What's you preferred protocol for mass gain

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    Calorie Surplus vs Carb Cycling


    This is a comparison between a controlled surplus of calories (with clean foods), and a Carb Cycling protocol..I've done both and haven't really noticed much of a difference between the 2. If anything I put on weight a little faster w/ the controlled surplus of calories and my recovery between workouts was slightly better.... I'm just curious as to what everyone else's experiences have been with these 2 protocols. Everyone's different and everyone responds differently.

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    controlled surplus for me
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    I like to do a carb cycle. The reason for this is because that is what I was taught by my coach. I started as a fat guy and now I am not such a fat guy. And we did carb cycling to both cut me down and gain some size.

    Though when I start this I set my low carb day to be around my medium carb day during a cutting cycle. Another thing that I was thinking about recently since next week will more than likely be my last show this year, I might just add a protein powder and add a higher carb source to every day like iForce Protean and Vitargo just to see if a constant surplus of calories would work best for me.
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    I do the same thing bulking or cutting; carb cycle. The only thing that is different is the amount of calories and cardio I do. I still d cardio while putting on mass, just a little less. Cardio is important for overall health and conditioning. Trying to put on mass is not an excuse to get fat and not being able to walk up a few flights of stairs without getting winded.
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    Stop all cardio for "bulking phase" and up calories by eating more fat and carbs . I also like to add in a few more cheat meals here and there.
    I keep the calories clean during the week, healthy fat from nut butters and coconut oil. My carbs I keep pretty clean too...I eat a lot of oats and Ezekiel bread.
    The cheat meals are consumed based on how I'm feeling, if I have a crazy workout then I will have a cheat meal if I feel worn down
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcc23 View Post
    This is a comparison between a controlled surplus of calories (with clean foods), and a Carb Cycling protocol..I've done both and haven't really noticed much of a difference between the 2. If anything I put on weight a little faster w/ the controlled surplus of calories and my recovery between workouts was slightly better.... I'm just curious as to what everyone else's experiences have been with these 2 protocols. Everyone's different and everyone responds differently.
    I rather do a controlled surplus. I've put on so much size doing this but it wasn't a clean bulk though. I drank my Isotean shake in between the meals I had throughout the day. I've ate fast food like crazy and I went from 180 when I moved back to NJ from FL and bulked up to 220. (Oct-July) Now I'm cutting and I'm eating clean and now it's just hard to consume any food but it is all a lesson learned. In all I say a calorie surplus did it for me but everyone is different.
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    Controlled surplus. Much more flexible and practical to me.
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    I like to eat a surplus of 500 calories per day and make sure in getting enough protein in also. I always follow my macros to the T. That is really important to follow. I always make sure I avoid sat. Fats and trans fats as much as possible. That's really important also.
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    Why would you avoid saturated fat? We need that!
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    Staying away from saturated fats? Would not advise that unless on gear and even then, wouldn't advise it really. I would CONTROL the intake of saturated fats, but I wouldn't be scared of them. Brb, staying away from coconut oil and egg yolks despite the benefits.
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    Yup I have this conversation with people all the time, and I'm surprised how 'saturated fat' has been so demonised even amongst people who should know better, especially with the wealth of information out there showing that your body needs and benefits from it. Trans and hydrogenated, stay well clear of those, but not saturated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    Yup I have this conversation with people all the time, and I'm surprised how 'saturated fat' has been so demonised even amongst people who should know better, especially with the wealth of information out there showing that your body needs and benefits from it. Trans and hydrogenated, stay well clear of those, but not saturated.
    Agree. I especially love those people who are cutting and stay far away from saturated fats. They don't comprehend that fats don't make one fat and one that is trying to lose weight NEEDS saturated fats even more to help their hormones which can be affected during a cut.
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    I had to bite my tongue the other day when I heard two girls in the supermarket, upon looking at the avocados, saying they wouldn't eat them because they were too fatty... a quick glance in their shopping basket revealed a load of pastries, biscuits and low fat yogurts. A lost cause methinks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    I had to bite my tongue the other day when I heard two girls in the supermarket, upon looking at the avocados, saying they wouldn't eat them because they were too fatty... a quick glance in their shopping basket revealed a load of pastries, biscuits and low fat yogurts. A lost cause methinks.
    But they probably eat guacamole lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    I had to bite my tongue the other day when I heard two girls in the supermarket, upon looking at the avocados, saying they wouldn't eat them because they were too fatty... a quick glance in their shopping basket revealed a load of pastries, biscuits and low fat yogurts. A lost cause methinks.
    I wouldve gone up to her basket and picked everything out and said "THIS, is what's making you fat"
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    I was tempted, but no doubt I'd have got a slap ha!
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    bump
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    I think it'd be good to include carb back loading into this discussion. I've never tried it but I know its a common technique for gaining mass
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    To just gain mass simply eat more. However, I assume you're concerned with gaining lean mass with very little fat (i.e. "lean bulk"). For most of us that is a lot tougher, assuming no anabolics.

    Here's what I would recommend:

    1) You need to really know what you're eating. The only way to do this is to weight, measure, and record everything you put in your mouth. Record calories, carbs, protein, and fat.
    2) For the first couple of days don't change too much with your diet. The idea is to get a baseline of your current totals.
    3) Next add 750 kcal. If your protein is less the 1.25x body weight then add most of the calories as protein. Otherwise just spread them out in whatever way you want.
    4) On "off" days cut 125gm of carbs from your diet.
    5) Train 4 or 5 days on a well designed program and do one HIIT session per week.
    6) If you gain less than 0.5lb per week, add another 250 kcal per day. If you gain more than 1.0lb, cut 250 kcal per day.

    This is a slow and steady process. You will not see amazing results day-to-day, but you will slowly gain predominately lean mass over time. If you've been training for more than a couple of years and eating half way decent, you've likely achieved all of your "newbie" gains.

    Unfortunately, the reality is, unless you're genetically gifted or using anabolics, you can only expect 5 to 10lb per year of truly lean mass. Most guys end up gaining much more fat than necessary on a "bulk" and consequently need to diet down afterwards losing some of the lean mass gained during the process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnston View Post
    I had to bite my tongue the other day when I heard two girls in the supermarket, upon looking at the avocados, saying they wouldn't eat them because they were too fatty... a quick glance in their shopping basket revealed a load of pastries, biscuits and low fat yogurts. A lost cause methinks.
    I had a similar experience today at subway the chick in front of me told her girl friend "I'm going to get the baked chips because I'm trying to cut back on sodium to drop water weight" when she got to the condiments what does she ask extra of? Pickles! I laughed my azz off. Ithis chick had a lot more to lose than water weight
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    bump
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    ugh bump
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcc23 View Post
    ugh bump
    I don't understand what are u looking for?
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    Just lookin to hear what everyone else has been most successful with.
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    I just calculate my needed macronutrients and eat at a surplus or deficit dependent upon my goals at that time if I need to increase calories I'll just take an extra scoop of Protean.

    I keep my calories fairly close though whether bulking or cutting.
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    Controlled surplus....I'm not a fan of carb cycling, even when cutting really...I just feel it over complicates everything, roughly same results either way. I'm also a laborer so I need those precious carbs when working. Mainly recomp all year but regardless bulking/cutting the cals I eat are based on the goal and lifting days = more cals, off days = less cals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntM1564 View Post
    Staying away from saturated fats? Would not advise that unless on gear and even then, wouldn't advise it really. I would CONTROL the intake of saturated fats, but I wouldn't be scared of them. Brb, staying away from coconut oil and egg yolks despite the benefits.
    Im sure he is talking about fried chicken and fried ice cream, and oh yeah fried butter on a stick. That type of fat has no place in humanity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaniard View Post
    Quit complicating ****
    You should see his DL thread lol.
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