Casein Importance

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    Casein Importance


    I just started reading these forums so please correct me if I am wrong. I am seeing many people discount the benefits of casein protein before bed. I currently work with nutritionists and professional bodybuilders and every single bodybuilder takes some kind of slow digesting protein before bed. I read an article on here that said your body will be digesting the casein and using energy which will impact your gains. This almost made me laugh. Your body needs fuel 24/7 to work, even in sleep. If you do not have fuel, it uses other means to fuel itself, AKA your muscle/fat. Casein provides that fuel for your muscles to continue to build all throughout the night. Not eating before bed is just the same as not eating during the day. Without that protein you are in a sense reducing your gains. I am in no way saying that casein is the ONLY thing you should eat before bed, but slower digesting things are preferred unless you want to wake up in the middle of the night and eat. Please feel free to comment on your experiences with casein.

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    Yeah I've been taking casein or eating cottage cheese before bed for about 5 months now... Definitely noticed my muscles are a lot fuller since then and I also seem leaner. I'm actually a bit lost without it...

    Im like a child addicted to warm milk before bed now! :-P
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    So I take it that youre not a fan of lean gains/ intermittent fasting? That thinking is based on the notion that significant muscle breakdown doesnt occur for up to 24-48 hours of fasting.
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    So the way I'm understanding that is that I can only eat every other day and still gain muscle because it won't break down for 24 hours? If so, sounds a bit silly to me
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    Caesin is not needed.. Hit your macros for the day is all that you should be worried about. Get it from any protein at night & it dosen't have to be caesin.
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    drinkin casein before bed just makes me piss all night-hense lose sleep which is probably more detrimental, real food is better in my experience
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    You could also try half a scoop of casein in 250g of cottage cheese before bed so you get the benefit of whole foods. Thats one of my favorite pre bed meals.

    I'll drink just casein if i am cutting though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauxy View Post
    I just started reading these forums so please correct me if I am wrong. I am seeing many people discount the benefits of casein protein before bed. I currently work with nutritionists and professional bodybuilders and every single bodybuilder takes some kind of slow digesting protein before bed. I read an article on here that said your body will be digesting the casein and using energy which will impact your gains. This almost made me laugh. Your body needs fuel 24/7 to work, even in sleep. If you do not have fuel, it uses other means to fuel itself, AKA your muscle/fat. Casein provides that fuel for your muscles to continue to build all throughout the night. Not eating before bed is just the same as not eating during the day. Without that protein you are in a sense reducing your gains. I am in no way saying that casein is the ONLY thing you should eat before bed, but slower digesting things are preferred unless you want to wake up in the middle of the night and eat. Please feel free to comment on your experiences with casein.

    This is extreme reductionism/simplification of a very complex system. There are a multitude of hormones that regulate "fuel" in the blood stream. Further, the free amino acid pool does not dissapear, nor does it start breaking down "expensive" muscle proteins for specific amino acids when it does run low.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by XGabrielEdgeX View Post
    Caesin is not needed.. Hit your macros for the day is all that you should be worried about. Get it from any protein at night & it dosen't have to be caesin.
    As long as it's slow digesting, it could be anything tbh. Or even fast digesting proteins, if you wanna wake up and eat.
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    i cannot believe that people are so obtuse and delusional to believe that you have to constantly be eating to gain muscle.

    it's absurd and isn't backed by any shred of evidence. our bodies don't need a constant stream of nutrients. if that was the case, we wouldn't have an intestines, and we wouldn't store nutrients. OUR BODIES AREN'T A FUEL TANK. we don't simply put a certain amount in, and so many hours or miles go by and it's gone.

    i GAIN MUSCLE AND STRENGTH not eating for 20 hours and lifting on a completely empty stomach.


    it is fact. it is repeatable as well.

    i cannot believe i dignified this thoughtless, half-baked thread with a response.
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    Yeah, thats why i brought up the lean gains protocol... I mean, to each their own, but before you start agonizing about how much of which protein to take before bed, you should know theres a growing group of bodybuilders that are getting more and more ripped and are fasting up to 24 hours at a time. These are the people that would see breaking a fast before bed, as opposed to starting it, as detrimental to tgat day's "burn". There is dcience behind it as well, insulin sensitivity being a big one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDiocre View Post
    Yeah, thats why i brought up the lean gains protocol... I mean, to each their own, but before you start agonizing about how much of which protein to take before bed, you should know theres a growing group of bodybuilders that are getting more and more ripped and are fasting up to 24 hours at a time. These are the people that would see breaking a fast before bed, as opposed to starting it, as detrimental to tgat day's "burn". There is dcience behind it as well, insulin sensitivity being a big one.
    I've seen a lot of published research in animal models or obese/diabetic/sedentary subjects. Are you aware of any semi-chronic studies examining the effects of IF on fit subjects? Might be a good future research project at my next appoointment seeing as it is becoming more and more popular, and seems to have quite a bit of anecdotal evidence behind it.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    i cannot believe that people are so obtuse and delusional to believe that you have to constantly be eating to gain muscle.

    it's absurd and isn't backed by any shred of evidence. our bodies don't need a constant stream of nutrients. if that was the case, we wouldn't have an intestines, and we wouldn't store nutrients. OUR BODIES AREN'T A FUEL TANK. we don't simply put a certain amount in, and so many hours or miles go by and it's gone.

    i GAIN MUSCLE AND STRENGTH not eating for 20 hours and lifting on a completely empty stomach.


    it is fact. it is repeatable as well.

    i cannot believe i dignified this thoughtless, half-baked thread with a response.
    Wait...You mean the people selling me protein supplements are lying to me?...Who would've thought it!.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Wait...You mean the people selling me protein supplements are lying to me?...Who would've thought it!.
    my nitrotech said to consume directly after my workout, need less to say i went from small tshirts to XL in 3 weeks....thanks muscletech!
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    i take casein before bed and whey in the middle of the night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindMuscle12 View Post
    i take casein before bed and whey in the middle of the night.


    lol years ago i used to wake up in the middle of the night and drink a shake.

    that was ridiculous and hilarious
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech

    my nitrotech said to consume directly after my workout, need less to say i went from small tshirts to XL in 3 weeks....thanks muscletech!
    Haha.. All you need is celltech ;-)
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    Before one month i was looked too fat but when i started take Protein shakes in my diet and also take it after workout, then Gradually My fat has been decrease..Now present I looking slim body...
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    Quote Originally Posted by garnislitton View Post
    Before one month i was looked too fat but when i started take Protein shakes in my diet and also take it after workout, then Gradually My fat has been decrease..Now present I looking slim body...

    Where are how did you take them? IV?. How do you eat your SPAM?. Do you mix it with your protein shakes?. Do you take the protein shakes rectally?.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone

    Where are how did you take them? IV?. How do you eat your SPAM?. Do you mix it with your protein shakes?. Do you take the protein shakes rectally?.
    Haha wtf? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    lol years ago i used to wake up in the middle of the night and drink a shake.

    that was ridiculous and hilarious
    Bro, seriously bro you're muscles are wasting away. Bro you gotta have slow protein when you sleep. Bro the body works by having a steady supply of protein. That casein protein is slow acting bro. It keeps the aminos coming while you're out bro. I wake up every two hours and down some more bro. Muscle breakdown is happening bro. Look at Native Americans bro. They weren't getting that casein in and now look at them. Very few bro. And most of them aren't real strong bro.
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    If youre really worried about casein just eat some cottage cheese before bed.

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    I've got a tub of casein and I will probably not be buying another. I prefer to get my protein from food and since I've been dealing in this way I have personally put on more weight than I was ever able to do with all of the supps that they were pushing on me in high school. If I need more casein I'll just drink a bunch of milk before bed!
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    bump
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    Why not just eat what you feel like if it fits in for last meal,saying if you like turkey and cottage cheese eat that or i friggin hunk of cheese and some broccoli,i know what i like and that works for "me"tried about everything but as for "me"seems 2oz low fat chedder/2oz turkey some califlower and almonds or walnuts does the trick.

    I change from night to night so i dont get bored,cottage/casien shake/whole eggs,cheese,ect..eat want you want and live.you know(or will find)what works best for "you"and that you like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I've seen a lot of published research in animal models or obese/diabetic/sedentary subjects. Are you aware of any semi-chronic studies examining the effects of IF on fit subjects? Might be a good future research project at my next appoointment seeing as it is becoming more and more popular, and seems to have quite a bit of anecdotal evidence behind it.

    Br
    Id love to know the outcome of any research if you do conduct any.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    This is extreme reductionism/simplification of a very complex system. There are a multitude of hormones that regulate "fuel" in the blood stream. Further, the free amino acid pool does not dissapear, nor does it start breaking down "expensive" muscle proteins for specific amino acids when it does run low.

    Br
    God, thank you. So many people seem to overanalyze one system without understanding that it's all about "give and take." The worst culprit on this forum being insulin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Id love to know the outcome of any research if you do conduct any.
    Sure, I'll have some preliminary results regarding the effects of betaine on strength, muscle gain, and body composition (in a well trained population) in a few weeks.

    Br
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    Casein is awesome for making protein brownies. There's a funny tutorial on how it's done, by Scivation, on youtube
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    it has it place, but think about lean gains and IF protocols. That's way more time than just sleep ie 16+ without a meal and no ill effects there so....... If you need it for macro's go for it, otherwise it's effect are negligible IMO. Now if you're pro than i guess that's a different story.
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    From what I've read Casein promotes the growth of cancer. Personally I don't consume it in supplement form for this reason. I will enjoy some raw cheese once in a while though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skunkman
    From what I've read Casein promotes the growth of cancer. Personally I don't consume it in supplement form for this reason. I will enjoy some raw cheese once in a while though.
    So does being in the sun. Do you avoid the outdoors to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2542

    So does being in the sun. Do you avoid the outdoors to?
    I love the outdoors but I'm not going to go strip naked and bake myself in the sun for hours everyday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skunkman

    I love the outdoors but I'm not going to go strip naked and bake myself in the sun for hours everyday.
    I also have to brig up cell phones. I'm not bashing our decision because i don't use casein either I just don't understand the reasoning. Do you ever talk on a cell phone?

    I've honestly come to the conclusion that everything causes cancer and there is no escaping it. But I almost feel like (prepare for the broscience) if it promotes the growth of cancer then it would make sense that ( and no I'm not implying that the human body makes sense) it promotes the growth of other cells also. So I can't imagine it promoting cancer growth more than anything else that I ingest. Inb4studies
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    Quote Originally Posted by skunkman View Post
    From what I've read Casein promotes the growth of cancer. Personally I don't consume it in supplement form for this reason. I will enjoy some raw cheese once in a while though.
    Link to study?
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    Obviously the study was done on rats that were also administered aflatoxins, but for me its enough reason to not go out of my way to make it a huge part of my diet considering the amount of environmental toxins the typical American is exposed to.
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    In rats (as are most studies) so not necessarily relevant to humans. Based on high protein not necessarily the casein. Therefore it is concluded that protein promotes cancer growth. Do you avoid all proteins then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2542 View Post
    In rats (as are most studies) so not necessarily relevant to humans. Based on high protein not necessarily the casein. Therefore it is concluded that protein promotes cancer growth. Do you avoid all proteins then?
    It doesn't mention what the rest of the diet consisted of in that excerpt but the protein source was specifically casein, that fluctuated between %5-%20 of their diet. It would be nice to have the whole study to further examine the rest of the diet but I do not have them.

    To answer your question no I do not avoid all protein, but I do try and keep it at .8-.9 grams per pound.
  

  
 

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