Nutrition and Health Roundtable

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  1. Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
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  2. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Weight loss comes from a caloric deficit. Period
    Why would you negate a macronutrient because it has plenty of benefits?
    Carbs are protein sparing once minimum's are met
    Carbs help raise leptin
    Leptin helps burn extra fat and extra weight when in a deficit which happens from carb-ups/cheat meals etc
    Carbs are also the main form of energy (Glucose) Especially performed during HIIT Cardio, so one on a keto diet doing HIIT Cardio they are tapping what? nothing, they have no glucose, LISS burns and taps fat reserves which would be optimal for someone on keto (hence dave's keto diet with massive cheat meals)

    not a single study shown via weightlifting and fatloss
    one study has to deal with cognitive thinking, but in rats.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Weight loss comes from a caloric deficit. Period
    Why would you negate a macronutrient because it has plenty of benefits?
    Carbs are protein sparing once minimum's are met
    Carbs help raise leptin
    Leptin helps burn extra fat and extra weight when in a deficit which happens from carb-ups/cheat meals etc
    Carbs are also the main form of energy (Glucose) Especially performed during HIIT Cardio, so one on a keto diet doing HIIT Cardio they are tapping what? nothing, they have no glucose, LISS burns and taps fat reserves which would be optimal for someone on keto (hence dave's keto diet with massive cheat meals)

    not a single study shown via weightlifting and fatloss
    The studies were not geared toward a calorie deficit. And calling a calorie a calorie is simply misguided. Ketogenic diets improve CVD biomarkets and lipid profiles; this is shown in LCD and VLCKD.

    Carbs are not the body's primary source of energy; they are only that way because you eat them and eating carbs inhibits lipolysis. Fat provides more energy per gram and is far more sustainable.
    The body, once keto adapted, can use ketones to fuel exercise of any intensity and, the body is sufficiently capable of producing carbohydrates from non-carbohydrate sources.
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  4. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    The studies were not geared toward a calorie deficit. And calling a calorie a calorie is simply misguided. Ketogenic diets improve CVD biomarkets and lipid profiles; this is shown in LCD and VLCKD.

    Carbs are not the body's primary source of energy; they are only that way because you eat them and eating carbs inhibits lipolysis. Fat provides more energy per gram and is far more sustainable.
    The body, once keto adapted, can use ketones to fuel exercise of any intensity and, the body is sufficiently capable of producing carbohydrates from non-carbohydrate sources.
    So your saying a Keto diet is therefore superior for a gaining phase since none of them had to deal with a dieting phase? If so why?
    Again once you reach protein and fat minimums what is going to be more protein sparing? Adding in more protein to the point of 1.5-2g/lb or adding in carbs which will have protein sparing efects? Most of us who do not take forms of drugs/supplements that would cause an increased P-Ratio/Turnover may not benefit from doing so in the long run.

    Sure my Cholesterol levels, and LDL Levels have dropped a ton even on a low fat diet (55-60g) a day from eating more beef and whole eggs, more than a higher fat diet has ever treated me (i use to eat 100 or so) when i would carb cycle, but to me the mental/physical aspects were not worth it
    bloated, lack of energy, worse gym performance etc.

    This is too individualistic. Some cant eat that way because it does not suit their body. Both are great, but many will find (if they can tolerate carbs) It treats them for the better. Many look at Keto and think OMG no carbs ill lose weight quick, they drop carbs, they lose water weight, and then when they stall they are clueless what to do next because they axe their kcal intake so fast the only resort they have is to jack up cardio. Most rarely use Keto for a gaining or mass phase. Its rare, but some people have to use it. I know an individual personally who thrives off protein and fat, but for the majority who do train and workout they are carb based or include various forms of carbs.

    I think keto may have some benefits (especially towards the end of a contest prep diet) Where its needed to get so low to get the last bit of fat off with massive refeeds to help speed up t3, LEPTIN, and hormone levels and burn the last bit of fat, but for the majority i think its an escape they feel they may get results off of.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    So your saying a Keto diet is therefore superior for a gaining phase since none of them had to deal with a dieting phase? If so why?
    Again once you reach protein and fat minimums what is going to be more protein sparing? Adding in more protein to the point of 1.5-2g/lb or adding in carbs which will have protein sparing efects? Most of us who do not take forms of drugs/supplements that would cause an increased P-Ratio/Turnover may not benefit from doing so in the long run.

    Sure my Cholesterol levels, and LDL Levels have dropped a ton even on a low fat diet (55-60g) a day from eating more beef and whole eggs, more than a higher fat diet has ever treated me (i use to eat 100 or so) when i would carb cycle, but to me the mental/physical aspects were not worth it
    bloated, lack of energy, worse gym performance etc.

    This is too individualistic. Some cant eat that way because it does not suit their body. Both are great, but many will find (if they can tolerate carbs) It treats them for the better. Many look at Keto and think OMG no carbs ill lose weight quick, they drop carbs, they lose water weight, and then when they stall they are clueless what to do next because they axe their kcal intake so fast the only resort they have is to jack up cardio. Most rarely use Keto for a gaining or mass phase. Its rare, but some people have to use it. I know an individual personally who thrives off protein and fat, but for the majority who do train and workout they are carb based or include various forms of carbs.

    I think keto may have some benefits (especially towards the end of a contest prep diet) Where its needed to get so low to get the last bit of fat off with massive refeeds to help speed up t3, LEPTIN, and hormone levels and burn the last bit of fat, but for the majority i think its an escape they feel they may get results off of.
    And conversely, many do not like high carb diets. For me personally, I felt rubbish. So subjective measures mean nothing.

    Also, for muscle building, I offer the following: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/9/5175.full

    Also, proteins have the potential to be insulinogenic and thus, reduce protein breakdown PWO.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    And conversely, many do not like high carb diets. For me personally, I felt rubbish. So subjective measures mean nothing.

    Also, for muscle building, I offer the following: http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/9/5175.full

    Also, proteins have the potential to be insulinogenic and thus, reduce protein breakdown PWO.
    For me my diet is best for gaining weight at 30g over body weight for carbs and 30-50g under body weight for cutting if I do add carbs otherwise I need to keep carbs under 60

  7. I gotta agree with Jiigz on this. I believe the saying a calorie is a calorie is simply overly simplistic. The body reacts differently to different inputs, hence supplementation, pre workouts, trans fats being pretty much outlawed etc.

    It's only common sense that cutting out or exacerbating the metabolic pathways triggered from a macronutrient such as carbs would have a profound internal effect beyond just calories in, calories out.

    Now, can you debate explicitly whether the fat burning makes a real-world difference? Sure. But the fact is that not only is there a difference in how your body reacts is not only relevant, but still valid to those wanting to optimize lifestyle for ones goal
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  8. Viewing weight loss as a calories in vs. calories out equation is grossly over simplified and ignores the downstream metabolic consequences some nutrients have plus it also assumes you have absolute control over energy intake and expenditure, which we do not.
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  9. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Viewing weight loss as a calories in vs. calories out equation is grossly over simplified and ignores the downstream metabolic consequences some nutrients have plus it also assumes you have absolute control over energy intake and expenditure, which we do not.
    Correct
    Micronutrients have to be the #1 factor considered REGARDLESS of caloric intake. I think that is the #1 downfall of people with cals in vs cals out. They dont consider vitamins/minerals as their #1 aspect towards reaching their caloric goal

    NOW granted when you cut this is VERY limited and the amount you get comes down to satisfcation with higher density of foods such as veggies, fruits, protein as your bulk of intake because of restriction and overall satiety in aspect.

    People when in a bulking phase will get carried away and use many different things but the factor should be WHOLE FOODS #1

    Minimums have to be met.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Correct
    Micronutrients have to be the #1 factor considered REGARDLESS of caloric intake. I think that is the #1 downfall of people with cals in vs cals out. They dont consider vitamins/minerals as their #1 aspect towards reaching their caloric goal

    NOW granted when you cut this is VERY limited and the amount you get comes down to satisfcation with higher density of foods such as veggies, fruits, protein as your bulk of intake because of restriction and overall satiety in aspect.

    People when in a bulking phase will get carried away and use many different things but the factor should be WHOLE FOODS #1

    Minimums have to be met.
    I do agree that WRT weight loss than there is no special formula; high carb and low carb work just as well as each other as long as protein needs are kept high which is what you were getting at. I'm actually non-keto lower carb (~100g carbs per day) which suits me fine given that I tend to err towards meat products anyway.
    The only thing I can state is that to lose weight implies a calorie deficit and to gain weight implies an calorie excess but judging this on Atwater factors is problematic; i.e. nuts are often touted to be high calorie sources but they actually provide less energy than stated on the packet
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    I do agree that WRT weight loss than there is no special formula; high carb and low carb work just as well as each other as long as protein needs are kept high which is what you were getting at. I'm actually non-keto lower carb (~100g carbs per day) which suits me fine given that I tend to err towards meat products anyway.
    The only thing I can state is that to lose weight implies a calorie deficit and to gain weight implies an calorie excess but judging this on Atwater factors is problematic; i.e. nuts are often touted to be high calorie sources but they actually provide less energy than stated on the packet
    I like the 125-175 range myself. Hell even with 100g that's four bowels of oatmeal I likes my oatmeal too
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  12. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I do agree that WRT weight loss than there is no special formula; high carb and low carb work just as well as each other as long as protein needs are kept high which is what you were getting at.
    The only thing I can state is that to lose weight implies a calorie deficit and to gain weight implies an calorie excess but judging this on Atwater factors is problematic; i.e. nuts are often touted to be high calorie sources but they actually provide less energy than stated on the packet
    EXACTLY. Protein and fat have to be met regardless of goal (Cutting or bulking) but again some people thrive off higher fat and some dont. Some get bogged down, some get less performance, some have less energy, and they feel crappy. Same with some on higher carbs. Again the body is not a textbook, everyone is different in their approach on what they find works best for them.

    The only thing we can do is take what we READ and what we see work with others, apply it, trial and error, and proceed forward on what is OPTIMAL for us.
    Nuts in general i feel are very overrated, especially dieting. The satisfaction of a few nuts is nothing. I would much rather have some PB or avacado, or something that has a bit more volume . especially because omega 3's are very hard to reach when in a deficit and omega 6's/9's are always over abused by most individuals in a bulking phase where as other micronutrients from fat sources are never really met. Some people dont get enough DPH/EPA in general (from their fish oil supp or under dose it)

    But again, everyone likes different sources and what suits them. There is no cookie cutter plan out there ever, its always changing/evoloving on what works for people and its always being tested with new things year in and year out on what it takes for that individual to look and perform their best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    I like the 125-175 range myself. Hell even with 100g that's four bowels of oatmeal I likes my oatmeal too
    Also depends on the individual, their weight, amount of NEAT outside the gym, Amount of cardio they are doing etc and what their caloric intake will be. Some never go below 200g and can get shredded, some have to go down to say 50g to get shredded. No one size fits all approach ya know?

    I like my potatoes much more than oatmeal again everyone is different!
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post

    Also depends on the individual, their weight, amount of NEAT outside the gym, Amount of cardio they are doing etc and what their caloric intake will be. Some never go below 200g and can get shredded, some have to go down to say 50g to get shredded. No one size fits all approach ya know?

    I like my potatoes much more than oatmeal again everyone is different!
    Well yeah its also based upon the individual. I was just making a statement about myself.
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Also depends on the individual, their weight, amount of NEAT outside the gym, Amount of cardio they are doing etc and what their caloric intake will be. Some never go below 200g and can get shredded, some have to go down to say 50g to get shredded. No one size fits all approach ya know?

    I like my potatoes much more than oatmeal again everyone is different!
    Potatoes all day!!!
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  17. Potatoes and jasmine rice for me!!
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Potatoes all day!!!
    lol to Jiigzz on if as he was on the great potato famine
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  19. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Potatoes all day!!!
    Love em! Fill you up (Satiety) and full of potassium which many do not get enough of.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Love em! Fill you up (Satiety) and full of potassium which many do not get enough of.
    Yes! and high in Vit C
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    lol to Jiigzz on if as he was on the great potato famine
    LOL
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  23. Ehem...anyone up for some Paleo diet discussion? I just happened to bump into a former friend of mine who said:

    "I will get shredded! I'm doing CrossFit 5 times a week and a Paleo Diet! My Cleans and Thrusters will get me 6pack abs in no time!"

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  24. Carb cycling with a weekly Skipload FTW.

    More here;
    http://www.musclemag.com/nutrition-s.../#.UjL17-69LYU
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Ehem...anyone up for some Paleo diet discussion? I just happened to bump into a former friend of mine who said:

    "I will get shredded! I'm doing CrossFit 5 times a week and a Paleo Diet! My Cleans and Thrusters will get me 6pack abs in no time!"

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachment****88 632"/>
    If I had a dime every time I heard a person say that... I'd have like 50 dimes.
    Fun fact: I have yet to see anyone say that and produce a 6 pack.


    I don't see any evidence to support paleo. I get its easy to monitor your diet when you cut out certain things, but I don't see why macros need to come from certain places. I think it's ease of adherence is an easy thing to follow that cuts out a lot of bad stuff, but I don't think it's optimal or better than simply tracking macros and making good decisions (ie 200g carbs from a sweet potato vs pancakes)
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