plant based diet?

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    My mom has a crazy amount of health issues, diabetes, high cholesterol, blood pressure is out of wack, gets crazy infections, and on top of all that has throat cancer. Heard of this plant based diet and was curious if anyone has any personal experience with it. The claims it makes seem unreal, but I'm thinking it may be worth a 3 month try for her just to see how it goes.

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    You mean being a vegitarian or vegan? Or is there some other special diet with a name out there?
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    I think it basically came down to vegan, just was called this on the site I was reading. A lot of the things I've read has pointed me to the movie forks over knives, will watch that tonight.
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    Yes, I recommend reading the China Study. It basically says a whole food plant based diet is proven to inhibit cancer growth and prevent/treat against a lot of diseases. After reading it, you'll never want to eat meat or drink milk again! Lol
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    Thanks I'll look for that book. I've been doing a lot of research on nutrition in correlation to health. It really is mind blowing what the claims are and the studys show. I'm sure a lot of it is biased and stretched to fit their theories, but it has to have some substance.
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    Just ordered that book. Thanks for the suggestion!
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    vegetarian, plant-based dieters


    You need to take care about what you eat in order to obtain the maximum nutrients from your food. Like for example, vegans eat foods from plant origins only, soya products are valuable sources of vitamins and minerals. Protein foods like eggs, wholegrain and soya beans are all excellent and inexpensive sources of protein. Get plenty of iron, so fill up on leafy green vegetables such as cabbage, dried apricots and broccoli. Zinc levels should also vary like sprinkle some wheatgerm and seeds over meals.
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    China Study for the most part has been debunked and Forks over Knives is a biased take on the veggie/vegan lifestyle
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    The china study is really bull****. Serious. Debunked ike crazy. Searcgh for threads on it, i know JudoJosh has posted on it. Completly ****.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodey41 View Post
    My mom has a crazy amount of health issues, diabetes, high cholesterol, blood pressure is out of wack, gets crazy infections, and on top of all that has throat cancer. Heard of this plant based diet and was curious if anyone has any personal experience with it. The claims it makes seem unreal, but I'm thinking it may be worth a 3 month try for her just to see how it goes.
    Diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure are all possible high insulin complications. It would benefit her to go on a low carb diet. As for the throat cancer look into high dose vitamins such as vit D and boosting her immune system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    The china study is really bull****. Serious. Debunked ike crazy. Searcgh for threads on it, i know JudoJosh has posted on it. Completly ****.
    +1. I wouldnt trust it either
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    Debunked? What's the leading cause of of death in America? Heart disease. What country consumes the most from dairy/animal sources which are high in saturated fat? USA. I don't mean be blatant but it makes sense and there are a lot of studies that back it up.
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    And a low carb diet? Yeah if you want to dehydrate yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Debunked? What's the leading cause of of death in America? Heart disease. What country consumes the most from dairy/animal sources which are high in saturated fat? USA. I don't mean be blatant but it makes sense and there are a lot of studies that back it up.
    Yes, heavily debunked. In fact a member of this forum made a very long, in depth post on how it was debunked. How about you check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4

    Its a snippet from a documentary called fat head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Debunked? What's the leading cause of of death in America? Heart disease. What country consumes the most from dairy/animal sources which are high in saturated fat? USA. I don't mean be blatant but it makes sense and there are a lot of studies that back it up.

    India consumes the least amount of animal meat high in saturated fat. Guess what their number one cause of death is....wait for it.....heart disease.

    India has the highest percentage of vegans & vegetarians in the entire world. Guess what their number one cause of death is....see above.
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    There are a lot of other factors like exercise poverty and genetics that play a role. 1/3 of India's population is poor. Also their healthcare system is barely developed so the surgeries in the US that we take for granted are not utilized in India. Again consuming excess saturated fat raises your LDL levels(bad cholesterol) which forms a plaque in your arteries. Why do you think Every other American is overweight?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7
    There are a lot of other factors like exercise poverty and genetics that play a role. 1/3 of India's population is poor. Also their healthcare system is barely developed so the surgeries in the US that we take for granted are not utilized in India. Again consuming excess saturated fat raises your LDL levels(bad cholesterol) which forms a plaque in your arteries. Why do you think Every other American is overweight?
    Consistently elevated insulin secretion and the metabolic syndrome that follows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    And a low carb diet? Yeah if you want to dehydrate yourself.
    You have a lot to learn my friend, I'd suggest do more reading and less posting for a while till you get you footing in the nutrition world more established.
    I dont care how you personally eat but posting stuff that is not correct will get you nowhere fast. All these ppl who answered your posts are correct and in time if you bother to research rather than post diner tables conversations will come to a different result.
    It also wont hurt to try some of the diets yourself and get blood work done which will help to clear up misconceptions. Many seasoned ppl on this board has done their research and had personal experiences to share. If you did that you wont be taking like you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    There are a lot of other factors like exercise poverty and genetics that play a role. 1/3 of India's population is poor. Also their healthcare system is barely developed so the surgeries in the US that we take for granted are not utilized in India. Again consuming excess saturated fat raises your LDL levels(bad cholesterol) which forms a plaque in your arteries. Why do you think Every other American is overweight?
    2/3's or indias population are not poor by your reasoning. I know many people who have "excessive" fat intakes who are 5-10%bf who do not have clogged arteries etc.

    Being FAT makes you at risk for heart disease, eating fat does not. The too are not directly correlated just because the words match. Find the linkage between saturated fats and testosterone and get your blood work done, for all you know, you might have lower test because you avoid it.

    Like I said, watch the video snippet and do some research. Being overweight places you at risk for heart disease, not eating fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7
    Debunked? What's the leading cause of of death in America? Heart disease. What country consumes the most from dairy/animal sources which are high in saturated fat? USA. I don't mean be blatant but it makes sense and there are a lot of studies that back it up.
    Also a diet high in carbs but also a very sedentary population. Come on, you can't be that naive.
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    I never said that saturated fat causes obesity. Most of America is sedentary and does not eat their recommended daily value of fiber which fights against high cholesterol levels. You can't deny that high cholesterol leads to heart disease. I understand what you are saying about research as I am becoming a dietitian at that moment. Have you read the China study?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    I never said that saturated fat causes obesity. Most of America is sedentary and does not eat their recommended daily value of fiber which fights against high cholesterol levels. You can't deny that high cholesterol leads to heart disease. I understand what you are saying about research as I am becoming a dietitian at that moment. Have you read the China study?
    It's nonsense.
    This entire mess about low fat diet was started by this idiot..Ancel Keys. Read up on him and see how his study is bogus much like the china study.
    Cholesterol as a whole does not lead to heart disease. Why do you think the liver makes cholesterol...to kill us??
    Low density LDL gets trapped under inflamed arteries which allow the small particle LDL to sneak into the creavices causing plague to form. You CANNOT eliminate cholesterol ....you will die!
    People die more often from low cholesterol than normal cholesterol.
    Cholesterol is essential to life, the brain, skin and many other organs in our body.
    Being sedentary means nothing to cholesterol levels. Infants who are obese do not choose to not exercise..think about it!!
    In general contrary to popular belief exercise has nothing to do with cholesterol. If you eat planty of carbohydrates in many cases you will get fat even if you exercise.
    These are a few facts to work on understanding nutrition. I abreviated some of the explanations but you get the idea. Keep researching you barely scratched the surface. If you only source of info is the research on china study you are not going to learn a lot...THat's saying the Ancel Keys was correct in his study which know he was dead wrong.
    Here is example for you to explain to me: why do eschimo population leave a healthy life only eating fat about 75% of their diet and protein with minimal berries intake in the summer?
    Hint, their cholesterol is high yet they wont die of heart disease as you suggest.
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    Yes cholesterol is produced by the liver but we do not need to ingest it at all. Even though there is a Daily value for it does not mean it is essential. The low fat diet in the china study is the only part I slightly disagree with. Its only for people who are fighting against disease or obesity in my opinion. I can't make an assumption about the Eskimos because there is so much that affects their lifestyle other than diet. (Genetics, exercise, etc)
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    Prob best if you start another thread about this if you interested in further discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodey41 View Post
    Thanks I'll look for that book. I've been doing a lot of research on nutrition in correlation to health. It really is mind blowing what the claims are and the studys show. I'm sure a lot of it is biased and stretched to fit their theories, but it has to have some substance.
    Dont be fooled there are just claims. Just look at what happened to america where so many ppl are sick and overweight. It all started with a theory and biased info and here we are 50 years later of the low fat epidemic.
    What foods would you be eating on a plant diet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Yes cholesterol is produced by the liver but we do not need to ingest it at all. Even though there is a Daily value for it does not mean it is essential. The low fat diet in the china study is the only part I slightly disagree with. Its only for people who are fighting against disease or obesity in my opinion. I can't make an assumption about the Eskimos because there is so much that affects their lifestyle other than diet. (Genetics, exercise, etc)
    We do need to ingest it, the liver doesnt make enough of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille
    Prob best if you start another thread about this if you interested in further discussion.
    I actually enjoy the 2 different views and will be researching both. As far as me personally I won't be doing any plant based diet or vegan, more or less taking elements of it and cutting down the meat intake somewhat, if I find that's the diet choice I like. My plan was to use it to help out my mom who's cancer was in remission in trying to stay that way. And along with that help her diabetes, high blood pressure, and just overall horrible health.
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    As I said in my first post, I know the China study, forks over knives, and the things pushing veganism is biased, just like a diet supporting high meat intake would have bias proving their point. That's why intend on reading things that say to debunk the China study once I've finished reading it. Personally for me, I want to find a diet that works for me, and helps me maintain long term health, while still being able to enjoy a can of Dr pepper and some chipotle. Pure veganism is no way I could live.
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    Our body makes enough cholesterol. I don't know where you learned that the liver doesn't make enough. The human body is always trying to maintain homeostasis. If there wasn't enough cholesterol than it would simply produce more.
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    Vassille you are missing the point. A low fat diet is not the main argument. It is eating naturally. Plants, fruits vegetables, legumes, seeds, etc. Meat has no carbs and is high in saturated fat. You can get protein from plants just as easy as from meat. I am not a vegetarian but I feel a lot better as an athlete when I eat a salad and drink water instead of eating a chicken sandwich and milk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodey41 View Post
    I actually enjoy the 2 different views and will be researching both. As far as me personally I won't be doing any plant based diet or vegan, more or less taking elements of it and cutting down the meat intake somewhat, if I find that's the diet choice I like. My plan was to use it to help out my mom who's cancer was in remission in trying to stay that way. And along with that help her diabetes, high blood pressure, and just overall horrible health.
    That's a fair approach.
    About the thread I wasnt sure you wanted all this talking points on here and didnt want to go off course from the original post. Nutrition is simple yet complex and there is always plenty to talk about especially the many views that are out there. It took me many years to sort through fact and fiction. THere is a lot of missinformation out there and some is coming from the food manufacturers which doesnt help the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Vassille you are missing the point. A low fat diet is not the main argument. It is eating naturally. Plants, fruits vegetables, legumes, seeds, etc. Meat has no carbs and is high in saturated fat. You can get protein from plants just as easy as from meat. I am not a vegetarian but I feel a lot better as an athlete when I eat a salad and drink water instead of eating a chicken sandwich and milk.
    Your hypotesis is unfounded. Meat is also natural and saturated fat is good for you. Yes you can eat a balanced diet with meat, vegetables, seeds, and to an extent lower amount of legumes and be just fine. I grew up in an environment where we consumed a plant based diet in the summer along with some meat and in the winter we ate mostly meat and saturated fat/lard. I would never just live off a plant based diet, it would be useless and would have little to no benefit to me long term. I have relatives who are well into their 80-90 eating like this and are just fine.

    Being an athlete is different than being a regular person. An athlete would push the body to the limit to increase performance. Taking for exmple creatine is not great for you body but it helps with perfomance. So you see there is a consequence for everything we do. THe question is what do you want to accomplish!
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    Lol vassille as long as we are settling this debate. I agree but there are good and bad sources of saturated fat. I am currently horrible at cooking so there is no way I can integrate a plant based diet. And as far as working towards something, it's true that there are pros and cons. I'm not so sure thought about creatine because it's never been proven to cause harm when drinking enough water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Our body makes enough cholesterol. I don't know where you learned that the liver doesn't make enough. The human body is always trying to maintain homeostasis. If there wasn't enough cholesterol than it would simply produce more.
    True, but getting it in the food supply is more effecient, or should I say you dont have to avoid eating it because your body makes it anyway haha. Normally, our body produces roughly ~80% of total cholesterol. The rest can come from exogenous sources, i.e the food supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Vassille you are missing the point. A low fat diet is not the main argument. It is eating naturally. Plants, fruits vegetables, legumes, seeds, etc. Meat has no carbs and is high in saturated fat. You can get protein from plants just as easy as from meat. I am not a vegetarian but I feel a lot better as an athlete when I eat a salad and drink water instead of eating a chicken sandwich and milk.
    And not suite as easily. For one, plant proteins are not absorbed QUITE as quickly as animal proteins nor do plants have complete amino profiles so you must have a wide variety of plant sources to create a complete protein molecule. Thus if a plant is missing just one amino and you fail to provide a plant source providing another then a complete protein cannot be made.

    But if you know which ones to use, then by all means. But eating healthy isnt defined as just eating plants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Lol vassille as long as we are settling this debate. I agree but there are good and bad sources of saturated fat. I am currently horrible at cooking so there is no way I can integrate a plant based diet. And as far as working towards something, it's true that there are pros and cons. I'm not so sure thought about creatine because it's never been proven to cause harm when drinking enough water.
    Like what fats are you refering?
    Well if you cant cook then make a salad that's plant based.
    Creatine is over rated. I tried it, been training for 20 years I preffer to not take creatine. When I took it I was always dehydrated, bloated and as soon as I stop it all the water weight goes away and you back to the initial starting point. I preffer to spend the money on food.lol
    I get more bang for my buck that way!
    Im sure it may work for some..maybe for those who dont make enough or eat it but I dont seem to need it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    Like what fats are you refering?
    Well if you cant cook then make a salad that's plant based.
    Creatine is over rated. I tried it, been training for 20 years I preffer to not take creatine. When I took it I was always dehydrated, bloated and as soon as I stop it all the water weight goes away and you back to the initial starting point. I preffer to spend the money on food.lol
    I get more bang for my buck that way!
    Im sure it may work for some..maybe for those who dont make enough or eat it but I dont seem to need it.
    I dont think creatine is overrated (especially since its dirt cheap), but its certainly not necessary. But I definitly agree if you have to decide which way to spend your money, good food is always the way to go.
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    Jiigzz I don't want to get in Another big argument lol but your liver produces all of the cholesterol you need for your cells. This makes it non essential for you to consume. Also I wouldnt worry too much about amino acids as long as the protein intake is above the RDA. Including a variety of plants in your diet ensures you get all of the essential amino acids for a vegetarian. I could eat a peanut butter sandwich and have a complete protein meal or just eat soy or quinoa which are also complete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Jiigzz I don't want to get in Another big argument lol but your liver produces all of the cholesterol you need for your cells. This makes it non essential for you to consume. Also I wouldnt worry too much about amino acids as long as the protein intake is above the RDA. Including a variety of plants in your diet ensures you get all of the essential amino acids for a vegetarian. I could eat a peanut butter sandwich and have a complete protein meal or just eat soy or quinoa which are also complete.
    If you just want to be vegetarian that's fine but dont mistake that for being healthier because it is not. It has it's own challanges even though you seem to make yourself believe otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdiPure7 View Post
    Jiigzz I don't want to get in Another big argument lol but your liver produces all of the cholesterol you need for your cells. This makes it non essential for you to consume. Also I wouldnt worry too much about amino acids as long as the protein intake is above the RDA. Including a variety of plants in your diet ensures you get all of the essential amino acids for a vegetarian. I could eat a peanut butter sandwich and have a complete protein meal or just eat soy or quinoa which are also complete.
    You realise that Athletes, Bodybuilders etc. have a different protein requirement to that of a sedentary person right? RDA's dont apply for macros. Hence why their is exercise nutritionalists and general public nutritionalists. Sedenatry people can eat as little as .8g/KG/BW of protein per day for their needs as they dont put much stress on their muscles, whereas a weight liffter needs 1.6-1.8g/KG/BW and an adolescent needs 2g/Kg/BW. IT varies dependant on how active you are.
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    Yes I know that protein intake depends a lot on activity and age. I was just saying that a vegetarian can get all the amino acids. And vassille I'm not pushing vegetarianism I'm just saying there is a lot more benefits to a plant based diet than there is just mostly meat. As long as you eat enough fruits vegetables and fiber by all means meat can be incorporated into a healthy lifestyle.
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