D
ARA is definitely best fasted, really hindering its effects otherwise.

And in that case, Select protein being what you are using afterwards, that is good. Solid stack and it should treat you well. Enjoying the ARA so far?
 
MyKH3LL

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ARA is definitely best fasted, really hindering its effects otherwise.

And in that case, Select protein being what you are using afterwards, that is good. Solid stack and it should treat you well. Enjoying the ARA so far?
Absolutely man. I was doing a GVT run but about 3 weeks in an old shoulder injury flared up so I thought it best to take some time off and rest and heal. I've just started back into it now (yesterday was my first session back under the bar) but returning to my tried and trusted upper/lower 4 day split routine with major muscle groups at 4 sets and the smaller ones at 3. I've keeping everything in the 8 - 12 rep range at a 4020 tempo. Once I start feeling a bit more solid I will probably return to a heavy 5x5 type strength routine but for now I'm going "lighter" and just concentrating on strict form and speed for all my lifts.

I had some good results just in those 3 weeks though so I'm really looking forward to getting back to a consistent routine over the next month and a bit while I finish off my ArA and do a bit of a recomp ;)

Loving the Select as well, made the most of the insider deal and ordered 6 tubs (2 of each) however I'm on my second type of each flavour so it might be time to start looking at ordering my next lot. I need to give a few of your recipes a crack! Some of them look brilliant.

Snickerdoodle is amazing, probably my favourite! I drop 1/2 cup of oats and 1 TBSP raw honey in with a pinch of nutmeg as my PWO shake (sometimes I throw in a banana too) ...heaven.

I might drop my arvo meal back an hour or so, that way I'll be a little more fasted when I take my ArA before training. Thanks for the input.

> I posted in the Nutrition forum about my current improved diet (CRITIQUE MY DIET thread) which if you got the time, I'd appreciate hearing your feedback on if it needs any work :)
 
The Solution

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How important do you guys think BCAA's are? Are they a "must have" and should they be taken religiously every workout and off days like protein and Creatine? And if my protein powder (like almost every protein powder) says it contains all the primary amino acids should I bother supplementing the amino acids directly? Just wondering what other peoples take on it is.
If you are not training fasted and dosing them before or using them spaced 4-6 hours apart between meals to allow protein levels to reach refractory stages before being spiked again they won't really do too much for you at all (especially if not taken as a bolus) As per Layne Norton's MPS PDF/Powerpoint (Which you can google/read).

Taking them in a fed state and intra-workout with a pre-workout meal shortly before and then slamming a shake or getting a meal shortly after has no real merit behind them and mostly wasting money (alan aragon has a good stance on that) but again its personal preference.
 
Young Gotti

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No supplements are a must have, however I'm a big supporter of bcaa's intraworkout, i've been using them for years now

However I've switched from only Bcaa's to Compete which is more a complete intraworkout product, I still like to mix some bcaa's into Compete
 

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If you are not training fasted and dosing them before or using them spaced 4-6 hours apart between meals to allow protein levels to reach refractory stages before being spiked again they won't really do too much for you at all (especially if not taken as a bolus) As per Layne Norton's MPS PDF/Powerpoint (Which you can google/read). Taking them in a fed state and intra-workout with a pre-workout meal shortly before and then slamming a shake or getting a meal shortly after has no real merit behind them and mostly wasting money (alan aragon has a good stance on that) but again its personal preference.
By training in a fasted state, do you mean not eating the hours leading up to training or being on a completely fasting diet? I've taken BCAA's as part of my post-workout shake, but never as a solo pre or intro supplement. I do plan on taking BCAA's as a pre/ intra beginning this week, and want to make sure I'm getting full absorption and potency. It seems to work best when taken as both(pre and intra), I just want to clear up this fasted state I seem to be confused about. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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By training in a fasted state, do you mean not eating the hours leading up to training or being on a completely fasting diet? I've taken BCAA's as part of my post-workout shake, but never as a solo pre or intro supplement. I do plan on taking BCAA's as a pre/ intra beginning this week, and want to make sure I'm getting full absorption and potency. It seems to work best when taken as both(pre and intra), I just want to clear up this fasted state I seem to be confused about. Thanks in advance for your help.
Talking overnight fast. several hours (depending on meal size) Will still be present in intra-workout/post-workout period therefore there is no need for the BCAA's
but again if you eat, and then dose the BCAA between your meal 4-6 hours apart
IE
Eat at noon
Dose at 2-3
Train
Post-workout Meal 4-6
should be fine

I know Mr Cooper also reccomends for Amino IV if you train fasted upon waking to take 1 scoop pre and 1 intra. i would do the same with any regular BCAA beverage for a fasted training state upon waking.
 
john.patterson

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if you have the money, bcaa's can't hurt. but if they aren't going to make or break your diet and training program. i use them intra workout while cutting, that's about it.
 
pyrobatt

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How important do you guys think BCAA's are? Are they a "must have" and should they be taken religiously every workout and off days like protein and Creatine? And if my protein powder (like almost every protein powder) says it contains all the primary amino acids should I bother supplementing the amino acids directly? Just wondering what other peoples take on it is.
They have their place but I have come to realize they are pretty much a waste of money if you're not on aas.

1g per lb of protien makes sure you get plenty of bcaas.
Taking anything intra workout should be left to people who train for endurance and people using insulin for the bodybuilding purposes.

1 to 3 hours of training won't make you shrivel up. 4 + is endurance in my eyes.

I would much rather not eat extra calories from bcaas and eat more food.*fda doesn't allow amino acids to list calories. *

I also should note that an eaa product would better fit a natural athlete and the average joe.
 

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They have their place but I have come to realize they are pretty much a waste of money if you're not on aas.

Just curious to the advantage of BCAA's while on AAS? Thanks.
 

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They have their place but I have come to realize they are pretty much a waste of money if you're not on aas. 1g per lb of protien makes sure you get plenty of bcaas. Taking anything intra workout should be left to people who train for endurance and people using insulin for the bodybuilding purposes. 1 to 3 hours of training won't make you shrivel up. 4 + is endurance in my eyes. I would much rather not eat extra calories from bcaas and eat more food.*fda doesn't allow amino acids to list calories. * I also should note that an eaa product would better fit a natural athlete and the average joe.
Just curious to the advantage of BCAA's while on AAS? Thanks.
 
john.patterson

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Just curious to the advantage of BCAA's while on AAS? Thanks.
I'm also curious. I know that your body is far more anabolic on AAS, so why would BCAA's be of any benefit?
 
Driven2lift

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I'm also curious. I know that your body is far more anabolic on AAS, so why would BCAA's be of any benefit?
You better utilize aminos while using AAS, but you still need to be getting them in the first place. Using BCAAs just adds more fuel to the furnace
 
john.patterson

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You better utilize aminos while using AAS, but you still need to be getting them in the first place. Using BCAAs just adds more fuel to the furnace
interesting. i never knew that would be of benefit. not that I'll ever use AAS, but its still good to know. thanks man!
 
pyrobatt

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You better utilize aminos while using AAS, but you still need to be getting them in the first place. Using BCAAs just adds more fuel to the furnace
Pre contest is a prime example.

Cutting is a time where it could have its place. Upping protien has shown to be muscle sparing. If you're eating like .5 per lb which is my personal minimum for protien suggestion for a natural...it will probably be beneficial. Carbs are yummy so some like that and they are muscle sparing.

I personally feel it won't hurt you but at the same time you should be getting plenty from your diet. My .02.
 
MyKH3LL

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If you are not training fasted and dosing them before or using them spaced 4-6 hours apart between meals to allow protein levels to reach refractory stages before being spiked again they won't really do too much for you at all (especially if not taken as a bolus) As per Layne Norton's MPS PDF/Powerpoint (Which you can google/read).

Taking them in a fed state and intra-workout with a pre-workout meal shortly before and then slamming a shake or getting a meal shortly after has no real merit behind them and mostly wasting money (alan aragon has a good stance on that) but again its personal preference.
So, with this knowledge, I should stick to having my serving on Amino IV at around 10 am (approx 3 hours after my bulletproof coffee for my Intermittent Fasting protocol) and not bother with them intra or even preworkout - especially if I'm eating within 2 hours of training?
 
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So, with this knowledge, I should stick to having my serving on Amino IV at around 10 am (approx 3 hours after my bulletproof coffee for my Intermittent Fasting protocol) and not bother with them intra or even preworkout - especially if I'm eating within 2 hours of training?
If your training fed
then dose between meals 4-6 hours apart.
 
MyKH3LL

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If your training fed
then dose between meals 4-6 hours apart.
Done. Thanks.

For now, at around 630-700 am I have my black coffee with 50-80 g blended grass-fed butter, 1 TBSP MCT oil and 2 stevia tabs - I often add a sprinkle of cinnamon for taste. Around 10 am I have my two scoops Amino IV in 12 - 16 oz of water.

I will eat my first meal around 1 - 130 pm (I push it out to 2 pm if at all possible) Have another meal around 330 - 400 pm and get home to start preparing to train. I usually start to hit the iron around 600 - 630 pm after taking my X-FACTOR, GMS, LCLT and Beta Alinine when I get home around 530 - 600 pm.

Post workout shake (includes oats, banana, honey etc.) shower and final meal around 800 - 830 pm.

Would it be worth it for me to drop the 330 - 4 pm meal (as X-FACTOR is better taken fasted too yes?) and have another amino around that 4 - 430 pm meal just smash more food in my 1 and 8 pm meals? ...or should I stick with my current routine you think?
 
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Done. Thanks.

For now, at around 630-700 am I have my black coffee with 50-80 g blended grass-fed butter, 1 TBSP MCT oil and 2 stevia tabs - I often add a sprinkle of cinnamon for taste. Around 10 am I have my two scoops Amino IV in 12 - 16 oz of water.

I will eat my first meal around 1 - 130 pm (I push it out to 2 pm if at all possible) Have another meal around 330 - 400 pm and get home to start preparing to train. I usually start to hit the iron around 600 - 630 pm after taking my X-FACTOR, GMS, LCLT and Beta Alinine when I get home around 530 - 600 pm.

Post workout shake (includes oats, banana, honey etc.) shower and final meal around 800 - 830 pm.

Would it be worth it for me to drop the 330 - 4 pm meal (as X-FACTOR is better taken fasted too yes?) and have another amino around that 4 - 430 pm meal just smash more food in my 1 and 8 pm meals? ...or should I stick with my current routine you think?
I would stick to whole foods over aminos, i dont see any need to dose aminos in the fasted state prior to your first meal, there really is no merit to that at all.

Just fast, eat your first meal, eat your 2nd meal, time the BCAA inbetween your 3rd meal, and eat your 3rd meal later aat night.
 
MyKH3LL

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I would stick to whole foods over aminos, i dont see any need to dose aminos in the fasted state prior to your first meal, there really is no merit to that at all.
That was something I started doing after reading through the Intermittent Fasting thread.
 
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That was something I started doing after reading through the Intermittent Fasting thread.
Martin does not recommend dosing BCAA's while fasted unless you trained already and are doing 10g every 2 hours until you break the fast.



Fasted training

Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal.

Sample setup

11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: Training
1 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal of the day).
4 PM: Second meal.
9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

Calories and carbs are tapered down throughout the day in the example above.


Early morning fasted training

Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later. Read this for details regarding this protocol.

6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA.
6-7 AM: Training.
8 AM: 10 g BCAA.
10 AM: 10 g BCAA
12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window.
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.

For the sake of conveniency, I recommend getting BCAA in the form of powder and not tabs. Simply mix 30 g of BCAA powder in a shake and drink one third of it every other hour starting 5-15 minutes pre-workout. Tabs are cheaper, but much more of a hassle (you're going to have to pop a lot of tabs). Check my supplements guide for specific brand recommendations.


One pre-workout meal

This is the most common setup for my younger clients that are still in college or have flexible working hours.

Sample setup

12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Pre-workout meal. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
3-4 PM: Training should happen a few hours after the pre-workout meal.
4-5 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast.


Two pre-workout meals

This is the usual protocol for people with normal working hours.

Sample setup

12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
 
GQNemesis

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Doesn't hurt .. I load up on leucine throughout the day
 
Whacked

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Good read. Thanks man

Martin does not recommend dosing BCAA's while fasted unless you trained already and are doing 10g every 2 hours until you break the fast. Fasted training Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal. Sample setup 11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA 12-1 PM: Training 1 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). 4 PM: Second meal. 9 PM: Last meal before the fast. Calories and carbs are tapered down throughout the day in the example above. Early morning fasted training Here's a sample setup for a client that trains early in the morning and prefers the feeding phase at noon or later. Read this for details regarding this protocol. 6 AM: 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA. 6-7 AM: Training. 8 AM: 10 g BCAA. 10 AM: 10 g BCAA 12-1 PM: The "real" post-workout meal (largest meal of the day). Start of the 8 hour feeding-window. 8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast. For the sake of conveniency, I recommend getting BCAA in the form of powder and not tabs. Simply mix 30 g of BCAA powder in a shake and drink one third of it every other hour starting 5-15 minutes pre-workout. Tabs are cheaper, but much more of a hassle (you're going to have to pop a lot of tabs). Check my supplements guide for specific brand recommendations. One pre-workout meal This is the most common setup for my younger clients that are still in college or have flexible working hours. Sample setup 12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Pre-workout meal. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake. 3-4 PM: Training should happen a few hours after the pre-workout meal. 4-5 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal). 8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast. Two pre-workout meals This is the usual protocol for people with normal working hours. Sample setup 12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake. 4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal. 8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
 
Bodymekanics

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I use BCAA's as a pre OR as an intra based on what I am working that day, which for me dictates length of session, and my current diet. I try to get everything from foods but some days you just don't have the time; that's life. So instead of going without, I adapt and use what I have when I need to.
 
Obernodo

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BCAA supplementation protects muscles during exercise. This has benefits for both strength and endurance athletes. Recent research has shown an improvement in muscle recovery too. 12 grams of BCAAs per day is the dosage. The main recommendation of BCAA supplementation is to consume it before early morning training sessions. However it is your choice to take it or not
 

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