Only place im not tired is the gym....

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    Only place im not tired is the gym....


    How do I feel like this?

    Wake up after 8 hour sleep( granted it doesnt feel deep or undisturbed)? Tired.
    Get into work? Tired.
    After breakfast/lunch? Tired.

    I feel exhausted all the time, yawning and generally hot with no energy, apart from when im playing sport of exercising.

    I am low carbing ( 150g a day max) 200g protein and around 40-50g natural fats. I am 5'11 weighing 245lbs with a bodyfat of 24%. I've been on a long term cut. I lift 3/4 times a week and do cardio between 30-45 minutes a day.

    Literally the only place I feel alive is during and after my workouts where I have good energy and a sense of well-being. Why am I tired everywhere else? It makes no sense. I am having vivid nightmares for the most part like i'm in wars and random horrid stuff, cant remember the last time I felt relaxed after a long deep sleep.

    I have a feeling people are going to pull me up for a low natural fat intake and also being dependant on stimulants like the EC stack, I am willing to address this but im especially wary of the added calories higher levels of natural fat will bring. 9 cals per 1 gram.

    Any ideas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah
    How do I feel like this?

    Wake up after 8 hour sleep( granted it doesnt feel deep or undisturbed)? Tired.
    Get into work? Tired.
    After breakfast/lunch? Tired.

    I feel exhausted all the time, yawning and generally hot with no energy, apart from when im playing sport of exercising.

    I am low carbing ( 150g a day max) 200g protein and around 40-50g natural fats. I am 5'11 weighing 245lbs with a bodyfat of 24%. I've been on a long term cut. I lift 3/4 times a week and do cardio between 30-45 minutes a day.

    Literally the only place I feel alive is during and after my workouts where I have good energy and a sense of well-being. Why am I tired everywhere else? It makes no sense. I am having vivid nightmares for the most part like i'm in wars and random horrid stuff, cant remember the last time I felt relaxed after a long deep sleep.

    I have a feeling people are going to pull me up for a low natural fat intake and also being dependant on stimulants like the EC stack, I am willing to address this but im especially wary of the added calories higher levels of natural fat will bring. 9 cals per 1 gram.

    Any ideas?
    When your cutting for a long time your body will revolt. Low Carb or adrenal fatigue could be the culprit given the ec mentioned. Your fat intake is fine haha.
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    Adrenal fatigue looks horrifying lol, ive had a look at that before and I really hope its nothing to do with that.

    I should add i've just started taking lean extreme which lowers your cortisol levels, this can also effect your sleep positively so at worst I can wait a few weeks and re-asses. But you know that feeling you get in the afternoon of a massive crash? I feel like im on that 70% of the day, then I workout and BOOM fine for the remainder of the evening.

    I dont want to come off a cut and eat at maintenance I see that as a lack of progress, im nowhere near where I want to be in terms of bodyfat and a few weeks eating at maintenance sadly will mean for me I stick back on like 14lbs. I had a cheat day at the weekend for a wedding, I ate more than usual then bam 3lbs heavier on monday...it then takes 4-5 days to work that off again. Its just not worth a cheat day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah
    Adrenal fatigue looks horrifying lol, ive had a look at that before and I really hope its nothing to do with that.

    I should add i've just started taking lean extreme which lowers your cortisol levels, this can also effect your sleep positively so at worst I can wait a few weeks and re-asses. But you know that feeling you get in the afternoon of a massive crash? I feel like im on that 70% of the day, then I workout and BOOM fine for the remainder of the evening.

    I dont want to come off a cut and eat at maintenance I see that as a lack of progress, im nowhere near where I want to be in terms of bodyfat and a few weeks eating at maintenance sadly will mean for me I stick back on like 14lbs. I had a cheat day at the weekend for a wedding, I ate more than usual then bam 3lbs heavier on monday...it then takes 4-5 days to work that off again. Its just not worth a cheat day.
    When you diet for so long your thyroid hormone levels drop and that is what controls metabolism. Staying on a cut will hinder weight loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt

    When you diet for so long your thyroid hormone levels drop and that is what controls metabolism. Staying on a cut will hinder weight loss.
    The crash thing is also describing is adrenal fatigue caused by ephedrine abuse.Which is bad. Come off of ephedrine and Stimson for 4 to 8 weeks and come off that diet for 4 weeks and you'll feel fine
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    Just got back from the docs, told her my progress and what i've been taking. She asked if im taking any stimulants and nearly had a heart attack when I told her ive been taking 600-700mg of caffeine a day for the last month at least, she thinks thats what's exhausting me so as of now no more stimulants. I will receive a headache for about a week until my body gets used to no caffeine.

    I thought id try and get a cheeky free testosterone test as for peace of mind she said i can get a blood test on thyroid, glucose,etc normal adrenal fatigue tests, and said " some of the boys on the forum reckon my test levels could be playing a part in my sleeping pattern, is it worth getting those checked also" she turned around and said " are you using a test booster" lol, she knew right off I was. Told her i'm using bioforge lol.
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    Try getting up early and working out when u wake up. Maybe u will feel better throughout the day.

    I
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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah
    Just got back from the docs, told her my progress and what i've been taking. She asked if im taking any stimulants and nearly had a heart attack when I told her ive been taking 600-700mg of caffeine a day for the last month at least, she thinks thats what's exhausting me so as of now no more stimulants. I will receive a headache for about a week until my body gets used to no caffeine.

    I thought id try and get a cheeky free testosterone test as for peace of mind she said i can get a blood test on thyroid, glucose,etc normal adrenal fatigue tests, and said " some of the boys on the forum reckon my test levels could be playing a part in my sleeping pattern, is it worth getting those checked also" she turned around and said " are you using a test booster" lol, she knew right off I was. Told her i'm using bioforge lol.
    It may be your test levels considering you've been on a diet for a long time. More likely the ephedrine reliance.
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    I used to feel that way too. Turns out I have sleep apnea. If you sleep with someone you might ask them if they notice if your breathing stops while asleep.
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    Id increase fats; fats play a role in test production
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    Wow....this sounds very similar to what I experienced six months ago. The nightmare or disturbed sleep is high cortisol. My suggestion take a week off from all exercise and stimulants, more if you need to before this progresses into a more severe form of adrenal insufficiency. I didn't and eventually I stopped sleeping (four nights straight without any sleep), developed anxiety and mild depression, started putting on fat, developed tremors and couldn't handle work. It's taken me approximately 6 months to recover, 3 of which I've not done any exercise because I kept returning to the gym too early. I'm now into my third week and feeling good. I would also get a high dose vitamin B complex and 3-5 grams of vitamin C a day. Trust me on this....take action now or you will suffer far more severely over a considerably longer period. I don't mean to alarmist but what you have described almost mirrors my symptoms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    Wow....this sounds very similar to what I experienced six months ago. The nightmare or disturbed sleep is high cortisol. My suggestion take a week off from all exercise and stimulants, more if you need to before this progresses into a more severe form of adrenal insufficiency. I didn't and eventually I stopped sleeping (four nights straight without any sleep), developed anxiety and mild depression, started putting on fat, developed tremors and couldn't handle work. It's taken me approximately 6 months to recover, 3 of which I've not done any exercise because I kept returning to the gym too early. I'm now into my third week and feeling good. I would also get a high dose vitamin B complex and 3-5 grams of vitamin C a day. Trust me on this....take action now or you will suffer far more severely over a considerably longer period. I don't mean to alarmist but what you have described almost mirrors my symptoms.
    I don't see how increasing vitamin c or any of the B complex will help; unless you're deficient or not getting enough from your diet in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I don't see how increasing vitamin c or any of the B complex will help; unless you're deficient or not getting enough from your diet in the first place.
    From the OP symptoms I think his adrenals are struggling due to excessive stimulant use and other factors. Apparently the highest concentration of vitamin c in the body is found in the adrenals and because it is utilised, as are the B vitamins, in the production of the adrenal hormones, including cortisol, it is depleted quickly when the adrenals are overly stimulated due to stress. It together with B vitamins helped me massively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321 View Post
    From the OP symptoms I think his adrenals are struggling due to excessive stimulant use and other factors. Apparently the highest concentration of vitamin c in the body is found in the adrenals and because it is utilised, as are the B vitamins, in the production of the adrenal hormones, including cortisol, it is depleted quickly when the adrenals are overly stimulated due to stress. It together with B vitamins helped me massively.
    Ah yeah I see. I usually get between 3-4g of Vitamin C a day. Good post and good advice
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    How much sun/vitamin d do you get? This can play a major role.

    Also I have noticed going to bed at 11pm and sleeping until 7 is completly different than going to sleep at 1 am and sleeping until 9am. Its the same amount of sleep-but i find the quality is better the earlier you sleep.

    Also you could try not having carbs for breakfast (if you do). Eat egg whites or somthing instead. I find i'm always tired if i eat carbs for breakfast. When I eat eggs its not so bad.

    Another thing you could consider is eating a little above maintenance calorie level for 2-3 weeks. This will just let your body recover a little from the cut and let your leptin levels return to normal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    How much sun/vitamin d do you get? This can play a major role.

    Also I have noticed going to bed at 11pm and sleeping until 7 is completly different than going to sleep at 1 am and sleeping until 9am. Its the same amount of sleep-but i find the quality is better the earlier you sleep.

    Also you could try not having carbs for breakfast (if you do). Eat egg whites or somthing instead. I find i'm always tired if i eat carbs for breakfast. When I eat eggs its not so bad.

    Another thing you could consider is eating a little above maintenance calorie level for 2-3 weeks. This will just let your body recover a little from the cut and let your leptin levels return to normal.
    This changes depending on the person and their normal sleeping routine. I myself function alot better at night time so I tend to take advantage and stay up till about 12pm most nights and do some reading or whatever. When I wake up at 8am i'm very refreshed and ready for the next day. Just depends on your sleeping routine. It's just what you get used to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This changes depending on the person and their normal sleeping routine. I myself function alot better at night time so I tend to take advantage and stay up till about 12pm most nights and do some reading or whatever. When I wake up at 8am i'm very refreshed and ready for the next day. Just depends on your sleeping routine. It's just what you get used to.
    This is true. I normally fall asleep by 12.30am and get up at 8.30 or 9. However when i fall asleap at 10pm some nights (usually friday) i feel better than usual the next day. However due to my busy schedule falling asleep at 10 isn't always possible. you are right though. Its just what works for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    This is true. I normally fall asleep by 12.30am and get up at 8.30 or 9. However when i fall asleap at 10pm some nights (usually friday) i feel better than usual the next day. However due to my busy schedule falling asleep at 10 isn't always possible. you are right though. Its just what works for you.
    I ca concur....it seems the quality of sleep depends upon when one sleeps as well as the number of hours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    This is true. I normally fall asleep by 12.30am and get up at 8.30 or 9. However when i fall asleap at 10pm some nights (usually friday) i feel better than usual the next day. However due to my busy schedule falling asleep at 10 isn't always possible. you are right though. Its just what works for you.
    I guess it depends on how tired you were beforehand as well. I find, personally, that going to sleep as soon as I start to get tired is better than waiting until im completly exhausted because I tend to just feel like c**p in the morning haha
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    i think its ALL in your diet monfrair.... you cant low carb and lowfat diet... what are ya crazy!?? your doing it wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xR1pp3Rx View Post
    i think its ALL in your diet monfrair.... you cant low carb and lowfat diet... what are ya crazy!?? your doing it wrong.
    This. Didnt even pick up on that.
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    im glad someone picked up on that!
    Dude, unless you want to have a heart attack you might want to do a deep nutrition 101 study.
    You got 2 forms of energy fat and carbs and 3rd protein which should never be used as energy source unless you want to poison yourself and die.
    What do you think your body will use as energy if you cut carbs and fat out?
    try this
    150g of carbs
    150g of fat
    200g of protein
    see how that works out and if you want to make adjustments cut back on the carbs to 100g and increase fats to 175. You need those calories to survive ma'man otherwise you will damage your heart valves with all the stimulants and low caloric intake.
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    Ok an update.

    I've cut back 90% of the stimulants I take. I am taking no pre-workout shakes and I am having only 1/2 cups of coffee a day- ill cut to zero soon was just coming off it lightly. I have also started to take lean extreme which controls cortisol levels. In general I feel a lot more fresh and there has been a definite improvement, ive also upped the natural fats a bit in the form of 1/2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter or 50g almonds a day. Sleep seems a little more uninterrupted now also, I wouldn't say I feel i'm ready to run a marathon when I get up but it at least feels like Ive been sleeping/resting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This. Didnt even pick up on that.
    Why not? I am still over 50g fats a day and around 100g carbs, I am massively carb sensitive, I actually have felt great in the gym the last two days. My diet consting of:

    2 whole eggs
    1 slice brown bread toast

    200g lean beef
    100g salmon
    250g broccoli, carrots, green beans

    2 tablespoons natural peanut butter

    pro-complex protein shake

    27g whole oats

    100g salmon
    200g mixed vegetables

    pro-complex shake

    low fat natural yoghurt with blueberries

    The carbs came from the fiberous veg, oats and brown bread.
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    good deal! itll only get better and better as your diet improves and your insulin normalizes
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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah View Post
    Ok an update.

    I've cut back 90% of the stimulants I take. I am taking no pre-workout shakes and I am having only 1/2 cups of coffee a day- ill cut to zero soon was just coming off it lightly. I have also started to take lean extreme which controls cortisol levels. In general I feel a lot more fresh and there has been a definite improvement, ive also upped the natural fats a bit in the form of 1/2 tablespoons of natural peanut butter or 50g almonds a day. Sleep seems a little more uninterrupted now also, I wouldn't say I feel i'm ready to run a marathon when I get up but it at least feels like Ive been sleeping/resting.
    Good. Listen we are trying to help you out I know I busted your chops a bit but it's that serious what you were doing is not good for you. Any time you go on a low carb diet you need to increase fat. Dont be afraid you wont get fat from eating more fat. THe opposite, will help you burn fat.
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    It is appreciated trust me. Thank you.

    Another question is there any negative factor in having much more protein than 1 gram per 1lb? Diet today...

    43g Carbs
    45g Fats
    215g Protein

    By the time I have my last meal plus peanut butter scoops i'll end up roughly...

    75g Carbs
    90g Fats
    300g Protein

    On a cut, what will happen to the excess protein seeing as though my LBM is at 195lbs?

    I am going to climb up with the fats and carbs in the next few days. To post 100g like the advice above. The problem is I feel I put weight on so easily when I up my carbs.

    Isn't the point of cutting those energy sources(fat/carbs) to force your body into using energy from your fat stores?

    Keto might be a better bet for me.
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    Your fats are still much to low for your size. Eating fat does not make you fat, that myth was busted a long time ago. If you limit carbs, which are the body's primary source of energy for brain and muscular fuel, then you need to eat fats to offset the body from catabolizing much needed protein for energy. If you cut out or severly limit the body from energy sources then it will have no choice but to use the protein for energy when you want it to help repair muscle tissue after exercise.

    Energy has to be supplied somewhere and your setting yourself up for failure.

    Not only that but fats are needed for testosterone production. Low fats may equal low test, which will also inhibit muscle growth.

    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah View Post

    Isn't the point of cutting those energy sources(fat/carbs) to force your body into using energy from your fat stores?
    And not quite. Its not as simpe as that. Limiting carbs can help the body used stored fuels for energy, but it will also use the food you eat; and when you only feed it protein, guess what will be used for fuel, alongside stored fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah View Post
    It is appreciated trust me. Thank you.

    Another question is there any negative factor in having much more protein than 1 gram per 1lb? Diet today...

    43g Carbs
    45g Fats
    215g Protein

    By the time I have my last meal plus peanut butter scoops i'll end up roughly...

    75g Carbs
    90g Fats
    300g Protein

    On a cut, what will happen to the excess protein seeing as though my LBM is at 195lbs?

    I am going to climb up with the fats and carbs in the next few days. To post 100g like the advice above. The problem is I feel I put weight on so easily when I up my carbs.

    Isn't the point of cutting those energy sources(fat/carbs) to force your body into using energy from your fat stores?

    Keto might be a better bet for me.
    I understand your concern and confusion and this is why Im going to take a few min and explain the process. I feel you really want to get on the right track but it seems your knowledge is a bit shaky.
    1. On a cut excess protein will be broken down for energy if you cut carbs and fat symultaneously. Because it has a nitrogen molecule attached which is ammonia it is very toxic for human body especially the blood. So this is a NO NO. Keep protein around 200g if you happen to eat a steak or something dont worry if you hit 300g on occasions it's all good.
    2. DONT climb up the carbs keep them around 100g, Climb the fat up. At this point saturated fat will do the trick like butter, chesse, coconut. Also if you still short add extra vergin olive oil.
    3.NO, cuting energy sources will trigger your body into starvation mode which will start a cascade of hormons to be released many which you dont want.
    Keto will work but low carb is just as good. Ketogenesis will happen on a low carb diet especially if you keep carbs around 50-100g. DOnt worry about ketogenesis it will happen on it's own as a result of the low carb diet.

    Dont second guess yourself, Im giving the right advice just do it. If you have issues hit me with a PM or something and I will discuss it further. I know is hard to get your head around eating fat but as Jiigzz said the myth of fat intake making you fat is just a myth and has been debunked many time over and I personally been on a low carb diet for a long time. It works.
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    Thank you guys for the responses, im definitely going to ensure I eat post 100g fats every day I am more than converted. I do about 40-45 minutes of LIIS a day, around the 135 heart rate which burns off 500 calories on average. I was actually wondering if there is any kind of stats which show how your body burns carbs? for instance will 500 calories burnt be 125g of carbs? Or will it incorporate fat too,etc
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    LISS will usually eat primarily at fat stores after a certain point in the excercise. As exercise intensity increases, so too does the relience of glucose as a fuel. BUT, and this is a huge but; do not confuse total volume of fat burned with proportion of fat burned. Just because LISS burns a higher proportion of fat as fuel, it actually burns fat at a much lower volume than that of HIIT. HIIT primarily runs on the glycolytic system (as it requires intense intensity over short periods of time) so the proportion of glucose to fat burned is greater however the total volume of fat burned during HIIT is higher.
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    Thank you for the info. I have football( soccer) later tonight for an hour and that is pure HIIT so I expect ill smash some fat off then after my shoulder workout. I get this in at least 2/3 times a week. HIIT I read has a great afterburn effect so I guess I need to step it up.

    Everyone tells me " lift heavy and eat at a -500 calorie deficit", ive been doing that and the scales hardly move. I dropped the carbs rapidly, upped the cardio while still lifting and the scales actually move quickly.
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    Just a little info though, when you drop carbs, the weight you notice moving in the first week or so will mostly be water weight as carbs retain water. So when you drop carbs your body is more likely to get rid of water alot quicker and the scales can drop down deceptively fast. Stay hydrated
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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah View Post
    Thank you for the info. I have football( soccer) later tonight for an hour and that is pure HIIT so I expect ill smash some fat off then after my shoulder workout. I get this in at least 2/3 times a week. HIIT I read has a great afterburn effect so I guess I need to step it up.

    Everyone tells me " lift heavy and eat at a -500 calorie deficit", ive been doing that and the scales hardly move. I dropped the carbs rapidly, upped the cardio while still lifting and the scales actually move quickly.
    When you lift at the gym dont worry about how much you lift and concentrate more on being there no more than 30-40min or less than 1 hour tops. Lift with 60sec between sets and keep it moving throughout. Start with a lighter weight and increase the weight every set by a little to force your body to respond to the added stress for around 10 reps. If you feel hungry increase fat give you body the energy it needs to recover, dont worry you will find a balance and start dropping the body fat just dont starve yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braxbrah View Post
    Thank you guys for the responses, im definitely going to ensure I eat post 100g fats every day I am more than converted. I do about 40-45 minutes of LIIS a day, around the 135 heart rate which burns off 500 calories on average. I was actually wondering if there is any kind of stats which show how your body burns carbs? for instance will 500 calories burnt be 125g of carbs? Or will it incorporate fat too,etc
    Dont worry about all this, calories in calories out is a not a good measure of how your body burns fat. Your body will burn fat for fuel going forward along with some gulcose at times.
    You might need to increase fat to 150g or even higher if you body requies it based on your physical activity. So dont get stuck on eating only 100g. Stop counting calories it will not work
    Just keep carbs low and once a week have a meal with anything you want including carbs.
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    Sounds a lot like what happened to me a while ago after a really hard cut that went on for a prolonged amount of time. Lifting 4x/week and a lot of cardio + severe calorie restriction = overtraining. I had overtraining syndrome so bad my test was shutdown, I got night sweats, disturbed sleep, severe muscle twitches when I was trying to fall asleep. Felt hot constantly and had absolutely no energy at all.

    Take a couple weeks off, take some DAA with L-DOPA and Erase, or Lecheek's got their AD-3 which will cover both of those, and eat a little above maintenance. Don't worry about losing a little bit of progress in a couple of weeks, you will make much better progress if you get your hpta back on track.

    When you get back to the gym, don't lift heavy every time, and don't go balls out with your cardio every time. Do intensity waves so you give your body a break. When you're done cutting and you eat more then you can up the intensity as you're body has an easier time recovering.

    Hope this helps you out!!
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    I have been running bioforge which is a natural test booster I am on my final bottle of it now so itll be te a full 12 week cycle, im thinking its probably not a good idea to use the above straight away? Biofroge doesnt require a PCT or anything like that for those that don't know.
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    I just looked at the ingredient profile and I wouldn't be concerned about starting the above protocol asap. There are no ingredients in bioforge that are contained in my suggestion above. For the DAA I usually will run it 3 weeks on 1 week off as the studies suggest it loses effectiveness after week 2. DAA is PROVEN to increase LH, so make sure to use an AI and a L-DOPA product to maximize the amount the LH will stimulate test instead of prolactin and stop the increasing test levels from aromitizing into estrogen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny
    I just looked at the ingredient profile and I wouldn't be concerned about starting the above protocol asap. There are no ingredients in bioforge that are contained in my suggestion above. For the DAA I usually will run it 3 weeks on 1 week off as the studies suggest it loses effectiveness after week 2. DAA is PROVEN to increase LH, so make sure to use an AI and a L-DOPA product to maximize the amount the LH will stimulate test instead of prolactin and stop the increasing test levels from aromitizing into estrogen.
    Didn't know that! Study please?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny
    I just looked at the ingredient profile and I wouldn't be concerned about starting the above protocol asap. There are no ingredients in bioforge that are contained in my suggestion above. For the DAA I usually will run it 3 weeks on 1 week off as the studies suggest it loses effectiveness after week 2. DAA is PROVEN to increase LH, so make sure to use an AI and a L-DOPA product to maximize the amount the LH will stimulate test instead of prolactin and stop the increasing test levels from aromitizing into estrogen.
    I have read that daa doesn't even start to kick in until the second week, hence why ai use typically starts after week 2
  

  
 

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