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upcoming test run need nutrition approval

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    upcoming test run need nutrition approval


    Alright guys i have been looking into running my first injectable cycle and just want some clarification on nutrition since there is so many different views. I am still currently using the cutting protocol for leangains and with great results feel free to check out my results on the pics portion of this forum. I have went from 207 to sitting right at 160. I am looking for a good 10-15 lbs lbm trying to keep realistic. Right now im consuming 2400 calories on workout days and 1400 calories on off days. While on cycle i figured i would drop leangains and just do the traditional bb diet. I have figured to stay around 1000 calories over maintenance making my lifting days 3500 calories and my off days 3000 calories. As far as macros go i plan on keeping my fat consistent at 80g which is .5g per lb of bodyweight. For protein i have figured 320g 2g per lb of bodyweight. And to make up the difference with carbs my workout day would have 375g and my off days will have 250g what are your guys views on this layout?

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    looks good to me man!
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    Thanks bro.
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    Kill it man you're def gonna have fun on cycle
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    What is your weight/body composition doing at your current 2400/1400?

    Personally protein seems pretty high. 250g is plenty. You can eat slightly more but Imo no need to go over 300.

    How do you generally respond to carbs? What is you current carb intake?

    Again this is just how I would approach it. I would not make such a big jump. 1600 calories on non training days and 1100 on training days is a huge increase.

    I'd start progressively ramping them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    What is your weight/body composition doing at your current 2400/1400?

    Personally protein seems pretty high. 250g is plenty. You can eat slightly more but Imo no need to go over 300.

    How do you generally respond to carbs? What is you current carb intake?

    Again this is just how I would approach it. I would not make such a big jump. 1600 calories on non training days and 1100 on training days is a huge increase.

    I'd start progressively ramping them.
    I respond well to carbs as long as i use good sources such as quinoa brown rice sweet potatoes etc. I will probably still base my carbs around 2 hours pre and 2 hours post workout. Currently im still losing about a pound a week while following leangains i would say im about 8 to 10% right now check out my before and afters on the pics forum i agree a gradual increase may be a better route to take i think ill do the recomp for leangains and then slow bulk for a month before cycle so my body can adjust to what ill be doing when i drop leangains and start eating on cycle. Thoughts?
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    Bump
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    Bump for any more advice or thoughts
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    If you want lean gains I would stick with high fat med protein and low carbs.
    THe high fat diet will make your cycle much stronger than what you proposing and you prob may end up bigger with lower body fat once you figure what combo of protein/fat/carbs work for you.
    If quality muscle is your aim dont carb up it will not really help you all that much but put bulk weight on, which you will have to cut later.
    I've taken similar approach and had far better results with the high fat.
    If you interested we can go into the specific diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille
    If you want lean gains I would stick with high fat med protein and low carbs.
    THe high fat diet will make your cycle much stronger than what you proposing and you prob may end up bigger with lower body fat once you figure what combo of protein/fat/carbs work for you.
    If quality muscle is your aim dont carb up it will not really help you all that much but put bulk weight on, which you will have to cut later.
    I've taken similar approach and had far better results with the high fat.
    If you interested we can go into the specific diet.
    What macros would u recommend with the above?

    Going on blast myself in very near future and would like more info on this.
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    Lets say moderately active, lifting 5 days a week.
    WHat I would recommend to start:
    carbs 50g or less mostly vegetables and maybe a fruit(unless on the cheat meal up to 200g+ of carbs if you want)
    protein 220g
    fat 250g
    about 3300cal
    Once a week eat a whatever meal you wish. Now if you can handle this ok you can go to 2 cheat meals a week spaced every few days.(burger, pizza, baked patatoe whatever you crave etc)
    From this point on adjustments can be made based on how you look and feel.
    I'd recommend to start the diet few weeks before the blast to let your body accomodate with it.
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    I dont really have an intolerance to carbs while following leangains i consume close to 200g just in my post wo meal 4 days a week. Everyone is different though
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift View Post
    I dont really have an intolerance to carbs while following leangains i consume close to 200g just in my post wo meal 4 days a week. Everyone is different though
    you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with carb intolerance. It has to do with using carbs for it;s anabolic effect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille

    you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with carb intolerance. It has to do with using carbs for it;s anabolic effect.
    Elaborate
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift View Post
    Elaborate
    When you dont eat carbs for energy your body becomes more insulin sensititive at the cell level. If you consume fat to replace that energy need (which btw fat is insulin neutral) it give you the opportunity to make far greater gains when you use targeted insulin release.
    I've tried it and it works. I need very little insulin release to make gains now because im burning fat for energy and carbs to force growth but still staying lean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille

    When you dont eat carbs for energy your body becomes more insulin sensititive at the cell level. If you consume fat to replace that energy need (which btw fat is insulin neutral) it give you the opportunity to make far greater gains when you use targeted insulin release.
    I've tried it and it works. I need very little insulin release to make gains now because im burning fat for energy and carbs to force growth but still staying lean.
    Do you have a link or reference in which i can go and read more about this
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift

    Do you have a link or reference in which i can go and read more about this
    You know your body. If you're happy with what you're doing don't make such a drastic change.

    I personally would not do what is outlined above. But that's me.
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    Im not going to switch but was interested for a good read, there are thousands of diets out there i have tried quite a few and leangains is by far my favorite, no need to change but i had never read about anyone having 250g fat daily although in theory it makes sence i just think it would be interesting to read
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift View Post
    Im not going to switch but was interested for a good read, there are thousands of diets out there i have tried quite a few and leangains is by far my favorite, no need to change but i had never read about anyone having 250g fat daily although in theory it makes sence i just think it would be interesting to read
    This type of eating is not very popular in the states because eveyone is eating low fat in this country and is cholesterol phobic. I grew up in europe and we ate lots of fats there, so I know it's not a health concern for me. I grew up eating animal fat with a spoon and my entire family lives well into their 80s and 90s no heart disease.
    Here is a link where this doctor not only did an experiment but also did blood sample test. THis is part 3 of the 3 videos.
    If you are not comfortable with this approach just stick with your original diet. Just use this a backdrop in your knowledge quest.

    JumpstartMD presents Dr. Peter Attia on the Role of Fat in Weight Loss - Part 3 - YouTube
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    You know your body. If you're happy with what you're doing don't make such a drastic change.

    I personally would not do what is outlined above. But that's me.

    Are you taking from experience or just making a statement without bases?
    Im not making you do anything I just have a different way of bodybuilding which has served me well my friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    Are you taking from experience or just making a statement without bases?
    Im not making you do anything I just have a different way of bodybuilding which has served me well my friend.
    I am speaking my opinion, and that is I would not do what you have outlined, personally. I am glad it has served YOU well, but we are not talking about YOU. We are talking about someone who is likely in a different situation than you. We also know very little about the OP, other than the little blurb up top. I don't like making generic recommendations like you have above, with next to NO information.

    Coming off calorie restriction, and low BF you are primed for adding LBM but at the same time primed to store fat if approached incorrectly, and it is my opinion from EXPERIENCE(both myself, and the many people I work with), making such a jump is not wise. On top of that, making such a drastic change to a diet he feels is working well, doesn't make sense.

    To clarify, I have no problem with an abundance of fat, I just don't think approaching it like you have laid out is wise, with the information provided.
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    Thanks frank very helpful would u suggest next doing the LG recomp off my cut and then progressing to slow bulk?
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift View Post
    Thanks frank very helpful would u suggest next doing the LG recomp off my cut and then progressing to slow bulk?
    TBH I don't really go off %'s like LG does. I would just slowly start bringing calories up. How quickly I did this would depend on how the person was responding to the changes.

    What % of your "maintenance" are you using now to get 2400/1400? What is your projected "maintenance"? How many lifting days? What are your current macros?

    Have you decided to stick with LG through your cycle? You spoke of ditching it for a more "traditional" meal plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    TBH I don't really go off %'s like LG does. I would just slowly start bringing calories up. How quickly I did this would depend on how the person was responding to the changes.

    What % of your "maintenance" are you using now to get 2400/1400? What is your projected "maintenance"? How many lifting days? What are your current macros?

    Have you decided to stick with LG through your cycle? You spoke of ditching it for a more "traditional" meal plan.
    Right now i have my projected maintenance at 2200 calories and following a -35,+10% protocol to get lifting days 2400, and off days at 1400. My meals look as such. (Workout days) 2 meals pre wo 20%,20%,60% meal 1 and 2 consists of 36g protein, 8g fat, and 65g carbs, meal 3 my largest meal falls after my workout at around 8-9ish PM and consists of 108g protein, 24 g fat, and 200g carbs. (Non workout days) i have 60%, 20%, 20% with meal 1 being my largest meal breaking my fast at 1 PM first meal consists of 108g protein, 42g fat, 6g carbs. Meals 2 and three have 36g protein, 14g fat, 2g carb.
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    I haven't yet decided whether to stick with LG through my cycle that is if i can get test, the source i was going through scammed me so I'm trying to find someone. But i thought what i would do is transition from the +10 -35% cut to the +20-20% recomp then go to the-10+35% slow bulk then from there transition to 1000 calories over maintenance on lift days and 500 calories over maintenance on off days and following a traditional bb diet although maybe ill just make my maintenance calories 1000 calories higher and still do the +35-10% lean bulk LG regimen when i start my cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    I am speaking my opinion, and that is I would not do what you have outlined, personally. I am glad it has served YOU well, but we are not talking about YOU. We are talking about someone who is likely in a different situation than you. We also know very little about the OP, other than the little blurb up top. I don't like making generic recommendations like you have above, with next to NO information.

    Coming off calorie restriction, and low BF you are primed for adding LBM but at the same time primed to store fat if approached incorrectly, and it is my opinion from EXPERIENCE(both myself, and the many people I work with), making such a jump is not wise. On top of that, making such a drastic change to a diet he feels is working well, doesn't make sense.

    To clarify, I have no problem with an abundance of fat, I just don't think approaching it like you have laid out is wise, with the information provided.
    With all due respect, what's wise is to keep opinions to yourself if you just talk without bases.
    I offered an alternate plan to make lean gains. This plan is very similar to what Arnold, Robby Robinson and others around that era used to eat. This approach is researched and just about all early bodybuilders applied this diet very contrary to high carb diets of today's bodybuilders.
    If you want to stay lean most all bodybuilders agree that carbs need to be limited, or one end up doing either lots of drugs and/or cardio and still that doesnt guarantee staying lean.
    I think Arnold has accomplished a lot and set the bar for later bodybuilders so I really doubt he didnt know what he was doing.

    This diet maybe drastic to you but if you care to research the diet of the 70s bodybuilders you would find that they did mon-sat was a low carb/high fat/protein and sunday was junk day. Junk day was all you can eat and whetever you want to eat day.
    Im not trying to be nasty but offer backing to what I said.
    If you want to have a conv about this back your stuff up dont get all bent out of shape without really explaining why
    So shoot, why you think my approach is in your opinion not good?
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    Wow dude you are dense lol. No use even trying to explain further when I broke it down very clearly why I wouldn't follow your advice for HIS current situation.

    I am sorry if you can't extract my point from that(you have clearly missed it), but it's pretty cut and dry. I am not going to keep repeating myself.

    You keep saying "without bases" so I'm going to have to assume English isn't your first language.
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    LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille

    With all due respect, what's wise is to keep opinions to yourself if you just talk without bases.
    I offered an alternate plan to make lean gains. This plan is very similar to what Arnold, Robby Robinson and others around that era used to eat. This approach is researched and just about all early bodybuilders applied this diet very contrary to high carb diets of today's bodybuilders.
    If you want to stay lean most all bodybuilders agree that carbs need to be limited, or one end up doing either lots of drugs and/or cardio and still that doesnt guarantee staying lean.
    I think Arnold has accomplished a lot and set the bar for later bodybuilders so I really doubt he didnt know what he was doing.

    This diet maybe drastic to you but if you care to research the diet of the 70s bodybuilders you would find that they did mon-sat was a low carb/high fat/protein and sunday was junk day. Junk day was all you can eat and whetever you want to eat day.
    Im not trying to be nasty but offer backing to what I said.
    If you want to have a conv about this back your stuff up dont get all bent out of shape without really explaining why
    So shoot, why you think my approach is in your opinion not good?
    Sorry to burst ur bubble here guy but carbs dont make you fat, i eat 329 carbs each day i lift which is 4 days a week with 200 of those carbs falling at 9 PM and i have went from 15% bodyfat to 6-8ish% bodyfat while eating this way. Im not saying your theory is no good but before you bash frank who is just trying to help maybe you should research todays lifestyles and diets and quit thinking only about what was done in the70's, its the twentyfirst century we have evolved welcome to 2012. Now frank as you were saying?
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift

    Sorry to burst ur bubble here guy but carbs dont make you fat, i eat 329 carbs each day i lift which is 4 days a week with 200 of those carbs falling at 9 PM and i have went from 15% bodyfat to 6-8ish% bodyfat while eating this way. Im not saying your theory is no good but before you bash frank who is just trying to help maybe you should research todays lifestyles and diets and quit thinking only about what was done in the70's, its the twentyfirst century we have evolved welcome to 2012. Now frank as you were saying?
    So you've kind of been backloading. Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread.

    Being on test you can def manipulate calories different than off
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    Quote Originally Posted by live to lift View Post
    Sorry to burst ur bubble here guy but carbs dont make you fat, i eat 329 carbs each day i lift which is 4 days a week with 200 of those carbs falling at 9 PM and i have went from 15% bodyfat to 6-8ish% bodyfat while eating this way. Im not saying your theory is no good but before you bash frank who is just trying to help maybe you should research todays lifestyles and diets and quit thinking only about what was done in the70's, its the twentyfirst century we have evolved welcome to 2012. Now frank as you were saying?
    Haha then in the future dont bump a thread for more advice or thoughts bud if you not open to it! Just saying
    At 165lbs I wouldnt be making too much of it and if it's working for you why are you asking for advice anyway!
    Good luck with your cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Wow dude you are dense lol. No use even trying to explain further when I broke it down very clearly why I wouldn't follow your advice for HIS current situation.

    I am sorry if you can't extract my point from that(you have clearly missed it), but it's pretty cut and dry. I am not going to keep repeating myself.

    You keep saying "without bases" so I'm going to have to assume English isn't your first language.
    Stop being so full of yourself..LMAO
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille

    Stop being so full of yourself..LMAO
    Irony. Do you know what that is?

    If not, read your posts in this thread, then that last reply. That's irony.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille

    Haha then in the future dont bump a thread for more advice or thoughts bud if you not open to it! Just saying
    At 165lbs I wouldnt be making too much of it and if it's working for you why are you asking for advice anyway!
    Good luck with your cycle
    I appreciated your advice but you start flaming people for what they post to help as well and thats just not what the community is about i am open to thoughts and ideas and you apparently only see things ur way this thread was meant to be informative not just your way or no way so if you want to give advice i appriciate it but dont get mad when others dont feel that your way is most effective and give their oppinions to try and help
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    going off your first post it sounds like you've got everything in check especially the part where you drop leangains in favor of the more traditional bodybuilder diet, granted I'm no expert but bulking doesn't have to be complicated and micromanaged as long you're eating fairly clean and have a reasonable caloric surplus your muscles will grow and you won't get fat no need to over complicate something thats supposed to be fun.
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