Vegan vs vegetarian vs "normal" diet
- 11-27-2012, 03:36 PM
Vegan vs vegetarian vs "normal" diet
Discuss. I'm all about high protein and cycling carbs and fat but I came into a recent discussion with a colleague of mine and we started bantering about the different diets for people
I want this thread to be nothing other than scientific articles posting positive and negative effects of said diets along with your own commentary based on the study you have read
Who wants to be first?
- 11-28-2012, 11:59 AM
- 11-28-2012, 12:30 PM
From a friend I know
" I hear you. Until I see a chicken enema, or oxtail cleanse, or steak therapy lol I can't even go there. The basis of a healthy diet should first come from fruits and veges, then grains, lower on the table meats and fats in moderation. Any program where disease has afflicted the body all natural therapies lean toward vegetation as a cure. Yes grains and other excesses in other nutrients can cause problems for those who are ignorant to healthy balance. Nature says a lot about how to eat for instance, have you seen a weaned cow still drinking milk? No, so why do humans? Even veterinary medicine states do not feed milk to weaned animals because it causes iron loss and anemia through losses in the stool. Our systems aren't made for meat, it they were designed for that then we would be able to digest it the same way a lion does, tiger does, hyena does, without altering it through cooking. These animals have the strongest acids to digest even bone!! We can't digest bone, let along the meat we put in our system effectively. This leads to all the degenerative diseases we have today from osteoporosis, to diverticulitis, to cancer, and much more! This is why I push my clients to a healthier lifestyle of a plant based diet and if anything very little meat. Ill show you some research I have on my laptop today as well. "
That was in response to a comment matrix said
Due to the changing in genetic expressions, it is being found that our immune system is drastically changing. Vegetarians 30 years ago are not the same of today. Their diets are basically putting the body into a pro-inflammatory state, causing irritation to the intestinal wall, blocking nutrients from absorption due to increases of phytates, and other natural chelating minerals. Vegan diets are grain based which high high gluten, lechithen, soy content which has been shown to be associated with other autoimmune disorders. Diets high in carbs as indicated from his past history would put a person at higher risk of diabetes which is known to have lower T levels from possible depletion of zinc, magnesium, ect.
Unfortunately, the consequences of poor lifestyles and choice are what majority of health issues orginate from."
11-28-2012, 06:33 PM
You could counter his argument with saying people's digestive tracks evolved with the food we able to obtain. Over time it become easier for us to get food n eat more often. Like think of the cave men they had big means every so often to hold them over. Ur body gonna make do with what it gets if ur in survival mode. Like image a cave man eating a fast food meal who knows howd that go. I go low carb but I find my self eventually needed a lil more carbs. I feel tired sluggish n grumpy as hell then I Kno it time for a carb up day. But even then I don't go excessive.
Like everyone has said there is no one diet for all. It comes down to genics, body types, goals n preference. Ya dig. I just thought I'd hope in cuz nutrition / the way different diets treats different people interests me.
11-28-2012, 07:20 PM
I've tried Paleo and other diets but so far the one that is working best for me is vegan. I do think people need to experiment a little and find what is best for them.
11-28-2012, 08:21 PM
By working best what do you meanOriginally Posted by virago88
11-28-2012, 09:51 PM
11-29-2012, 04:25 AM
Hard to see that Paleobwould do that as vegan diets also incorporate grains
As far as energy it's constistant glucose so I can see how that is
11-29-2012, 06:05 AM
[QUOTE="EBF Inc"]Hard to see that Paleobwould do that as vegan diets also incorporate grains
I totally agree - but having protein and grains together were just a problem for me.
11-29-2012, 07:15 AM
I think vegan vegetarian would just make it even harder to get fats...
I think it depends on the individual and what there genetic make up, blood lipid looks like..
vegan will be terrible for some folk, whereas lots of meat might not be favourable for another person.. also keep in mind different goals..
This is the problem with paleo preachers pushing it as the best way to eat, yet the lack of readily available carbs probably isnt great for an athlete who trains a lot.
11-29-2012, 10:20 AM
I'm more interested in studies to prove disprove or debate
11-29-2012, 10:40 AM
There is absolutely nothing that even remotely suggest a vegan or vegetarian diet offers any intrinsic health benefits over an omnivores diet.
11-29-2012, 10:47 AM
I feel there has to be something. C'mon josh. I know you got something to disprove itOriginally Posted by JudoJosh
11-29-2012, 11:36 AM
11-29-2012, 11:43 AM
I just need resources to provide info. I always want to Learn
If I was vegan or vegetarian unless I had unlimited supply of beano my ass would kill someone
11-29-2012, 11:47 AM
LOL, such as? There is a TedX speech given by a lady who had MS and she cured her degerenative disease by making the bulk of her diet meats (specifically organ meats) and fruits and veggies. Her testimony will certainly fly in the face of his statement but again ask him for an exampleAny program where disease has afflicted the body all natural therapies lean toward vegetation as a cure.
Yes it does! Nature says we are omnivores. The evolution of our ability to use our brains come from our ancestors switch to meat diets. Our teeth says we eat meat. Our guts say we eat meat.Yes grains and other excesses in other nutrients can cause problems for those who are ignorant to healthy balance. Nature says a lot about how to eat
Meh this is debateable. Milk is sort of a grey area as some individuals have adapted to it quite well where others have not.have you seen a weaned cow still drinking milk? No, so why do humans? Even veterinary medicine states do not feed milk to weaned animals because it causes iron loss and anemia through losses in the stool.
LOl, how are you friends with this guy? Humans can't digest bones therefore we shouldn't eat meat? Yea that's real sound logic.Our systems aren't made for meat, it they were designed for that then we would be able to digest it the same way a lion does, tiger does, hyena does, without altering it through cooking. These animals have the strongest acids to digest even bone!! We can't digest bone, let along the meat we put in our system effectively. This leads to all the degenerative diseases we have today from osteoporosis, to diverticulitis, to cancer, and much more! This is why I push my clients to a healthier lifestyle of a plant based diet and if anything very little meat. Ill show you some research I have on my laptop today as well. "
11-29-2012, 11:48 AM
11-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Any evidence of health benefits from a vegetarian diet tend to be cross-sectional and therefore are prone to all of the associated biases. Most of the pro vegetarian research does not control for total calories consumed or processed versus unprocessed meat, and even then the evidence in favor of eating less meat is weak.
Beneficial effects of a Paleolithic diet on cardiovascular risk factors in type 2 diabetes: a randomized cross-over pilot study
American College of Cardiology Foundation | Journal of the American College of Cardiology | Vascular Dysfunction in Chinese Vegetarians: An Apparent Paradox?
German vegan study: diet, life-style ... [Ann Nutr Metab. 2005 Nov-Dec] - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin B12 deficiency is associated with ... [Clin Chem Lab Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin B-12 and homocysteine status among ve... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin B12 and homocysteine status in asym... [Indian J Pediatr. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI
11-29-2012, 12:11 PM
11-29-2012, 12:14 PM
Your the man dude!
11-29-2012, 05:28 PM
I found a few studies that are relevant. I have avoided sites or studies that are bias or have an agenda (a study funded by the meat industry promoting health benefits of high protein diets are just as dubious as a vegan-pro study funded by PETA). And apologies for not being able to provide the links as I don't have enough posts. But I've given enough of the sources info for you to easily google it.
The first study I found came from the US National Libary of Medicine. The Oxford Vegeterian Study was completed in the UK with subjects recruited between 1980-1984. Although this is a fairly dated study it is still worth looking at as it takes various lifestyle and dietary factors into consideration. They found that the health of vegeterans was better than meat eaters, but that vegans were at risk of iodine deficiency.
The next study, a more recent one came from Harvard.
Harvard's School of Public Health published research which observed 37,698 for 22 yrs and 83,644 women for up to 28 yrs. These subjects were free from cardiovascular disease and cancer at a base line. Their diets were assessed every four years. They discovered that "one daily serving of processed red meat (1 hot dog or 2 slices of bacon) was associated with a 20% increased [mortality] risk". Meanwhile, one daily serving (size of a deck of cards) of unprocessed red meat has a 13% increased risk. They also found benefits with replacing one serving of red meat with a healthier protein choice, like fish, poultry, nuts & legumes).
And finally, in June 2012 a study published in the Medical Journal of Australia, claimed health benefits of a Vegeterian diet over a meeting eating one. This study again noted that vegan were at a risk of developing a b12 deficiency, but the key was being a well prepared. A well prepared plant based diet can meet the nutritional needs for both children and adults.
In both the Harvard and Australian studies cancer, diabetes, obesity and rates where higher among the meat eating subjects.
Hope this adds another thinking point to a very interesting topic.
Last edited by virago88; 11-29-2012 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Typo
11-29-2012, 05:52 PM
Cite the studies.
PMID numbers or at least the title of the study
11-29-2012, 07:27 PM
Sure.Originally Posted by JudoJosh
'The Oxford Vegeterian Study': PMID 10479226 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
The Harvard one is called 'Red Meat Consumption and Mortality: Results from 2 Prospective Cohort Studies'. Arch Intern Med. 2012;172(7):555-563
A plant-based diet -- good for us and for the planet
MJA Open 2012; 1 Suppl 2: 5-6.
11-29-2012, 07:34 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
11-30-2012, 08:49 AM
What combat sport have you competed in on the Paleo diet, im curious.. I think Paleo would be good for sports "in general" just wouldnt have thought it would be very good for combat sports such as boxing or mma? ...
If you could pm us some info or post back in thread as im quite interested tbh.. I train boxing and thats the only thing that has kept me from trying Paleo as im training like 6 days a week often twicxe a day.
12-01-2012, 09:18 AM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-01-2012, 12:40 PM
I competed in kickboxing on a keto all was fine energy wise I had a ton during training csmp
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