Carbs, before or after?

[alwaysfirst]

What's more beneficial, to have carbs before workingout or after?
My goal is to stay as lean as possible but need to recover also?

Thanks!

 

[The Solution]

What's more beneficial, to have carbs before workingout or after?
My goal is to stay as lean as possible but need to recover also?

Thanks!

The daily caloric intake is what matters most, if you want to stay lean you need to be eating close to maintainance or sligtly below to help keep a leaner physique or shed a few pounds. That is what matters.
If you eat carbs pre/intra/post that is personal preference based off YOUR recovery and your TRAINING which will vary from each individual. How you set up your diet is your choice. You could include pre/post or just post, or just pre etc.. see what works for you. There is no true answer.

 

[Swanson52]

During.

 

[The Solution]

Regarding the importance of postW carbs (outside of the endurance context), here are the "big 3" studies thus far that challenge the idea that postW carbs will do anything beyond a sufficient protein dose for the goal of muscle anabolism (note that the main limitation of these studies is that they are acute rather than chronic/long-term):


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17609259
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21131864
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23351781


More in-depth discussion of the relative importance of postW carbs is here: http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5

 

[The Solution]

Performance would come from pre-workout carbs, you dont get enhanced performance from taking something POST-workout or AFTER your workout to impact the session you just performed.
Think about what your saying.

Hence why Aceto is huge on pre-workout carbs,
If you take carsb pre-workout you would utilize them as fuel
If you dont take any carbs pre-workout are you really going to enhance performance (think fasted training or a P+F Meal)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2206056/


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12432174


And a good article:


http://www.simplyshredded.com/top-10-post-workout-nutrition-myths-dave-barr-2.html




If you find any conflicts, let me know. And keep in mind what I said in the original post of this thread: "outside of the endurance context"


Doing 60 sets of high reps & low rest = endurance work. But even then, unless you're going to hit those same muscle groups again within an insufficient timeframe to re-up glycogen stores (i.e., within the same day), then the objective of focusing on hitting your total carb target for the day (as opposed to immediately postworkout) still stands.


Inhibiting protein breakdown, eh? If you actually read the links in the OP, you'd see this (MPS = muscle protein synthesis, MPB = muscle protein breakdown, CHO = carbohydrate):


"The concurrent ingestion of 50 g of CHO with 25 g of protein did not stimulate mixed MPS or inhibit MPB more than 25 g of protein alone either at rest or after resistance exercise. [...] Our data suggest that insulin is not additive or synergistic to rates of MPS or MPB when CHO is coingested with a dose of protein that maximally stimulates rates of MPS." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23351781


Similar acute anabolic response dosing thresholds have been seen with egg protein & beef. However, this dosing ceiling is higher in older subjects (40-ish g as opposed to 20-25 g).


http://fitnfly.com/learn-about-food/nutrition-facts

Insulin sensitivity will be optimized until optimal glycogen status is re-established, whether it be postworkout or the next day


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/234671-intra-workout-carbohydrates-2.html#post4135330


Good thread for you here on good information for intra-workout carbs too (as a general outsider look)


In the end if it fits your calories/macros for the day if you want to use simple carbs intra/post workout its personal preference, but mostly all research will show you its not necessary for those with pre-existing meals that are overlapping or intra-workout BCAA thats are still showing present aminos in the system given the post-workout period where protein syntehsis is elevated for 24+ hours and food is still digesting. For those cutting it may be a lot harder (Satiety) wise to sacrafice intra-wrokout or postworkout simple carbs and a focus on denser caloric food choices also those with greater micronutrients.


If you hit your calories sure it will work to aid your goal, but it comes down to preference and what you feel is optimal.

 

[alwaysfirst]

Performance would come from pre-workout carbs, you dont get enhanced performance from taking something POST-workout or AFTER your workout to impact the session you just performed.
Think about what your saying.

Hence why Aceto is huge on pre-workout carbs,
If you take carsb pre-workout you would utilize them as fuel
If you dont take any carbs pre-workout are you really going to enhance performance (think fasted training or a P+F Meal)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2206056/


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12432174


And a good article:


http://www.simplyshredded.com/top-10-post-workout-nutrition-myths-dave-barr-2.html




If you find any conflicts, let me know. And keep in mind what I said in the original post of this thread: "outside of the endurance context"


Doing 60 sets of high reps & low rest = endurance work. But even then, unless you're going to hit those same muscle groups again within an insufficient timeframe to re-up glycogen stores (i.e., within the same day), then the objective of focusing on hitting your total carb target for the day (as opposed to immediately postworkout) still stands.


Inhibiting protein breakdown, eh? If you actually read the links in the OP, you'd see this (MPS = muscle protein synthesis, MPB = muscle protein breakdown, CHO = carbohydrate):


"The concurrent ingestion of 50 g of CHO with 25 g of protein did not stimulate mixed MPS or inhibit MPB more than 25 g of protein alone either at rest or after resistance exercise. [...] Our data suggest that insulin is not additive or synergistic to rates of MPS or MPB when CHO is coingested with a dose of protein that maximally stimulates rates of MPS." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23351781


Similar acute anabolic response dosing thresholds have been seen with egg protein & beef. However, this dosing ceiling is higher in older subjects (40-ish g as opposed to 20-25 g).


http://fitnfly.com/learn-about-food/nutrition-facts

Insulin sensitivity will be optimized until optimal glycogen status is re-established, whether it be postworkout or the next day


http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/234671-intra-workout-carbohydrates-2.html#post4135330


Good thread for you here on good information for intra-workout carbs too (as a general outsider look)


In the end if it fits your calories/macros for the day if you want to use simple carbs intra/post workout its personal preference, but mostly all research will show you its not necessary for those with pre-existing meals that are overlapping or intra-workout BCAA thats are still showing present aminos in the system given the post-workout period where protein syntehsis is elevated for 24+ hours and food is still digesting. For those cutting it may be a lot harder (Satiety) wise to sacrafice intra-wrokout or postworkout simple carbs and a focus on denser caloric food choices also those with greater micronutrients.


If you hit your calories sure it will work to aid your goal, but it comes down to preference and what you feel is optimal.

Thank you, very good read!