3 meals or multiple meals?

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    3 meals or multiple meals?


    Hey guys I was wondering if you think it makes a big difference eating 3 meals while reaching your macros or eating multiple meals to reach them?

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    I would rather just eat 3 or 4 meals.
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    Right? I feel like the whole "6-7" meals thing is a lot of hyped up mess.
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    the more meals per day is mainly, I feel to get people to eat enough. And primarily enough protein. My wife looks at the amount of protein I eat and can't fanthom eating all that in one sitting. So the meals spread thoughout the day thing helps them cope with eating like 150-200g protein a day from eating like 10gs.
    With that said, Layne Norton has stated that research shows that you can't "Make up" for lost protein synthesis time. i.e. you probably won't make the BEST gains if you ate all your protein in one meal and just starved the rest of the day.
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    Well if layne norton says it then it must be somewhat true lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox129 View Post
    Well if layne norton says it then it must be somewhat true lol
    I think he suggests 3-4 meals, with BCAAs in between.
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    How many grams of BCAA'S?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    the more meals per day is mainly, I feel to get people to eat enough. And primarily enough protein. My wife looks at the amount of protein I eat and can't fanthom eating all that in one sitting. So the meals spread thoughout the day thing helps them cope with eating like 150-200g protein a day from eating like 10gs.
    With that said, Layne Norton has stated that research shows that you can't "Make up" for lost protein synthesis time. i.e. you probably won't make the BEST gains if you ate all your protein in one meal and just starved the rest of the day.
    That is true, it can be harder to get in all the protein in fewer meals. Today for my 1st meal, at 12pm since I skip breakfast, I had a little over a pound of ground beef(90/10) and bratwurst with brussel sprouts. So in that meal I had about 110 grams of protein. Pretty sure most people couldnt handle that on a daily basis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox129 View Post
    How many grams of BCAA'S?
    I believe 2.5g of leu cine was enough to initiate protein synthesis.
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    Awesome dude ill take that advice!
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    I read that eating small meals every 2-3 hours allows your body to increase its metabolism
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    Whatever works best for you. Just stay consistent with it.
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    Yeah I feel it's just easier to eat 3-4 times a day healthy
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    Quote Originally Posted by VS91588 View Post
    I read that eating small meals every 2-3 hours allows your body to increase its metabolism
    It can keep insulin levels raise all day. Which some consider a good thing while others dont.
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    Why wouldn't that be considered a benefit?
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    Doesnt matter with meal frequency. Just reach your kcaloric value, whether its maintence, deficite or a surplus. The timing doesnt matter.
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    Re: 3 meals or multiple meals?


    At the end of the day it doesn't really matter as long as you hit your targeted calorie and macro intake
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsox129
    Why wouldn't that be considered a benefit?
    Insulin causes cell growth. It doesn't care if those cells are fat or muscle.
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    To be technical as you approach a higher body fat more frequent meals are bad.

    Less meals are better due to Leptin resistance found on the pancreas

    Essentially Leptin binding to receptors on the pancreas stops the secretion of insulin. When there's a resistance it causes huperinsulinemia with subsequent low blood glucose and the bodies failed ability to increase blood sugar due to the livers inability to regulate itself
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    Quote Originally Posted by VS91588 View Post
    I read that eating small meals every 2-3 hours allows your body to increase its metabolism
    Meal frequency has no direct correlation to metabolism. See "bulking" sub-forum and "meals" thread for a debate that is on this exact topic.
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    I recently read in the latest issue of Muscle and Fitness, that although 3-4 regular meals with pre-post workout shakes or snacks to total 5-6 meals, if muscle gain is your goal, consuming no less than 20g of protein at least every 1.5-2hrs would elicit the best results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    I think he suggests 3-4 meals, with BCAAs in between.
    Yeah, the key is protein synthesis and the more time you are fueling the process in a given day the better. Be it 6-7 meals or 3 large meals and a couple protein snacks or supplements, you are only giving yourself an advantage by staying fed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Yeah, the key is protein synthesis and the more time you are fueling the process in a given day the better. Be it 6-7 meals or 3 large meals and a couple protein snacks or supplements, you are only giving yourself an advantage by staying fed.
    Yet you still have no studies to prove this is correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Yet you still have no studies to prove this is correct.
    In the last thread, the discussion was regarding meal frequency and metabolic rate. I did post a study clearly demonstrating frequent meals having a greater effect on increasing the metabolism over infrequent meals. Maybe you didn't see it, I don't know. In that thread, protein sysnthesis was mentioned and ignored on both sides as a different topic altogether, and it would seem everyone agreed taking advantage is important. Intermittent Fasting vs. traditional frequent meals was the topic (though we were discussing metabolsim there) and even IF diets utilize BCAA's during the "fasting" phase to allow for protein synthesis, which is what we are discussing here.

    I can not post links yet, I don't have 150 posts but if you are truly interested, google "Optimal Protein Intake and Meal Frequency to Support Maximal Protein Synthesis and Muscle Mass" By Layne Norton.

    He will discuss frequent meals to keep protein synthesis going plus amino supplements in between for additional spikes.

    If you are going to choose to ignore this study too, one of many, I can't help you and I'm not interested in a baseless internet argument where I do provide requested information only to have it ignored. My hope in posting is that some of my knowledge that I've applied successfully, seen many others apply successfully and that does have research to back it will be absorbed by curious, learning lifters. I am not here to argue with people dogmatically defending a single dietary protocol, one of many, that has been shown to work empirically and in the lab. I have and still acknowledge that IF diets do work, but I'm not so ignorant to believe they are the only diets that work or even the best, and yes, I will continue posting about strategies that I use.

    If you choose to discount or ignore this study, that is your prerogative but you are only limiting yourself. I won't be posting all of the internet available research on common topics ad infinitum. Both studies, on both threads, are on point. Take from them what you will. If you're smart, you'll do your own researching and continue learning and growing though, add to your tool belt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    In the last thread, the discussion was regarding meal frequency and metabolic rate. I did post a study clearly demonstrating frequent meals having a greater effect on increasing the metabolism over infrequent meals. Maybe you didn't see it, I don't know. In that thread, protein sysnthesis was mentioned and ignored on both sides as a different topic altogether, and it would seem everyone agreed taking advantage is important. Intermittent Fasting vs. traditional frequent meals was the topic (though we were discussing metabolsim there) and even IF diets utilize BCAA's during the "fasting" phase to allow for protein synthesis, which is what we are discussing here.

    I can not post links yet, I don't have 150 posts but if you are truly interested, google "Optimal Protein Intake and Meal Frequency to Support Maximal Protein Synthesis and Muscle Mass" By Layne Norton.

    He will discuss frequent meals to keep protein synthesis going plus amino supplements in between for additional spikes.

    If you are going to choose to ignore this study too, one of many, I can't help you and I'm not interested in a baseless internet argument where I do provide requested information only to have it ignored. My hope in posting is that some of my knowledge that I've applied successfully, seen many others apply successfully and that does have research to back it will be absorbed by curious, learning lifters. I am not here to argue with people dogmatically defending a single dietary protocol, one of many, that has been shown to work empirically and in the lab. I have and still acknowledge that IF diets do work, but I'm not so ignorant to believe they are the only diets that work or even the best, and yes, I will continue posting about strategies that I use.

    If you choose to discount or ignore this study, that is your prerogative but you are only limiting yourself. I won't be posting all of the internet available research on common topics ad infinitum. Both studies, on both threads are on point. Take from them what you will. If you're smart, you'll do your own researching and continue learning and growing though, add to your tool belt.
    http://mindandmuscle.pbworks.com/f/I...0806_Layne.pdf

    Just to point out, this is by no means a study made with a control group and a test group, these are theories posted by someone in the field, much like what anyone can do and have it published on -insert your random blog or magazine here-. There is a difference between a "study" and a powerpoint presentation, study is backed with scientific data, an article can be written by anyone; hell, I could probably find articles to support whatever I wanted, if you want actual, verifiable information, http:.//scholar.google.com is your friend.

    And there haven't been much correlating the two or showing how it will actually increase, in fact, there have been actual studies in regards to carb back-loading as well as keeping as much nutrients to be consumed after your meal rather than throughout the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post

    Just to point out, this is by no means a study made with a control group and a test group, these are theories posted by someone in the field, much like what anyone can do and have it published on -insert your random blog or magazine here-. There is a difference between a "study" and a powerpoint presentation, study is backed with scientific data, an article can be written by anyone; hell, I could probably find articles to support whatever I wanted, if you want actual, verifiable information....

    And there haven't been much correlating the two or showing how it will actually increase, in fact, there have been actual studies in regards to carb back-loading as well as keeping as much nutrients to be consumed after your meal rather than throughout the day.
    Just to point out, test subjects were utilized in the various referenced studies used to form the theories, Bla55 most likely chose not to read them to find the context for ideas proposed and is only exercising knee-jerk skepticism.

    Let's flip things around a little bit:

    You seem to be using intermittent fasting, Bla55, and have a hard time believing any other diets are effective given the tone of your posts.

    In the context of this thread, we are discussing the anabolism of food, especially protein. My position is that the consistent intake of amino acids leads to more protein synthesis and less catabolism.

    Intermittent fasting diets recommend BCAA usage between meals and pre-workout. Why? Defend the position of leangain bcaa use. Playing devil's advocate, I'm callin bs. You don't need to take in aminos during a fast, even if you are about to work out.

    *bla's post edited for links that I can't reply with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Meal frequency has no direct correlation to metabolism. See "bulking" sub-forum and "meals" thread for a debate that is on this exact topic.
    To be clear, the argument was whether or not the spike in metabolism food creates can be manipulated for weight loss or not. But to reply here:

    "An irregular meal pattern (i.e. 3 meals on one day, 9 meals the next day, 6 meals the next day, etc...) has been shown to induce a significantly lower thermic effect of food than a regular meal pattern (i.e. a consistent 6 meals per day) that has the same total amount of calories."
    Farshchi HR, Taylor MA, Macdonald IA. Decreased thermic effect of food after an irregular compared with a regular meal pattern in healthy lean women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004 May;28(5):653-60.


    You'll have to go read the full study yourself though, still can't post links.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    To be clear, the argument was whether or not the spike in metabolism food creates can be manipulated for weight loss or not. But to reply here:

    "An irregular meal pattern (i.e. 3 meals on one day, 9 meals the next day, 6 meals the next day, etc...) has been shown to induce a significantly lower thermic effect of food than a regular meal pattern (i.e. a consistent 6 meals per day) that has the same total amount of calories."
    Farshchi HR, Taylor MA, Macdonald IA. Decreased thermic effect of food after an irregular compared with a regular meal pattern in healthy lean women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004 May;28(5):653-60.


    You'll have to go read the full study yourself though, still can't post links.
    From your study:

    "RESULTS:

    There were no significant differences in body weight and 3-day mean energy intake between the regular and irregular meal pattern. In the irregular period, the mean energy intake on the day when 9 meals were eaten was significantly greater than when 6 or 3 meals were consumed (P=0.0001). There was no significant difference between the 3 days of the regular meal pattern. Subjective appetite measurement showed no significant differences before and after the test meal in all visits. Fasting RMR showed no significant differences over the experiment. The overall thermic effect of food (TEF) over the 3 h after the test meal was significantly lower after the irregular meal pattern (P=0.003)."


    The study talks about regular or irregular meals. I.e. eating at the same time every day or random times. No significant difference when the meals were regularly eaten, whether it was 3, 6, or 9 meals a day.

    This speaks for meal regularity, not meal frequency.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15085170
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Just to point out, test subjects were utilized in the various referenced studies used to form the theories, Bla55 most likely chose not to read them to find the context for ideas proposed and is only exercising knee-jerk skepticism. Let's flip things around a little bit: You seem to be using intermittent fasting, Bla55, and have a hard time believing any other diets are effective given the tone of your posts. In the context of this thread, we are discussing the anabolism of food, especially protein. My position is that the consistent intake of amino acids leads to more protein synthesis and less catabolism. Intermittent fasting diets recommend BCAA usage between meals and pre-workout. Why? Defend the position of leangain bcaa use. Playing devil's advocate, I'm callin bs. You don't need to take in aminos during a fast, even if you are about to work out. *bla's post edited for links that I can't reply with.
    Hadn't seen this one; what I'm discussing is the need for multiple meals or just one. Leangains promotes the BCAA when doing cardio or working out in the morning, at the same time it also promotes for the biggest meal of the day to be after your workout and with the majority of your daily calories, which would then counteract the purpose of eating smaller meals a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    From your study:

    "RESULTS:

    There were no significant differences in body weight and 3-day mean energy intake between the regular and irregular meal pattern. In the irregular period, the mean energy intake on the day when 9 meals were eaten was significantly greater than when 6 or 3 meals were consumed (P=0.0001). There was no significant difference between the 3 days of the regular meal pattern. Subjective appetite measurement showed no significant differences before and after the test meal in all visits. Fasting RMR showed no significant differences over the experiment. The overall thermic effect of food (TEF) over the 3 h after the test meal was significantly lower after the irregular meal pattern (P=0.003)."


    The study talks about regular or irregular meals. I.e. eating at the same time every day or random times. No significant difference when the meals were regularly eaten, whether it was 3, 6, or 9 meals a day.

    This speaks for meal regularity, not meal frequency.
    The study is showing that there was no significant difference between the caloric intake of meals on the steady diet and intermittent, and that overall the caloric intake between both diets had no significant difference, although the caloric intake of the intermittent diet varied greatly per meal from day to day, which it would have to do in order to maintain the same level of caloric intake over a given time. I think you are interpreting it incorrectly, they are outlining the "ceteris paribus" basis of the study. One of your bold marks does support your argument though, no significant weight changes were noticed in the short term.

    To be sure, this is what the authors found:


    CONCLUSION: Irregular meal frequency led to a lower postprandial energy expenditure compared with the regular meal frequency, while the mean energy intake was not significantly different between the two. The reduced TEF with the irregular meal frequency may lead to weight gain in the long term.


    Here is another study on a diet's effect although, again, this gets in to nutrient timing considering proteins higher TEF value (various diets work through various metabolic pathways, ftr):

    Reduced postprandial energy expenditure and increased exogenous fat oxidation in young woman after ingestion of test meals with a low protein contentKlaus J Petzke and Susanne Klaus
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