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    John kiefer "carb backloading"


    I have been reading a lot of john kiefers carb back loading plan. It looks really legit. I'm thinking about giving it a try. What's everyone's input on it???

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    I've been following CBL for 4-5 months now and I'm quite satisfied with my results. I'm doing a cross between SA and DB protocol.

    However, I'm quite sure I would have achieved the same gains with a standard BB nutritional protocol based on "clean" carbs and without needing to fast. IMO, the best thing about CBL is the fact you are "allowed" to eat quite large amounts of the usually demonized high-gi foods in the evenings, the part of the day during which I was craving for "unhealthy" foods. Other than that, you're still supposed to keep an eye on your macros, especially during the ULC part of the day (before training) as well as on off-days.

    To be honest, if your main goal is bulking, I'd not suggest CBL, since during the fasting phase you partly interrupt the flow of nutrients which can keep you in a better anabolic state to build muscle mass. During a cut / recomp it can give you quite decent results, though. Just remember not to use CBL as an excuse to eat junk food every day. I'll have one chocolate bar once/twice a week as a little reward, but apart from that I stick to baked potatoes, puffed rice cakes, sugar-free cornflakes and other gluten-free foods during my backloads. Moreover, don't forget to limit your fructose intake as it potentially has the ability to create unlimited amounts of fat (refined sugar, for example, is made of 50% fructose and 50% glucose).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    I have been reading a lot of john kiefers carb back loading plan. It looks really legit. I'm thinking about giving it a try. What's everyone's input on it???
    The only thing your doing different is alloting your carbs later at night compared to throughout the day. So therefore its not really a major difference just macro manipulation and shifting.

    Its very similar to the Biorythm diet which you can read about here.
    Take everything you read with a grain of salt, some prefer to have more carbs throughout the day, but i would still focus on taking care of your carbs around your training for "Optimal" performance, some train better with or without them, so experiment and see how you react.

    http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems...Biorhythm-Diet

    -- By ingesting high-fat meals in the evening, you induce "metabolic inflexibility" – effectively disrupting metabolic rate and increasing fat storage, risk of obesity, elevated insulin levels and a reduction in insulin sensitivity.

    -- By ingesting high-fat meals in the morning and afternoon, you increase metabolic flexibility – setting the metabolism for higher fat oxidation throughout the day. As LPL enzyme (splits up circulating fatty acids and makes them available for storage) is higher in muscle in the AM, fats are more likely to be burned off as energy or stored as lipid droplets within the muscle (IMTG).

    -- By ingesting high-carb meals in the morning, the same “metabolic inflexibility” occurred, and the metabolism is fixed towards glucose oxidation instead of fat oxidation. This also increases fat storage from meals eaten during the day, and higher-fat meals eaten in the evening in particular.
    -- By ingesting high-carb meals in the evening, you get a bump in the natural leptin signal (occurring 3-6hrs after going to sleep), essentially increasing fat burning through the night and the rest of the following day.

    -- Insulin sensitivity is higher in all cells early in the day, including fat cells, but decreases towards the afternoon and evening, thus partitioning carbs ingested at this time more efficiently into muscle vs. fat. This is obviously further improved by training the muscle that day.

    -- Eating carbs will increase the feel-good neurotransmitter serotonin and make you sleepy. What better time to have your carbs than a couple of hours before bedtime so you can fall into a deeper, higher-quality sleep
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    It's pretty awesome. I have managed to get stronger without bulking (not as strong as I would if I were) but while leaning out. Most importantly I'm so much more emotionally satisfied. I am able to stay clean because I know that there is a high carb treat meal waiting for me at the end of the week.

    I naturally prefer to eat carbs at night anyways so the back loading works well. During the day I only have time to swallow my food whole bc my work gives me no down time
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    I wouldnt mind if anyone has a copy of the book they are willing to share them me...
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Yeah I def enjoyed reading the book. The only thing that sucks for me is I don't train on Saturdays. And a good back load would be nice to have on Saturday nights
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I wouldnt mind if anyone has a copy of the book they are willing to share them me...
    I'd be interested in this too if anyone has it. Maybe even throw a few bucks in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    I wouldnt mind if anyone has a copy of the book they are willing to share them me...
    I have it

    Email me homie
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    Quote Originally Posted by booneman77 View Post

    I'd be interested in this too if anyone has it. Maybe even throw a few bucks in.
    Email me. I got it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    Yeah I def enjoyed reading the book. The only thing that sucks for me is I don't train on Saturdays. And a good back load would be nice to have on Saturday nights
    Does not matter what day it is, you would backload everyday and shift your carbs more toward nighttime as i addressed above
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Does not matter what day it is, you would backload everyday and shift your carbs more toward nighttime as i addressed above
    this doesn't apply to the Strength Accumulation protocol. Kiefer fully and clearly expressed that you won't backload on off-days unless you are Density Bulking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXopA View Post
    this doesn't apply to the Strength Accumulation protocol. Kiefer fully and clearly expressed that you won't backload on off-days unless you are Density Bulking.
    You could still backload if your calories are in a deficit or around maintaince, at the end of the day what matters most? Your caloric intake.

    as i posted above (Regarding the Biorhythm Diet) you can see the benefits of carb backloading or intaking the majority towards nighttime and the reasons why. If you backload and still in a deficit you can still lose weight, apply the benefits, and reap what your doing. See how it suits you and adjust.
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    In on this. To follow the conversation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post

    Does not matter what day it is, you would backload everyday and shift your carbs more toward nighttime as i addressed above
    The book says no backload on off days? I def have no problem with it tho just dont wanna gain fat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    The book says no backload on off days? I def have no problem with it tho just dont wanna gain fat
    Please re-read what i wrote above:

    " you can see the benefits of carb backloading or intaking the majority towards nighttime and the reasons why. If you backload and still in a deficit you can still lose weight, apply the benefits, and reap what your doing. See how it suits you and adjust."
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    Awesome I'm pretty excited about it. I have been carb depleting 6 days straight with a 7th day refeed now for a month straight and I just need something diff for awhile
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    Has anyone seen a difference in body comp when CBL compared to eating carbs in the morning or around morning workouts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Has anyone seen a difference in body comp when CBL compared to eating carbs in the morning or around morning workouts?
    At maintenance cals I see a big difference in the amount of carbs Incan consume per day

    As of lately I have been able to hitn450 carbs a day and remain fairly lean. Do about 75g carb intra or post and the rest before bed
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Has anyone seen a difference in body comp when CBL compared to eating carbs in the morning or around morning workouts?
    stayed much leaner this offseason doing so compared to last
    at school so i cannot pull up pictures but could do so when i get home showing you different from last year and this year.

    its all trial and error on what works for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    At maintenance cals I see a big difference in the amount of carbs Incan consume per day

    As of lately I have been able to hitn450 carbs a day and remain fairly lean. Do about 75g carb intra or post and the rest before bed
    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    stayed much leaner this offseason doing so compared to last
    at school so i cannot pull up pictures but could do so when i get home showing you different from last year and this year.

    its all trial and error on what works for you.
    Did you guys start at the low end of the carb reccomendations and go up or vice versa? In my research awhile back when i was really looking into this there was a lot of complaints that the suggested carb amounts were insanely high in his book.
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    I dont really cycle my kcals. i just adjust based off my goal. cutting i eat less, bulking i eat more. I never really change anything besides my carb intake based off goal. Fat and P are pretty consistent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by booneman77 View Post

    Did you guys start at the low end of the carb reccomendations and go up or vice versa? In my research awhile back when i was really looking into this there was a lot of complaints that the suggested carb amounts were insanely high in his book.
    I started at low end at 50g post workout

    Then upped to 75

    Now I just do 75 intra.

    Well may end up doing about 100-150 intra come time to diet for the may 31 show and have 50 grams at night. Haven't decideda
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    At maintenance cals I see a big difference in the amount of carbs Incan consume per day

    As of lately I have been able to hitn450 carbs a day and remain fairly lean. Do about 75g carb intra or post and the rest before bed
    How would one carb back load if they train in the morning or early afternoon?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    stayed much leaner this offseason doing so compared to last
    at school so i cannot pull up pictures but could do so when i get home showing you different from last year and this year.

    its all trial and error on what works for you.
    Would you mind posting pics later or shooting me a PM? I might be interested in giving this a go...
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    Now --- Almost 190:








    Last offseason:

    Around 170:








    i dont see how this is so complicated

    if you eat 300g of carbs but spread them out over all meals

    reduce to first few meals and increase in later meals.

    Very simple.
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    Damn Bob, your quads blew up. You can definitely see you got bigger, but does not look like any of it was fat.

    I know I am probably making this more complicated than it needs to be. I just want to get my stuff straight before I experiment. So lets say I eat 5 meals during the day and train around noon, would my meals look like the following:

    Meal 1: P+F+veggies
    Meal 2 (pre workout): P+F+veggies
    Meal 3 (post workout): P+C
    Meal 4: P+C
    Meal 5: P+C
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    Exactly
    not very hard to set up. just shift your kcals later at night after working out
    even if you trian early eat P+F for first few meals than P+C later in the day
    ust shifting them later in the day is what matters most.
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    Well from what I'm reading kiefer sometimes eats donuts and stuff post workout. I'm very experienced with counting macros but "healthy" macros. If be lost trying to add those types of carbs to my macros, much less my daily cal intake
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    My only issue is. I'm very experienced with counting my macros and cals but that's what "healthy" foods. Kiefer is talking about having doubts and other high glycemic carbs post training. I would be lost trying to add the macros of a donut or something to my carb intake. Much less my daily cal intake
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    My only issue is. I'm very experienced with counting my macros and cals but that's what "healthy" foods. Kiefer is talking about having doubts and other high glycemic carbs post training. I would be lost trying to add the macros of a donut or something to my carb intake. Much less my daily cal intake
    It's guidelines homie

    Easy enough to cook 3 cups rice and add 3 cups sugar to the water to make it high glycemic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    My only issue is. I'm very experienced with counting my macros and cals but that's what "healthy" foods. Kiefer is talking about having doubts and other high glycemic carbs post training. I would be lost trying to add the macros of a donut or something to my carb intake. Much less my daily cal intake
    Then eat your macros in your meals but shift your carbs later in the night
    what i have said every single post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Then eat your macros in your meals but shift your carbs later in the night
    what i have said every single post.
    great pics, well done mate! any idea what your BF % is at the moment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXopA View Post
    great pics, well done mate! any idea what your BF % is at the moment?
    Got A dexa Scan 2 months ago and came back 11%, so probably around 12-13% my heaviest in about 7 years right now.
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    So basically quit counting macros once it's time to backload???
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    THIS part seems OFF to me

    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    http://forum.reactivetrainingsystems...Biorhythm-Diet

    -- By ingesting high-fat meals in the evening, you induce "metabolic inflexibility" – effectively disrupting metabolic rate and increasing fat storage, risk of obesity, elevated insulin levels and a reduction in insulin sensitivity.

    -- By ingesting high-fat meals in the morning and afternoon, you increase metabolic flexibility – setting the metabolism for higher fat oxidation throughout the day. As LPL enzyme (splits up circulating fatty acids and makes them available for storage) is higher in muscle in the AM, fats are more likely to be burned off as energy or stored as lipid droplets within the muscle (IMTG).

    -- By ingesting high-carb meals in the morning, the same “metabolic inflexibility” occurred, and the metabolism is fixed towards glucose oxidation instead of fat oxidation. This also increases fat storage from meals eaten during the day, and higher-fat meals eaten in the evening in particular.
    -- By ingesting high-carb meals in the evening, you get a bump in the natural leptin signal (occurring 3-6hrs after going to sleep), essentially increasing fat burning through the night and the rest of the following day.

    -- Insulin sensitivity is higher in all cells early in the day, including fat cells, but decreases towards the afternoon and evening, thus partitioning carbs ingested at this time more efficiently into muscle vs. fat. This is obviously further improved by training the muscle that day.

    -- Eating carbs will increase the feel-good neurotransmitter serotonin and make you sleepy. What better time to have your carbs than a couple of hours before bedtime so you can fall into a deeper, higher-quality sleep
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Exactly
    not very hard to set up. just shift your kcals later at night after working out
    even if you trian early eat P+F for first few meals than P+C later in the day
    ust shifting them later in the day is what matters most.
    Would the post workout P+C meal be the most carb heavy and then any other meal after that taper down in carbs? Sorry for the stupid questions, I do not have the book. Also, I read somewhere about the 0 days at no more than 30g carbs, is that necessary, Bob?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Would the post workout P+C meal be the most carb heavy and then any other meal after that taper down in carbs? Sorry for the stupid questions, I do not have the book. Also, I read somewhere about the 0 days at no more than 30g carbs, is that necessary, Bob?
    Prob not completely necessary (a lot of people only do 5-7) but the intention is to get a baseline of glycogen in your body so that you know how much to eat without "spilling over".
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Would the post workout P+C meal be the most carb heavy and then any other meal after that taper down in carbs? Sorry for the stupid questions, I do not have the book. Also, I read somewhere about the 0 days at no more than 30g carbs, is that necessary, Bob?
    Does not matter, eat as you wish my last meal is the largest carb meal

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    So basically quit counting macros once it's time to backload???

    I wrote you shift your carbs to later in the night
    so if you eat 300g of carbs throughout the day (as i already wrote this) you would shift them all towards the end of the day. (or the vast majority) very simple.
    Count your kcals but eat your carbs later.
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    Would it be ok to run a fat burner will doin CBL??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rush8780 View Post
    Would it be ok to run a fat burner will doin CBL??
    You can CBL if you cut or bulk (you dont need a burner to get shredded) You can do that on your diet/cardio alone, but you could use one.
    You just vary your intake.

    Your really overthinking this entire thing.

    You eat your kcals daily ---> Shift your carbs more towards your later meals (but still hit your calories)
    Thats it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    THIS part seems OFF to me
    That was the ONLY part? There is lots in that post that seems off
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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