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nicotine and lifting

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    nicotine and lifting


    I have read a lot of articles about this and non give a definite answer. So here it is, before/during,and after is chewing tabacco a bad idea if so what is the timeframe before/after workouts. I know it restricts blood flow to certain areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Thank you!
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    So there are zero negatives to non-smoke/dip use of nicotene (i.e. e-cig/gum/patch) when it comes to health/fitness other than the obvious addictive quality of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast View Post
    So there are zero negatives to non-smoke/dip use of nicotene (i.e. e-cig/gum/patch) when it comes to health/fitness other than the obvious addictive quality of it?

    ManBeast
    Well from a smokeless tabacco user I can tell you there are many negatives to it, but from this article for the lifting part no, thanks again this was by far the most helpful the other 5-6 were basically people arguing back and forth
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    I posted this in another thread a few days ago. These are just the endocrine effects of nicotine and how they may effect lifting performance......

    I can't find the post, so I'll quickly recap.

    First, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. So it may reduce blood flow/circulation.

    But, theres a lot more negatives that affect muscle gain than just that. Read on..................

    Nicotine also effects the hypothalamus-pituitary axis.
    Nicotine stimulates the release of ACTH (adrenal corticotropic hormone..which increases cortisol release).
    Acute nicotine consumption stimulates prolactin levels.
    And nicotine increases the hormone arginine vasopressin, which may in part be while nicotine acts as a vasoconstrictor.

    Next, Nicotine acts on the adrenal axis, stimulating the production and release of glucocorticoids (cortisol).
    Nicotine also stimulates an increase in epinephrine (adrenalin).
    While these hormones are good during exercise, post exercise they delay the recovery process (i.e: inhibit protein and glycogen synthesis).
    Additionally, nicotine stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, furthering the rise in catecholamines (adrenalin), and increased heart rate and vasoconstriction.

    While smoking does not seem to affect total testosterone, it does increase estradiol and SHGB (thus, may reduce free test). It also seems to decrease sperm motility.

    One of the chemicals in smoke (thiocynates) inhibits thyroid production; however the effects of cigarettes on the thyroid is a bit confusing. Some studies have shown increased thyroid hormone production while others have shown reduce...and yet, some have shown to effect at all. Either way, correct thyroid levels are important to muscle building as too much or too few will reduce protein synthesis.

    Smoking may also affect beta cells in the pancreas, especially in men. Smoking has been shown to promote insulin resistance, either by affecting insulin producing cells or via elevated stress hormones, or both.
    And as you may or may not know, insulin signalling is one of the most anabolic events in our bodies.

    Finally, cigarette smoking reduces gastric emptying time. The reason many drink a shake post workout is to deliver protein and cho quickly into the blood stream to signal protein synthesis, recovery, and growth. So, smoking may reduce the "window of opportunity".



    Br
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    ^ smoking as in cigarettes and the accompanying carcinogens and toxins.

    Pure nicotine has shown to have anti-estrogenic effects.

    Aromatase inhibitors in cigarette smoke, tobacco leaves and other plants.
    Osawa Y, Tochigi B, Tochigi M, Ohnishi S, Watanabe Y, Bullion K, Osawa G, Nakabayashi Y, Yarborough C.

    Nicotine, cotinine, and anabasine inhibit aromatase in human trophoblast in vitro.
    Barbieri RL, Gochberg J, Ryan KJ.

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    ^ smoking as in cigarettes and the accompanying carcinogens and toxins.

    Pure nicotine has shown to have anti-estrogenic effects.

    Aromatase inhibitors in cigarette smoke, tobacco leaves and other plants.
    Osawa Y, Tochigi B, Tochigi M, Ohnishi S, Watanabe Y, Bullion K, Osawa G, Nakabayashi Y, Yarborough C.

    Nicotine, cotinine, and anabasine inhibit aromatase in human trophoblast in vitro.
    Barbieri RL, Gochberg J, Ryan KJ.

    -Matt
    Ok, and that could explain the effects of nicotine on damaging blood lipids, since physiological levels of E2 are important for a number of reasons.

    Still, its the nicotine that causes an increase in stress hormones, not the carcinogens in cigarette smoke.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I posted this in another thread a few days ago. These are just the endocrine effects of nicotine and how they may effect lifting performance......

    I can't find the post, so I'll quickly recap.

    First, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. So it may reduce blood flow/circulation.

    But, theres a lot more negatives that affect muscle gain than just that. Read on..................

    Nicotine also effects the hypothalamus-pituitary axis.
    Nicotine stimulates the release of ACTH (adrenal corticotropic hormone..which increases cortisol release).
    Acute nicotine consumption stimulates prolactin levels.
    And nicotine increases the hormone arginine vasopressin, which may in part be while nicotine acts as a vasoconstrictor.

    Next, Nicotine acts on the adrenal axis, stimulating the production and release of glucocorticoids (cortisol).
    Nicotine also stimulates an increase in epinephrine (adrenalin).
    While these hormones are good during exercise, post exercise they delay the recovery process (i.e: inhibit protein and glycogen synthesis).
    Additionally, nicotine stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, furthering the rise in catecholamines (adrenalin), and increased heart rate and vasoconstriction.

    While smoking does not seem to affect total testosterone, it does increase estradiol and SHGB (thus, may reduce free test). It also seems to decrease sperm motility.

    One of the chemicals in smoke (thiocynates) inhibits thyroid production; however the effects of cigarettes on the thyroid is a bit confusing. Some studies have shown increased thyroid hormone production while others have shown reduce...and yet, some have shown to effect at all. Either way, correct thyroid levels are important to muscle building as too much or too few will reduce protein synthesis.

    Smoking may also affect beta cells in the pancreas, especially in men. Smoking has been shown to promote insulin resistance, either by affecting insulin producing cells or via elevated stress hormones, or both.
    And as you may or may not know, insulin signalling is one of the most anabolic events in our bodies.

    Finally, cigarette smoking reduces gastric emptying time. The reason many drink a shake post workout is to deliver protein and cho quickly into the blood stream to signal protein synthesis, recovery, and growth. So, smoking may reduce the "window of opportunity".



    Br
    I actually read this it was. Nicotine vs diet I think? It became a argument thread lol
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    I use nicotine ONLY when dieting for a show and ONLY during final 6 weeks when I am super low on bf%

    It helps my mood from increase in dopamine and also helps satiate me while non-stop hungry.

    If you have enough hormone in blood --- the cortisol effect is liberating fatty acids into blood stream for oxidation.

    Definitely not "good" but when dieting for bodybuilding contests -- realistically NOTHING is good nor healthy at that level.

    Wrote this while buzzing on 4mg nicotine pre-contest -- The Power of Nicotine for Getting Lean

    -
    Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    I use nicotine ONLY when dieting for a show and ONLY during final 6 weeks when I am super low on bf%

    It helps my mood from increase in dopamine and also helps satiate me while non-stop hungry.

    If you have enough hormone in blood --- the cortisol effect is liberating fatty acids into blood stream for oxidation.

    Definitely not "good" but when dieting for bodybuilding contests -- realistically NOTHING is good nor healthy at that level.

    Wrote this while buzzing on 4mg nicotine pre-contest -- The Power of Nicotine for Getting Lean

    -[/URL]Matt

    Another great article thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    I use nicotine ONLY when dieting for a show and ONLY during final 6 weeks when I am super low on bf%

    It helps my mood from increase in dopamine and also helps satiate me while non-stop hungry.

    If you have enough hormone in blood --- the cortisol effect is liberating fatty acids into blood stream for oxidation.

    Definitely not "good" but when dieting for bodybuilding contests -- realistically NOTHING is good nor healthy at that level.

    Wrote this while buzzing on 4mg nicotine pre-contest -- The Power of Nicotine for Getting Lean

    -
    Matt
    My issue with this article is your discussion of brown adipose tissue. BAT is not abundant in humans. In fact, the little that adults have and the amount it contributes to decreasing body fat is minimal. These cells burn off the fat located in them to produce heat, specifically during and when waking up from hibernation, or when facing a cold stress. Under times of caloric deficit, or when epi and/or cort is high, BAT does not take up fats and oxidize it as say, a skeletal muscle would.

    My main concern with nicotine is the adrenal fatigue and the chronic elevations in cortisol. Acute cortisol spike during exercise is good. This liberates fuel. Chronic elevations in cort at rest are not good. This blunts protein synthesis, reduces glucose uptake, promotes insulin resistance, and hurts nutrient partitioning and body composition.

    So nicotine reduces your appetite. Big deal.

    Exercise some self control. Own your bull**** and change your behavior.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpol
    I have read a lot of articles about this and non give a definite answer. So here it is, before/during,and after is chewing tabacco a bad idea if so what is the timeframe before/after workouts. I know it restricts blood flow to certain areas.
    To help answer part of your question...

    Assuming that you have an addiction and are not currently wanting to quit (like myself) I would recommend not using chew or smoking for at least 15 min prior and post exercise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    To help answer part of your question...

    Assuming that you have an addiction and are not currently wanting to quit (like myself) I would recommend not using chew or smoking for at least 15 min prior and post exercise.
    why?? do you feel like you do better if theres low nicotine in your blood?


    i always smoke right before i hit the gym..in some cases chain smoke 2 cigs on the way..always one after my post WO protein shake too..sooo satisfying. its one of the only bad habbits i still have left. gave up drinking a year and a half ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I posted this in another thread a few days ago. These are just the endocrine effects of nicotine and how they may effect lifting performance......

    I can't find the post, so I'll quickly recap.

    First, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor. So it may reduce blood flow/circulation.

    But, theres a lot more negatives that affect muscle gain than just that. Read on..................

    Nicotine also effects the hypothalamus-pituitary axis.
    Nicotine stimulates the release of ACTH (adrenal corticotropic hormone..which increases cortisol release).
    Acute nicotine consumption stimulates prolactin levels.
    And nicotine increases the hormone arginine vasopressin, which may in part be while nicotine acts as a vasoconstrictor.

    Next, Nicotine acts on the adrenal axis, stimulating the production and release of glucocorticoids (cortisol).
    Nicotine also stimulates an increase in epinephrine (adrenalin).
    While these hormones are good during exercise, post exercise they delay the recovery process (i.e: inhibit protein and glycogen synthesis).
    Additionally, nicotine stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, furthering the rise in catecholamines (adrenalin), and increased heart rate and vasoconstriction.

    While smoking does not seem to affect total testosterone, it does increase estradiol and SHGB (thus, may reduce free test). It also seems to decrease sperm motility.

    One of the chemicals in smoke (thiocynates) inhibits thyroid production; however the effects of cigarettes on the thyroid is a bit confusing. Some studies have shown increased thyroid hormone production while others have shown reduce...and yet, some have shown to effect at all. Either way, correct thyroid levels are important to muscle building as too much or too few will reduce protein synthesis.

    Smoking may also affect beta cells in the pancreas, especially in men. Smoking has been shown to promote insulin resistance, either by affecting insulin producing cells or via elevated stress hormones, or both.
    And as you may or may not know, insulin signalling is one of the most anabolic events in our bodies.

    Finally, cigarette smoking reduces gastric emptying time. The reason many drink a shake post workout is to deliver protein and cho quickly into the blood stream to signal protein synthesis, recovery, and growth. So, smoking may reduce the "window of opportunity".



    Br
    Great posts.I agree with you completely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpol View Post
    I actually read this it was. Nicotine vs diet I think? It became a argument thread lol
    Yes, I agree with you completely, that is the purpose of this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    My issue with this article is your discussion of brown adipose tissue. BAT is not abundant in humans. In fact, the little that adults have and the amount it contributes to decreasing body fat is minimal. These cells burn off the fat located in them to produce heat, specifically during and when waking up from hibernation, or when facing a cold stress. Under times of caloric deficit, or when epi and/or cort is high, BAT does not take up fats and oxidize it as say, a skeletal muscle would.

    My main concern with nicotine is the adrenal fatigue and the chronic elevations in cortisol. Acute cortisol spike during exercise is good. This liberates fuel. Chronic elevations in cort at rest are not good. This blunts protein synthesis, reduces glucose uptake, promotes insulin resistance, and hurts nutrient partitioning and body composition.

    So nicotine reduces your appetite. Big deal.

    Exercise some self control. Own your bull**** and change your behavior.

    Br
    The half-life is 60 minutes or so --- so it wont be a chronic issue.

    "most" who are dieting to extreme levels are assisted by anabolic agents which keep anabolism high and catabolism low.

    Also -- most who are dieting to extreme levels take caffeine and beta 2 agonist which also add to the effects of nicotine.

    Not recommending it, I just do not see it as bad as people make it out to be. If you use it INfrequently in LOW doses w/ the right compounds it can aid in satiation, thermogenesis and mild aromatase control.

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    The half-life is 60 minutes or so --- so it wont be a chronic issue.

    "most" who are dieting to extreme levels are assisted by anabolic agents which keep anabolism high and catabolism low.

    Also -- most who are dieting to extreme levels take caffeine and beta 2 agonist which also add to the effects of nicotine.

    Not recommending it, I just do not see it as bad as people make it out to be. If you use it INfrequently in LOW doses w/ the right compounds it can aid in satiation, thermogenesis and mild aromatase control.

    -Matt
    Ok, so we are getting closer to the same page. I agree it has its uses, you (seem) to agree that it can have negatives.

    I wouldn't quantify most people who are dieting to extreme levels (i.e: bodybuilders) as using anabolic agents, however. There are still a large portion of people who compete naturally.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    I use nicotine ONLY when dieting for a show and ONLY during final 6 weeks when I am super low on bf%

    It helps my mood from increase in dopamine and also helps satiate me while non-stop hungry.

    If you have enough hormone in blood --- the cortisol effect is liberating fatty acids into blood stream for oxidation.

    Definitely not "good" but when dieting for bodybuilding contests -- realistically NOTHING is good nor healthy at that level.

    Wrote this while buzzing on 4mg nicotine pre-contest -- The Power of Nicotine for Getting Lean

    -
    Matt
    Who taught you this?
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    sub'd interesting subject
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eberly View Post
    Who taught you this?
    I believe I was experimenting with this in 2003, back when bromocriptine and leptin was a huge topic.

    I tried the nicotine snuff that you'd snort intra nasally but hated that --- then tried the gum and it worked nicely.

    -Matt
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    The half-life is 60 minutes or so --- so it wont be a chronic issue. "most" who are dieting to extreme levels are assisted by anabolic agents which keep anabolism high and catabolism low. Also -- most who are dieting to extreme levels take caffeine and beta 2 agonist which also add to the effects of nicotine. Not recommending it, I just do not see it as bad as people make it out to be. If you use it INfrequently in LOW doses w/ the right compounds it can aid in satiation, thermogenesis and mild aromatase control. -Matt
    Digging this one out of the grave. I have some questions, so would chewing on a 4mg piece of gum during training be beneficial as to a stimulant effect? And would adding say a 2mg piece of gum with 12.5 mg of ephedrine and 100mg of caffeine provide a mild nootropic effect for studying? U said they work together so I was just curious. I don't use stims to often so that's why I suggested the half doses of all those substancea
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoupNaziNazi View Post
    Digging this one out of the grave. I have some questions, so would chewing on a 4mg piece of gum during training be beneficial as to a stimulant effect? And would adding say a 2mg piece of gum with 12.5 mg of ephedrine and 100mg of caffeine provide a mild nootropic effect for studying? U said they work together so I was just curious. I don't use stims to often so that's why I suggested the half doses of all those substancea
    Wikipedia says 2mg pieces provide 1mg nicotine and the 4mg ones provide 3mg nicotine.

    "One milligram of nicotine has a pronounced thermogenic effect, which can be increased by ≈100% by adding 100 mg caffeine. Increasing the nicotine dose to 2 mg does not increase the thermogenic effect but produces side effects in most subjects. " http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/77/6/1442.long

    As for nootropic effect: Nicotine treatment of mild cognitive impairment
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    Great thread!
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    So would am ephedrine, caffeine, and nicotine stack be pretty sick for fat loss? Maybe 25/200/4? And if so would that be effective at only one dose in the morning or 2 doses a day?
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    I generally dose ECA 3-4 times a day. I would probably do 2mg nicotine twice a day - possibly with the second and fourth dose of ECA or somesuch (my first dose is before breakfast).
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    Solid, thanks for the reply
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    Does anyone know if cutting a piece of nicotine gum in half would ruin the half ur saving for later?
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    Probably not
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