MUSCLE MYTH: You can only absorb ~25g of Protein at a time

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    MUSCLE MYTH: You can only absorb ~25g of Protein at a time


    Truth: Your body will slowly digest and absorb all protein you eat, even if you eat 125 grams in a sitting," says Alan Aragon, M.S., the author of Girth Control: The Science of Fat Loss & Muscle Gain. He recommends consuming 1 gram of protein a day per pound of your target body weight.

    4 Muscle Myths Debunked | ThePostGame


    Good, can go back to eating a lot and drinking protein with it.

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    Good to know . Thanks
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    Lol cool info. I always argued this with my dad, now I might win the next protein argument
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    While I'm inclined to agree, I'd like to see them offer up peer reviewed studies vs. just quoting AA.
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    lol idk if anyone remembers my herbalife thread. but i snapped on the herbalife bich last week cuz she whopped out that myth, but then turned around and tried to sell an herbalife protein tub telling the poor girl to take 2 scoops at once

    i relly hate humans some times
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    MUSCLE MYTH: You can only absorb ~25g of Protein at a time


    Here's a study from '09 that shows anything above 30g provides no increase in MPS. This would suggest that more frequent consumption of 30g > less frequent consumption of large quantities.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1026125543.htm

    But wait! Layne Norton suggests here that large scale consumption of protein at once provides a more positive nitrogen balance, among other things. He also addresses the SOURCE of protein as it relates to leucine consumption.

    http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-ph...and-how-often/

    Additionally, I think the statement by AA is misleading. Of course we'll DIGEST the protein we eat (10g or 100g), but how much if that is being used to stimulate new muscle growth, to provide energy, stored as fat, or simply excreted? I think it's a factual statement, but the implication that all the protein we eat in excess will make us grow is a false premise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Here's a study from '09 that shows anything above 30g provides no increase in MPS. This would suggest that more frequent consumption of 30g > less frequent consumption of large quantities.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1026125543.htm

    But wait! Layne Norton suggests here that large scale consumption of protein at once provides a more positive nitrogen balance, among other things. He also addresses the SOURCE of protein as it relates to leucine consumption.

    http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-ph...and-how-often/

    Additionally, I think the statement by AA is misleading. Of course we'll DIGEST the protein we eat (10g or 100g), but how much if that is being used to stimulate new muscle growth, to provide energy, stored as fat, or simply excreted? I think it's a factual statement, but the implication that all the protein we eat in excess will make us grow is a false premise.
    this is the good info.....if i'm not mistaken and i'm probably not typing it right, but layne says you'll absorb as much protein as you give your body but after a certain amount the protein synthesis doesn't really increase at all, as you said depending largly on leucine content in the protein your consuming would depend on how many gram's you would need to hit max protein synthesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young Gotti View Post
    this is the good info.....if i'm not mistaken and i'm probably not typing it right, but layne says you'll absorb as much protein as you give your body but after a certain amount the protein synthesis doesn't really increase at all, as you said depending largly on leucine content in the protein your consuming would depend on how many gram's you would need to hit max protein synthesis
    Correct. You'll ABSORB it all, but there is a MPS ceiling. Additionally, as little as 12-15g can stimulate MPS, so even a small amount of protein can create an anabolic response. Megadosing is not necessary, nor is it optimal.

    I think the devil is in the details (as usual); 30g whey will get you to the upper limit of MPS because of leucine content, where it takes ~50g chicken to achieve the same.
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    Ive always enjoyed his literature, ive always consumed .75-1g of pro per lean mass, interesting on the target body weight idea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Correct. You'll ABSORB it all, but there is a MPS ceiling. Additionally, as little as 12-15g can stimulate MPS, so even a small amount of protein can create an anabolic response. Megadosing is not necessary, nor is it optimal.

    I think the devil is in the details (as usual); 30g whey will get you to the upper limit of MPS because of leucine content, where it takes ~50g chicken to achieve the same.
    Just curious but what does that imply about supplementing leucine? The whole MPS thing has confused me (and others apparently) for sometime now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtinsideout View Post
    Just curious but what does that imply about supplementing leucine? The whole MPS thing has confused me (and others apparently) for sometime now.
    Let me dig; I have an article somewhere that's pure gold on leucine and BCAA/EAA supplementation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    While I'm inclined to agree, I'd like to see them offer up peer reviewed studies vs. just quoting AA.
    Absolutely:

    http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top...-debunked.html

    5. Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.


    Truth

    Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horse****. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

    The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

    Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

    Origin

    I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

    Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

    Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.


    One of my clients, showing symptoms of profound catabolism by impaired protein absorption and daily 16 hour periods of fasting.

    Further reading:

    "Is There a Limit to how Much Protein the Body can Use in a Single Meal?" by Alan Aragon.

    What Are Good Sources of Protein? – Speed of Digestion Part 1
    What Are Good Sources of Protein? – Speed of Digestion Part 2

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...stion-pt1.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...stion-pt2.html

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9405716

    http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Meal%20Frequency
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    MUSCLE MYTH: You can only absorb ~25g of Protein at a time


    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Absolutely:

    http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top...-debunked.html

    5. Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.


    Truth

    Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horse****. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

    The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

    Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.

    Origin

    I think this "30 grams of protein"-nonsense started to circulate after a classic study from 1997 by Boirie and colleagues. "Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion" was the first study to quantify the absorption rate of whey and casein protein and gave birth to the concept of fast and slow protein. After that, whey protein came to be known for it's ability to rapidly elevate amino acids in the blood stream and casein for it's ability to create a sustained release of amino acids. Whey was anabolic and casein anti-catabolic.

    Given that 30 grams of whey protein was absorbed within 3-4 hours, I guess some people believed that meant 30 grams of protein can only be used in one sitting. Or that you had to eat every 3-4 hours to stay "anabolic." Unfortunately, people missed a few facts that made these findings irrelevant to real-world scenarios. First of all, this study looked at the absorption rate of whey protein in the fasted state. On it's own, and with no meals eaten beforehand, 30 grams of whey protein is absorbed within a mere 3-4 hours. With meals eaten earlier in the day, or if you'd consume a whey shake after a meal, absorption would be much slower.

    Second of all, whey protein is the fastest protein of all and digests at 10 g/hour. Casein is much slower; in Boirie's study, the casein protein was still being absorbed when they stopped the experiment 7 hours later. Most whole food proteins are absorbed at a rate of 3-6 grams an hour. Add other macronutrients to that and they'll take longer.


    One of my clients, showing symptoms of profound catabolism by impaired protein absorption and daily 16 hour periods of fasting.

    Further reading:

    "Is There a Limit to how Much Protein the Body can Use in a Single Meal?" by Alan Aragon.

    What Are Good Sources of Protein? – Speed of Digestion Part 1
    What Are Good Sources of Protein? – Speed of Digestion Part 2

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...stion-pt1.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...stion-pt2.html

    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9405716

    http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Meal%20Frequency
    The issue of digestion was already addressed. It's not a question (to me) of digestion, because we'll digest it all. It's a question of upper limit MPS, fuel for energy, and excess.

    Again, AA is right that we'll digest it all, but what's the OPTIMAL AMOUNT to provide anabolic response, positive nitrogen balance, and maximal MPS?

    Not bad info provided, but it certainly doesn't address the questions on the periphery re: usage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    The issue of digestion was already addressed. It's not a question (to me) of digestion, because we'll digest it all. It's a question of upper limit MPS, fuel for energy, and excess.

    Again, AA is right that we'll digest it all, but what's the OPTIMAL AMOUNT to provide anabolic response, positive nitrogen balance, and maximal MPS?

    Not bad info provided, but it certainly doesn't address the questions on the periphery re: usage.
    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

    Read his Protein per meal that i linked.
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    LOL I'm pretty sure you only read my first post in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    LOL I'm pretty sure you only read my first post in this thread.
    Im waiting to see those peer reviewed studies on 25g at a time.. and you must have 6 meals a day

    There were a few on Leangains showing that you dont need 30g per meal that he quoted right off his top 10 fasting myths debunked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Im waiting to see those peer reviewed studies on 25g at a time.. and you must have 6 meals a day

    There were a few on Leangains showing that you dont need 30g per meal that he quoted right off his top 10 fasting myths debunked.
    Who in this thread said anything about peer reviewed studies that you just referenced?

    You're not reading well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Here's a study from '09 that shows anything above 30g provides no increase in MPS. This would suggest that more frequent consumption of 30g > less frequent consumption of large quantities.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1026125543.htm

    But wait! Layne Norton suggests here that large scale consumption of protein at once provides a more positive nitrogen balance, among other things. He also addresses the SOURCE of protein as it relates to leucine consumption.

    http://spotmebro.com/layne-norton-ph...and-how-often/

    Additionally, I think the statement by AA is misleading. Of course we'll DIGEST the protein we eat (10g or 100g), but how much if that is being used to stimulate new muscle growth, to provide energy, stored as fat, or simply excreted? I think it's a factual statement, but the implication that all the protein we eat in excess will make us grow is a false premise.
    You are confusing activation of mTOR/ MPS with the amount fo protein needed to fuel other activities. Proteins provide a far greater use than just that of activating mTOR (stimulating protein synthesis); given the amount of functions proteins + aminos play in the body, it is misguided to say that anything beyond ~25g will be excreted. Put simply, the body has sufficient capability to sotre aminos given the way the body has adpated to sporatic intakes over the centuries.

    Some studies also say that MPS only accounts for 25% of whole-body synthesis and chnages in MPS might be negated by a reciprocal chnage in the synthesis of another protein such as in the GI tract.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    You are confusing activation of mTOR/ MPS with the amount fo protein needed to fuel other activities. Proteins provide a far greater use than just that of activating mTOR (stimulating protein synthesis); given the amount of functions proteins + aminos play in the body, it is misguided to say that anything beyond ~25g will be excreted. Put simply, the body has sufficient capability to sotre aminos given the way the body has adpated to sporatic intakes over the centuries.

    Some studies also say that MPS only accounts for 25% of whole-body synthesis and chnages in MPS might be negated by a reciprocal chnage in the synthesis of another protein such as in the GI tract.
    I'm not confusing them at all. I'm stating that protein digestion isn't the issue we should be looking at, rather utilization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    I'm not confusing them at all. I'm stating that protein digestion isn't the issue we should be looking at, rather utilization.
    Oh yeah, ok I see where you are going. Typically anything above 1.6-1.7-1.8g/kg/BW (rather than a set amount per meal) will be used for other reasons/ excreted etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Oh yeah, ok I see where you are going. Typically anything above 1.6-1.7-1.8g/kg/BW (rather than a set amount per meal) will be used for other reasons/ excreted etc.
    Is this 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg BW true while on cycle as well as off?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    Is this 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg BW true while on cycle as well as off?
    Doubt it, but you won't find any studies on supraphysiological testosterone levels so it's mostly just guesswork.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    Is this 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg BW true while on cycle as well as off?
    I can tell you from my own trial and error that this is not true. I can only speak for myself but on cycle I used 50-70% more protein. Sometimes I hit uppwards of 75g per meal without any issues. However, I feel that high protein intake into the 400g+ range daily for a long period of time like years is unhealthy even with exercise. I dont think we as humans are built to consistently put on muscle mass throughout the year. A break from time to time is good to recharge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpoengineer View Post
    Is this 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg BW true while on cycle as well as off?
    Around a gram per lb of bodyweight is a good amount to try to hit. Technically it is around 0.8-0.9 but it's easier to just say 1g.
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    ppl still believe this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cumminslifter View Post
    ppl still believe this?
    Looks that way
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